Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[d0zer]

I guess it's the whole "here's why this is unfeasible in the real world" shenanigans.

I don't get engrossed in fantasy only to have reality come and crash my party

[wufwugy]

im sorry, i didnt consider it much party crashing. lots of stuff has to be taken for granted with almost every fiction, i understand this. i do think the geography stuff sticks out interestingly, but not importantly

im like a cross between the most pragmatic yet most imaginary person. no stories are as enjoyable as a good fantasy or scifi, but when the logistics are off, i tend to notice it


o btw, a big ice wall couldnt exist, dragons arent real, and pregnant ladies dont give birth to wraiths

[d0zer]

pregnant ladies dont give birth to wraiths

you don't KNOW that, man

[wufwugy]

do u have a kid or something?

[boost]

Why can't the ice wall exist?

[wufwugy]

lol

have you seen the size of that thing? im not sure our world has anything even 1/10th the size not backed by natural geological rock/ice formations

The Wall is pretty much something that was created way back when, in magical times forgotten, but I guess it could be real if it was mostly stone like used in Giza and China's Great Wall.

Doesn't really matter though. My nittery is really only about superficial aspects of generalizations

hey i found an old gif of arya (look to the first split second of it, total arya)












but if you wanted to get SUPER nitty you could go on about how the wall is too slender to be real. reality would require a sort of ascending base/structure to build in the first place. but then all sorts of nittery apperas like OMG THEYRE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS OMG.. NED STARK ISNT REALL HOW CAN YOU BEVLEIE THIS TRASH OMG

ive been drinking eff why eye. i also wanna poke my gif right in the boobie. should probably change it, but cant. needs to be poked

[boost]

ha, you are a strange one, that's for sure.

Pykrete - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[d0zer]

Why can't the ice wall exist?

ffs boost stfu, it's badass to have an ICE WALL. Let's just say some fucking Eskimo mason wizards cast the spell of hot piss melting snow to solidify up a bunch of superice that will keep blue glowing eyed monsters the eff out.

[boost]

ffs boost stfu, it's badass to have an ICE WALL. Let's just say some fucking Eskimo mason wizards cast the spell of hot piss melting snow to solidify up a bunch of superice that will keep blue glowing eyed monsters the eff out.

huh? I wasn't nitting, I was asking what the basis for wuf's nitting was.

[d0zer]

I'm not really seriously hating on the nitting, I nit from time to time...just f'n around, trying to lighten the mood after the shitshow that was the last couple pages

[bikes]

Angry face is my favorite ftr emoticon.

[BennyLaRue]

I'm sure you're half joking, but the world GRRM created is clearly a heavily Anglo-centric world view. Westeros is essentially mainland Britain but 10x the size. People from the north even tend to have Scottish accents.

Well, I did just want to suggest the Starks are Canadians, but Westeros is probably more of a amalgam of the Western world than strictly North America or England, what with a frozen North and a hot South that's reminiscent of Spain or the Southern US.

[boost]

dranger, I haven't used +/- reps since like a week after the system was implemented. You are the exception.

[bikes]

stop being a cunt dranger.

[dranger7070]

Cant make me stop daaaaaawg.

[dranger7070]

dranger, I haven't used +/- reps since like a week after the system was implemented. You are the exception.

WHY SO SERIOUS BRO?

Black man rage is so cute, especially since its over a tv show lololololololololol

[bikes]

Banned 24h starting when I wake up.

[a500lbgorilla]

If dranger were in GoT, he'd be Hodor's dong.

[wufwugy]

did i miss some spoilerts?

[d0zer]

bikes deleted a bunch of dranger posts, including one where he said I was the greatest thing to happen to this thread and that I was more handsome than jamie lannister

[wufwugy]

[d0zer]

lol amazing

[boost]

I didn't see any actual spoilers that he posted recently, but he was just being a complete douche, making light of the idea that someone actually cares about not being spoiled.

There's very little that I would actually get mad about online... but spoiling something is not an insult, it can't be taken back, and it can't be forgotten. So, ya, tv shows and movies are serious business.

on another note, new sig is awesome wuf, I want to pee all up in her butt.

edit: actually he did do some borderline stuff, by giving the thumbs up to someone's specific speculation. That is exactly what book readers should not be doing.

