Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[wufwugy]

Ed Stark's rolling head says GRRM could have killed or set to the wind every major character in King's Landing.

I think people were surprised because of it being a show, not how the story developed. What I mean is that nobody expects the main character to die because shows don't kill them, but the storytelling actually made it pretty clear Ned was probably gonna die

Tyrion is not dead because that would be terrible storytelling. There is so much more he has to do based in what has been happening. The same goes for Davos; if he's dead, the writers are bad and should feel bad. The story they should be making here is Stannis has to go back to Melisandre and do it her way, and Davos has to struggle with the reality that he may have to "fight against" his king in order to save him

While I wanted Stannis to win, it would have been kinda weird because the story they're telling means that he had to lose so he can go back and bring the dark magic with him

So here's a list for the finale

- Robb can't die because of the love story for Talisa. If it wasn't for that, him dying would actually be a pretty reasonable proposition by way of making the hidden Bran the lord of the region. Another reason he kinda can't die is because he's supposed to be king, but if he dies, that whole thing goes with him. They could get around that though, but not the Talisa story. Talisa, however, could die and send Robb into some fits, but that would be lame storytelling. One of the ways Robb could die is if the books used different sorts of storytelling styles and they go into his and Talisa's love, yet still put an end to it in a sort of Romeo and Juliet way. A book can do this well, but this show would be making a big mistake if Robb died now

- Bran and Rickon can't die because duh

- Osha and Hodor can't die because they're largely messengers for the Bran/Rickon story

- Snow and Dany obv can't die

- Jorah actually could die. None of the storylines hinge upon him living. I doubt he will die though because it would throw the dragon story into something I don't think they're trying to tell

- Stannis and Melisandre can't die because they're the vehicle for the dark magic

- Davos can't die because he's an important counter to that dark magic and Stannis. Plus, his character building and screen time is too much to go out like that. I mean, they could kill him without devastating some stories, but it would be pretty awful writing if they did. Also, Davos' personal sigil is important. This isn't storytelling so much as like the Direwolves simply stating that somebody is important. Davos' sigil is not as important as LF's though because they used that to tell something about his past, whereas LF's is telling something about the future IMO

- Varys can't die because he knows too much and is a medium for tying things together for both the characters and the audience

- Littlefinger can't die because of his sigil, but other than that maybe he could since the Tyrell relationship has been brokered. However, if he did, this would be terrible writing because he's clearly an extremely important character for just about any plot. One of the reasons GRRM could kill Ned and Robert and Renly is because they were straightforward and easy characters to make. Littlefinger is not

- Cat can't die because she needs to stick around to make terrible decisions. Actually, she probably could die. It wouldn't be that great though because she should be used as an important counter to Robb, Lady of Winterfell, Tully, lots of reasons she should be kept around for the future. Also if she dies the Brienne thing is dumb. The Brienne thing isn't pivotal though so Cat dying wouldn't be completely stupid, just a little stupid

- Sansa can die because her Dire Wolf is dead, but that's a dumb way of looking at it. She should actually be one of the most unkillable characters in the show due to all the things she's "been taught". I think Sansa is being written as a naive girl who grows up to be one of the most powerful women in the world

- Teh Joff can't die because his death has to be fucking awesome, and so far nobody is in a position to make that happen. Granted, that dynamic may not have been portrayed in the books, but for the show, the writers need to realize that everybody hates him and wants to see him get his comeuppance the right way

- Arya obviously cannot die because Syrio taught her one of the most important lessons there is

- Jaqen can't die until he puts that final name under ground. There is, however, a whole lot of ways they could take his story because even though he brings loads of mystery, it doesn't have to be explained, nor by him. I have him as a really special character though, so he's not dying. If he's not magical, I don't know WTF this show is doing. In a way, actually, he seems more like some variation of a demi-god than magical. His extreme levels of mystery, rules, and how he makes people dead in weird ways shows he may be privy to special knowledge and reality manipulation powers

- Ygritte could die, but only if the writers are idiots

- Jaime and Cersei are probably the most expendable characters. Nothing hinges upon them, and KL is getting pretty crowded. Cersei is almost redundant by now, especially if Teh Joff marries Margaery. Jaime is also redundant if Loras becomes Kingsguard.