[wufwugy]

[bikes]

A+

[boost]

The costume design on Stannis in that scene is impeccable. Balon's get-up was pretty nifty too. Whoever is in charge of this is really nailing it.

[d0zer]

Angry face is my favorite ftr emoticon.

angryface is the new period to end a sentence

[d0zer]

The costume design on Stannis in that scene is impeccable. Balon's get-up was pretty nifty too. Whoever is in charge of this is really nailing it.

they're doon' this shit right imo. After years and years of horrible tv fantasy we finally get some fucking quality.

Hey boost!

Guess what...? I haven't read the books, but I have skimmed the wiki pages for the next few books to find out what happens with a few plots.

How does that make you feel?

[boost]

That's cool. I mean, I kinda cringe at the thought of self spoiling. Reading the books is one thing, you are enjoying the same story in a different medium... But cliffs or wiki'ing seems like you're getting the gist, but missing out on a lot. To each his own though.

But if you mean, how do I feel about you posting in this thread while having that knowledge... I couldn't care less, because I assume you are intelligent enough to not drop spoilers, and if someone points out how a post of yours could imply certain future events, you wouldn't get defensive and then post more spoilers.

cliffs: you are a mature(ok, maybe not, but you know what I'm saying) person who can handle the responsibility of not spoiling the rest of us.

[d0zer]

I mean, I kinda cringe at the thought of self spoiling.

Oh yeah, that's the stuff...

[wufwugy]

If Sansa doesn't murder Joffrey, I'm gonna be so damn pissed.

Her story is probably the best subplot of the whole show, on the theoretical level, that is. The whole "being wed to the king who murdered your father while at war with your brother" thing. They could do some really awesome storytelling with having Sansa trying to avenge her father

[dranger7070]

That's cool. I mean, I kinda cringe at the thought of self spoiling. Reading the books is one thing, you are enjoying the same story in a different medium... But cliffs or wiki'ing seems like you're getting the gist, but missing out on a lot. To each his own though.

But if you mean, how do I feel about you posting in this thread while having that knowledge... I couldn't care less, because I assume you are intelligent enough to not drop spoilers, and if someone points out how a post of yours could imply certain future events, you wouldn't get defensive and then post more spoilers.

cliffs: you are a mature(ok, maybe not, but you know what I'm saying) person who can handle the responsibility of not spoiling the rest of us.

[ ] spoiled anything for anyone

[x] defended self against bitching from e-tard.

[boost]

[ ] spoiled anything for anyone

[x] defended self against bitching from e-tard.

Dude, didn't you just get banned for being obnoxious in this thread? Anyone with any sense thinks you were at the very least on the edge, and they also probably think I was too harsh. But despite how I responded, you were at the very least on the edge. The fact that you can't see that... I mean.. I just don't even know what to say anymore.

I don't get what your goal is here.. are you just going to troll this thread for eternity? Don't you have anything better to do? We disagree on what is a spoiler, as a result there are now two threads suitable for both of us to post in... So, like, just go away, or stop being an obnoxious child.

[dranger7070]

Im one of those persistent pieces of shit that you cant get rid of.

[bikes]

Stop posting in this thread dranger. I'm not telling you again. You made it clear already in the thread you weren't gonna post in this thread again and I'm not gonna let you troll the people who don't want even the slightest hint of anything spoiled.

[dranger7070]

Fuck me I guess. I act like an ass for two posts, instabanned for a day. Get called a piece of shit and berated in an extremely over the top fashion and not a single word is said a out it.

C.S.B.

[bikes]

Yeah except he apologized and you continued to act like a douche.

[d0zer]

Fuck me I guess. I act like an ass for two posts, instabanned for a day. Get called a piece of shit and berated in an extremely over the top fashion and not a single word is said a out it.

C.S.B.

Apparently your trolling in this thread isn't entertaining to anyone but yourself. Cut it out, it's already wasted enough pages of this thread, nobody gives a shit who started it, or who was more annoying or if you were treated unfairly, I think we just all want it to stop

[dranger7070]

Im just living up to the piece of shit name.

[wufwugy]

caption the black guy as "dranger trying to post in the GoT thread" and white guy as "moderator"

[wufwugy]

btw dranger here's your new sig. apropos imo

[a500lbgorilla]

[a500lbgorilla]

9 pm Sunday

Let us gogogogo

[Renton]

solid episode

[wufwugy]

A lot of the new plots are really good

Glad Renly died. Not because I thought he should, but because google spoiled me on him eventually dying. The way he went was pretty damn lame, but now it's obvious the whole thing was just a small setup for something bigger. Each new episode looks to be more important than they really are in the scheme of the whole story, thus Renly appeared a more significant character than he really was, I guess

The shadow queef monster usage suggested that magic is really limited, as he just appeared, killed, then vanished. It also seems that each "major power" is being provided with their own super powers, so as to even the field. Last episode, it seemed the Lannisters were soon to be a dead family walking, but now they have more firepower than anybody

Every bit of Theon's scene suggested he's betraying Robb, except for one small bit where he decides to attack a different target based on an undisclosed reason.

Dorea is hot as shit. Would bang, then smack until she cries, then bang again

Not a fan of Jorah. He seems like such a prototype of androgyny or something.

Stannis showed extra layers. Davos and Stannis are gonna be kind of a big deal IMO

The opening theme and HBO maps are not sync'd. HBO map has Qarth and The Wall being far as shit from each other, but the theme scene has them being not that far when passing over a southern pole, it seems. Which doesn't make sense in itself, but ultimately doesn't matter

Really dig the Brienne/Lady Stark stuff. Not sure why, but my three favorite stories right now are Sansa's, Arya's (relative to Tywin) and Brienne/Cat

[a500lbgorilla]

Renly's death was perfect. It's why this show is so amazing. It's not the normal suspenseful build up in the last five minutes, commercial break, re-engage suspense, oh shit he's about to do it, Next Time on Game of Thrones: Does he do it? Find out next week.

Instead Renly is just relaxing early in an episode when no major characters would ever be killed and all of the sudden, he's down.

[wufwugy]

I guess I didn't like the "get out of jail free card" aspect of it. Need to get rid of the most powerful lord? Just create a new magic in the previous episode then use it to kill him in the next episode. Brilliant!

[wufwugy]

I have a guess that the new Brad Pitt with long hair guy might have magic powers too. How did he kill that one guy? He didn't shoot him with an arrow or anything. Wouldn't be surprised if he used his mind or some shit

Also, fucking hate Shae. She couldn't die any sooner. Just needed to say that

[baudib]

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeTall/statu.../photo/1/large

[a500lbgorilla]

I guess I didn't like the "get out of jail free card" aspect of it. Need to get rid of the most powerful lord? Just create a new magic in the previous episode then use it to kill him in the next episode. Brilliant!

Yeah, I get that. But the shadow demon came at some undisclosed future cost. Stannis owes for Renly's death. He'll prob die to the Red Woman when she senses him trying edge her out.

[JKDS]

Renly got what was coming to him, that bastard left my 'two legged spoiler' to die!

[wufwugy]

i wish they would show us more about rickon. he's clearly an important character, but it seems we wont know why for some time.

he's always so dark and angry. gotta be professor xavier like his brother, and probably the evil one or the one who sees bad stuff or something

[Jack Sawyer]

Fuck that little sadistic asshole king, I want to see his head roll by Tyrion's right hand man

[a500lbgorilla]

Still can't believe Renly's dead. Lady Stark is rolling deep though now with that butch bodyguard. Bitch can swing a sword.

[wufwugy]

Renly was too loved to live.

Ned was the first guy who was loved who had lots of power, he died shortly thereafter. Then Renly, and soon to be Robb, I guess. Being at war will keep Robb alive IMO, but shortly after he would become a loved king in relative peacetime, GRRM will have his head

[boost]

I love how Brann's dream foreshadows something we already know, yet the characters do not. This sort of foreshadowing, where the audience/reader is in on it is much underused imo.