- Tywin also could die. Some Lannisters are gonna have to go. I don't really know how I'd do it though. The problem with the storylines the Lannisters are significant for is that they are aksi begging to be turned on their heads. Some of them could die, and things would still go on. Their stories could be twisted up, and things would still go on. So something could happen there. I just hope it's not Tywin since he and Tyrion are the only cool Lannisters (well and Jaime, but kinda meh). I think they may be making a small side story out of Tyrion gaining respect from his father too

- I don't care about Shae. She sucks

- Bronn could die, but again that would be terrible writing. You don't kill off your most interesting characters. Ned was not interesting, Renly was hardly interesting, and Robert was simply funny; those guys can die, not guys like Bronn, not yet

- Hound can die, but I don't really like it. Also, Hound could be Sansa's new dire wolf. Think about it... Hound... he's protecting her... Anyways, Hounds main story could just revolve around Sansa, but as to how much, that's anybody's guess. He shouldn't die, however, because again he's super interesting and there's a ton they can do with him

- Theon can only die as soon as a Stark puts his head on a stake, but I'm not sure when that's gonna happen. They could tell his story as a very swift downfall, or as a really long struggle with his family and his actions. Personally, I'd probably go the latter route because you can develop much more there, and instead of seeing Theon make all these bad decisions then be punished due to them, we'd see him make even more and have to come to terms with them and even start trying to fix them. He really could die in any ep though because the Greyjoy "invasion" really only looked like it was just a drive-by and the way to show Theon's downfall


Damn that was a long one, think I covered them all

[a500lbgorilla]

So here's a list for the finale

- Robb can't die because of the love story for Talisa.
- Bran and Rickon can't die because duh
- Osha and Hodor can't die because they're largely messengers for the Bran/Rickon story
- Snow and Dany obv can't die
- Jorah actually could die.
- Stannis and Melisandre can't die because they're the vehicle for the dark magic
- Davos can't die because he's an important counter to that dark magic and Stannis.
- Varys can't die because he knows too much and is a medium for tying things together for both the characters and the audience
- Littlefinger can't die because of his sigil, but other than that maybe he could since the Tyrell relationship has been brokered.
- Cat can't die because she needs to stick around to make terrible decisions.
- Sansa can die because her Dire Wolf is dead, but that's a dumb way of looking at it.
- Teh Joff can't die because his death has to be fucking awesome, and so far nobody is in a position to make that happen.
- Arya obviously cannot die because Syrio taught her one of the most important lessons there is
- Jaqen can't die until he puts that final name under ground.
- Ygritte could die, but only if the writers are idiots
- Jaime and Cersei are probably the most expendable characters.
- Tywin also could die.
- I don't care about Shae. She sucks
- Bronn could die
- Hound can die
- Theon can only die as soon as a Stark puts his head on a stake

So I was thinking about this - how the story drives the deaths and victories and that you can have a good sense of what is about to happen with enough focus.

As I understand classical music (admittedly not well) there's like a home key that the song starts in the music runs away from, you're supposed to expect from a sense of balance and design that the music will return home and the longer it meanders, the more tension it builds. So you start in A, go away, and eventually come back to A or some such.

That's kind of the same idea driving these thoughts that, for instance, Littlefinger can't die because he picked a sigil. I agree, that's laying the groundwork for something and I expect it to pay off. Or Dany/Jon Snow can't die because they're in the far north and Qarth and the only ways to justify paying attention to these places is because they eventually drive some of the main plot. Why the hell are we in Qarth if it's not eventually going to come back home?

But since this story is 7 seasons long and we're just on season 2, there's plenty of time to stay away from home. There's plenty of time to lay additional ground work, false avenues for your hope that that's how it's taking us back, and smash them. Plenty of time to create a new, second home for us to establish and move away from creating a second tension that needs resolved.

So I'd like to believe that GRRM could have had Stannis win that battle and allow the consequences to ripple forth, since I want to believe that his story telling is awesome and there's plenty of time to achieve whatever conclusion he has in store. I say believe because I recognize first that this sense is valuable as a viewer. The show is more entertaining when I believe GRRM can do anything to anyone at any time.

[wufwugy]

The show is more entertaining when I believe GRRM can do anything to anyone at any time.

From a writing perspective, that is an extremely interesting concept. I always view things from the perspective if I were writing it because in another life I would have been a writer (I may some day attempt to do so in this life). But I'm not sure if I've even seen work where you could truly say "anyone at anytime"

One example people might use for this sort of thing is Scorsese films, but that doesn't entirely qualify because there is still a structure to how he kills people. I think maybe the movies that use that concept are the horror suspense type stuff like Scream or Deep Blue Sea, but those are not that high of quality stuff

A point against mine, however, is a lot of the "oh he couldn't die because duh" is retrospective. For example, you could say that Sansa is gonna die any time because her dog is dead, but it also could be that The Hound is now her new dog, and we just don't know it. Part of me thinks that Jaqen might even be Nymeria (Arya's lost direwolf). The writers can shift stories on a dime, so in that way, you can't predict stuff

I think I do agree with you though, it would be cooler to think "anybody anytime". That was one reason I started disliking some of the magic stuff, because it made Bran and Dany much more special to the story. I mean, if I was writing this thing, I probably would have made it where Dany gets kidnapped or even killed by Zorro Derpsucks and Blue Lips and they have an enormous army full of dark magic and dragons and the first thing they do is invade new lands to the east of Qarth, on a conquest of world domination. But I just don't think that if that was the direction the story was going, we would have the impression of Dany that we currently have.