[wufwugy]

Something I really dislike is how irrational people seem to be. I don't mean that they make dumb decisions, but that a lot of their actions are implausible for being humans. What I'm getting at is something that was fucking rampant in Lost, isn't so bad in GoT, but I did just notice it in the last ep especially

Basically, when absolutely amazing and crazy things happen, the characters do not react accordingly. They're completely desensitized. My guess is it's because the writers are so immersed in the world they've created, that they forget that these sorts of things are new for the characters

Anyways, a good example of this is Cat's and Brienne's reaction to seeing a wraith. That thing was a motherfucking wraith. A magic monster, a demon, something sent by the gods or evil forces or something absolutely insane that they were raised to believe wasn't even real. This type of experience would completely shatter some modes of thought for virtually everybody. I mean, we live in a world where drunks see a faint light in the distance and think it's a fucking UFO. But if that sorta thing actually happened, and was so blunt about it, most couldn't contain themselves

I'm not saying they would start acting crazy (a lot would), but they would at least address it as if it is what it is. But instead, the entire rest of the episode was as if Cat and Brienne were perturbed in no way by seeing this earth-shattering reality. A real-life wraith in their world would have completely dominated their thoughts, they would be freaking out about demons and praying to their gods and all that shit. But instead they did none of that. It was as if the wraith being what it was vanished from their minds

Lost did this like fucking crazy FWIW, and it irritated the shit out of me. It really allows writers to take their stories to shit places when they don't maintain realistic consistency of their characters and world. Just imagine how you would be thinking if you saw a six foot tall spider run down the street; because that's equally as unreal and crazy a thing to happen as Cat and Brienne seeing a fucking demon-ghost kill Renly

At the very least, Davos acknowledged that there is "something bad" about the red woman, but that's still not too plausible. It works in a way because Stannis is so adamant about not hearing any about it, so Davos has to be really diplomatic. But the audience still isn't given the impression that Davos is thinking OMG IT'S A FUCKING DEMON SPAWN IN A WORLD WHERE DEMONS ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE REAL AND IT'S TAKING OVER

These are all highly religious people. Imagine what would happen at church if a puff of black smoke formed into a human, murdered the preacher, then vanished in front of everybody. All bets would be off. Everybody who witnessed that would be going fucking crazy. Not behaviorally so much as the focus of their thoughts

[Renton]

Davos was very freaked out by the shadow. I agree with you about Brienne and Cat though.

[boost]

Also, Cat can CSI the shit outta that abandoned tower, yet she can't be like "it must have something to do with that evil looking witch lady who seems to hold a lot of sway with Stannis!" Idk, it just seemed like there were a few missing lines of dialogue that would have made that sequence far more fluid and "realistic."

[boost]

now that I think about it though.. "it looked like Stannis" "I don't know.. it just looked like smoke in the shape of a man.."-- This exchange seemed like they were both in a bit of shock, and their brains were trying to make any sense of it that they could. It's just that there wasn't a good transition into them swearing oaths to each other.

[wufwugy]

Also, Cat can CSI the shit outta that abandoned tower...

Yeah they get away with a lot of this, actually. Like when Margaery said Brienne killed Renly, Loras says he doesn't believe it. But the reality is Brienne and Cat are both by far the most likely suspects, so it's kinda silly to have Loras so adamantly blow it off his shoulder. But it's all in the name of moving the story in the direction GRRM wants, I guess....

The production being fantastic, most aspects of the writing and directing being fantastic, and the whole fantasy thing allows them to get away with a lot of these sort of mistakes. It's not like I could do better though

FWIW, the lore is really good. Better than LOTR, better than the stuff I used to read like Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance

[boost]

I think that the Loras declaring Brienne's innocence for apparently no reason can be explained by there simply not being enough screen time to adequately show why he would feel this way. It was probably far more sensible in the books, and the writers for the show were simply forced to gloss over this fairly minor detail so that the important stuff could be shown and Loras and Marge can be written in the same direction that GRRM had them going.

btw, the speculation on TVWOP can be really good, but the general tone over there is unbelievably annoying. I don't mind all the "Shirtless Gendry, oh my!!!" comments, that's cool... but the complaints about violence/rape/w/e are just absurd. It's a feudal fantasy world. Raping and pillaging and sadistic boy kings are par for the course. If it really bothers you that much, you can go watch Camelot on Showtime (I think it was canceled). I'm sure it's a lot more family friendly.. and also a lot shittier of a show.

Another example: they all seem to think that the four man ranger black ops squad is a horrible idea. No real explanation is given nor asked for when people say this. I really can't figure out why they think it's a bad idea. It's like they are really good at reverse engineering fiction, yet they are really bad at understanding general concepts about warfare and whatnot.

[wufwugy]

I think that the Loras declaring Brienne's innocence for apparently no reason can be explained by there simply not being enough screen time to adequately show why he would feel this way. It was probably far more sensible in the books, and the writers for the show were simply forced to gloss over this fairly minor detail so that the important stuff could be shown and Loras and Marge can be written in the same direction that GRRM had them going.

btw, the speculation on TVWOP can be really good, but the general tone over there is unbelievably annoying. I don't mind all the "Shirtless Gendry, oh my!!!" comments, that's cool... but the complaints about violence/rape/w/e are just absurd. It's a feudal fantasy world. Raping and pillaging and sadistic boy kings are par for the course. If it really bothers you that much, you can go watch Camelot on Showtime (I think it was canceled). I'm sure it's a lot more family friendly.. and also a lot shittier of a show.

Another example: they all seem to think that the four man ranger black ops squad is a horrible idea. No real explanation is given nor asked for when people say this. I really can't figure out why they think it's a bad idea. It's like they are really good at reverse engineering fiction, yet they are really bad at understanding general concepts about warfare and whatnot.

I think Cat is way more implicated than Brienne anyways. But yeah, I assume there's more in the book as well

As for TWoP, I agree. That thread is hard as shit to read. It's pretty much because they're mostly women (mothers). You find them get really uptight when characters like Jon Snow are put into scenarios where they could get hurt

I honestly haven't even read much of that thread for season 2, but did a lot for season 1. It's hard enough to go through reading single lines on 2p2. It's gonna sound hypocritical, but I don't wanna read their essays

Also, I was turned off a wee bit from that thread last season due to some of their speculations being really spot on, so I felt a little spoiled when they happened. Similar happened on 2p2 about the last few eps of Breaking Bad. Not a BB thread, so not talking about that, but 2p2 did get some legit speculations right, and since I sorta expected them to happen, when they did, I was kinda meh about it all


BTW, to be clear, I'm pretty sure the reason they don't like the 4 man black ops is cuz theyre mothers and dont want Jonny to get hurt. They talked all about that stuff last season, so it's probably implied by now.

[wufwugy]

Going over the thread, see this post. Example of how legit their speculations are. They get most things wrong, but a good chunk of what happens can be found within their thoughts

Completely Unspoiled Speculation - TWoP Forums - Page 187

I've questioned myself that they might be bookreaders, but I really don't think they are. The level of dedication it would take to pull off trolling that thread would be astronomical IMO

[Juked07]

Going over the thread, see this post. Example of how legit their speculations are. They get most things wrong, but a good chunk of what happens can be found within their thoughts

Completely Unspoiled Speculation - TWoP Forums - Page 187

I've questioned myself that they might be bookreaders, but I really don't think they are. The level of dedication it would take to pull off trolling that thread would be astronomical IMO

I've enjoyed following this thread so far.. But I think following that link just got me spoiled by a book reader. You're probably underestimating the dedication of trolls.

As a one off example.. I frequent a forum in which years ago, a troll created several fictitious characters, eventually married one of them, survived her death under mysterious circumstances, forum members became generally convinced that he murdered her, the police even did a full blown investigation before discovering that his "wife" never existed.

Trolls love to troll, and they'll work hard at it. If you're serious about quarantining yourself from book spoilers I'd stay away from that link.

[boost]

I've enjoyed following this thread so far.. But I think following that link just got me spoiled by a book reader. You're probably underestimating the dedication of trolls.

As a one off example.. I frequent a forum in which years ago, a troll created several fictitious characters, eventually married one of them, survived her death under mysterious circumstances, forum members became generally convinced that he murdered her, the police even did a full blown investigation before discovering that his "wife" never existed.

Trolls love to troll, and they'll work hard at it. If you're serious about quarantining yourself from book spoilers I'd stay away from that link.

meh, I see what you're saying, but if you're not going to do a complete GoT blackout to avoid spoilers, then I think this thread, the 2p2 thread, and the TVWOP (should it be TVWP?) thread are the safest places to discuss the show.

[wufwugy]

I've enjoyed following this thread so far.. But I think following that link just got me spoiled by a book reader. You're probably underestimating the dedication of trolls.

As a one off example.. I frequent a forum in which years ago, a troll created several fictitious characters, eventually married one of them, survived her death under mysterious circumstances, forum members became generally convinced that he murdered her, the police even did a full blown investigation before discovering that his "wife" never existed.

Trolls love to troll, and they'll work hard at it. If you're serious about quarantining yourself from book spoilers I'd stay away from that link.

That's some legit trolling

As for the thread, I think that while there may be some trolls in there, they're not distinguishable due to the nature of what that would take. They're all wrong on most things, so even if a troll is spoiling stuff, you still wouldn't know it because of all the chaff added to the posts

A few random points for my case: a few speculations I have made up have become true, 2p2 figured out one of the major plot points to Breaking Bad, I have posted a lot of the speculations that came out of the TWoP thread on 2p2 where Dids claimed that no big spoilers have been dropped (so it implies most/all of that stuff is wrong)

As for that specific post, I don't really even think that could be a troll. The details and logics are just too much. Like him saying that everybody who ate an apple in the previous ep would die. That wouldn't have been in the book, but if he was going to book-spoil on those three people dying, he somehow came up with that connection?

Then I think most of his other points for future speculations are simply wrong, but no need to go into detail

I do, however, get your feeling. As I have felt quite spoiled by some speculations. There *could* be trolls on there, but I don't think that guy is one of them (if you would like to discuss why in detail, I could), trolling in that thread is gonna be really hard due to it being super modded, and when the trolling does happen, it is bogged down by the person being forced to also get lots of stuff wrong. Personally, I don't follow each poster, so I only get a generalization of some of what is said in that thread, so if I get "spoiled" it's more along the lines of randomness. Anyways, I don't think there are trolls on there, but I could be wrong

[wufwugy]

meh, I see what you're saying, but if you're not going to do a complete GoT blackout to avoid spoilers, then I think this thread, the 2p2 thread, and the TVWOP (should it be TVWP?) thread are the safest places to discuss the show.

Television (T) Without (Wo) Pity (P) IMO

That's what some dude called it when he referenced it in one of the spoilernit discussions from last year in the 2p2 thread

[boost]

if without gets a lower case "O", then television definitely is getting at least a lowercase "V" if not an uppercase one.

/acronymnittery

[wufwugy]

Just for shits and giggles, I'll go down that guy's post. I do not think he's a bookreader at all

1. Everyone seen eating fruit last episode is killed by mouth: Renly (Smokebaby), whore (scepter), blond torturer (rat).

He got this right, but not entirely. "By mouth" reads as a very specific sort of symbolism, which is the sort of reads he seems to make, and it didn't happen

2. Brienne fights the Smokebaby but can't stop it.

Didn't happen

3. Smokebaby kills Renly covertly (e.g. suffocation while sleeping) so Stannis can step in with apparently clean hands.

Didn't happen

4. A Man Has A Thirst returns to help Arya. He's a member of The Brotherhood.

Anybody who's into figuring out symbolism and how stories work would have guessed that A Man Has A Thirst guy was going to become a bigger character. Relation to The Brotherhood and helping Arya is a pretty logical place to go. Personally, I knew he was a legit character because I looked at the cast on HBO. FYI, last year, TWoP thought the "hooded dude in the cage" (whom this guy turned out to be) was Ser Barristan or a couple others I don't remember

5. Tyrion finds a good use for the laxative Pycelle gave him episode before last and Joffrey gets unclogged.

Didn't happen, not gonna happen. Pycelle wouldn't have poisoned Tyrion because his role as ear was more important, so the vial isn't secretly not laxative. And Tyrion wouldn't dare give Joffrey the shits; waaaaaaay too much risk there in getting it done, hoping Teh Joff doesn't get super mad, etc

6. Stannis becomes evil and Davos must turn on him.

Could happen, but I doubt it. The magic doesn't work that way. Also, it's the poster's standard line of looking to a few pieces of potential foreshadowing. Personally, I have Davos betraying Stannis due to his son dying by fire like Melisandre alluded to. But overall, it looks even more likely that Davos WILL NOT betray Stannis. That's one of GRRM's things i.e. his honorable men are really fucking honorable. Ned would not break, Jorah is loyal to the core, and Davos will be loyal to the core IMO

7. Bronn betrays Tyrion for money.

It's almost too obvious to happen, and I suspect it won't. Who's richer than Tyrion? Who treats Bronn better than Tyrion? I think the superficial look at Bronn is that he could betray Tyrion, but the deeper look is that it would be next to impossible for him to do so

8. Sam's courage is tested and he sacrifices himself to save Jon.

I think this line looks really easy to figure out from the standard perspective, but that they might not be playing Sam like that. This is the sort of character development that happens in Hollywood comedies, but GRRM doesn't play that way, it seems. Something like this could happen though, but I'm not sure it involves "saving Jon" GRRM has yet to play a line that simplistic and standard

9. Lord Commander Mormont is killed by a White Walker.

Not this season he ain't. Or maybe he will at the very end. He does have to die because he gave the special sword to Jon and eventually Jorah is gonna have to see the hilt, and realize that his late father trusted Jon (which will forge an eventual Dany/Snow alliance/marriage IMO). Maybe Mormont does die this season, but my guess for why the poster thinks so is because of the foreshadowing of Mormont giving Jon lessons on how to lead. He likes that sort of foreshadowing speculation

10. Littlefinger loses his head.

Naw he's sticking around. Who's gonna kill him? Teh Joff is probably the only one, but I bet he wouldn't dare. LF is gonna be brokering an alliance between the Tyrells and Lannisters while secretly looking to broker a marriage with Margaery for himself. LF is in this for the long haul. For a while I thought he was a goner cuz some of his arcs completed, but he's picking up so many more important roles. Also, he's got his own house sigil; that means he's super important. Just think on that, why would GRRM even mention he's got his own sigil (more than once) if he wasn't keeping him around for big things?

[baudib]

FWIW, the lore is really good. Better than LOTR, better than the stuff I used to read like Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance

I don't disagree with you, but tell me why you think it's superior to, say, Tolkien.

[wufwugy]

I don't disagree with you, but tell me why you think it's superior to, say, Tolkien.

I read both The Hobbit and the first two hundred pages of Fellowship twice. I couldn't get much further than that, but did watch the movies several times

My read on JRRT was that the lore was too much of a dichotomy. It was great for its time, for sure. Was very original in some ways, but the dichotomy of good vs evil is simply inferior to a more evolved view of the world. In some ways, that dichotomy is fun, but I'm honestly not sure if I can ever get behind it again. When I was a kid, sure I thought it was legit, but that dichotomy just doesn't play that well anymore. It truly never did, only to xtians and the like did it seem to become a thing. The Wire (new, and some of the best work) is a Greek Tragedy (old, and based in reality), after all. Only in our religious imaginations does the dark black of evil fight the bright light of good

On a different level, I think the play of steel, brain, and brawns vs magic is very good. Fantasies usually are much more blunt about their magic and it tends to dominate, but GoT uses it in very limited fashion and is quite mystical about it. For example: the Mother of Dragons is near death of starvation in a desert, while on the other end of the world, a boy dreams through the eyes of his pet. This is much more refined a lore than guys who shoot fireballs after learning a spell.

On a personal level, I like the humanness. No elves, no dwarves, just people being people. WRT my experiences in fantasy, this is a novel concept.

I also like the subtlety. It seems you never truly know what's going on, and I suspect we won't know until the end, and even then may not. In the books I read, the agenda, heroes, villains, and magics were all clear. But in GoT, they're not. Granted, I haven't read anything since maybe the 12th Drizzt book and the Rose of the Prophet trilogy; so it's been over a decade, and stuff may be more evolved now.

[wufwugy]

Davos was very freaked out by the shadow. I agree with you about Brienne and Cat though.

Rewatched the ep, I agree that his reactions were right. They didn't give him much time to form those thoughts for the audience as when it first happened, the ep ended, then when he was trying to tell Stannis he had to tread very lightly

[wufwugy]

Granted, it is "Ice and Fire", so that suggests GRRM is using the regular good vs evil dichotomy. But it's also "The Song of", which suggests it's not a black and white dichotomy, but a colorful spectrum

So far, the story is suggesting there are a whole lot of ways for it to not be black and white

[JKDS]

Well...theres certainly wights

Bum dum tssh



edit: This could be taken as a response to all of wufs posts...but it was just in response to his last one.