FTR Forums have become an embarassment

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Originally Posted by dalecooper

Anyone saying the FTR forums are an "embarrassment" is just blinded by his own personal agendas.

Thank you for completely proving my points....several of them.

A. Low IQ on the forum....go grab a dictionary and look up satire. The original post that Xianti put up was titled "FTR IRC is an embarassment." So this post was titled "FTR Forums are an embarassment" in response. The same way that the "Official Tim's Girlfriend is not that hot thread" was meant as a satire for the "Official Tim's Girlfriend Thread." I apologize for giving the FTR community enough credit to figure this out. I forgot how I have to spell things out for you.

B. People pick apart threads and respond to them with answers that add nothing to the discussion. Scroll up, how many people posted the exact same thing? I can think of 4 people that actually got this thread and responded with actual useful discussion material relevant to the topic, with the intent of their posts acomplishing something; Xianti, Tyson, Demi, and yes i'll say it even Trikflow. Other than that every other post has been some hyper-defensive BS about how great the forums are and how nothing needs done or a personal attack on me.

Well congratulations to most of you. You have proven yourself incapable of an intelligent discussion, proven all of my points through your own actions, and lowered yourself to behavior even beneath that of most of the "bad players with bad attitudes" that you claim frequent IRC. I hope you are proud of yourselves. GG

First off, about people respond to threads saying the same thing. How is this a bad thing? So a few people make the same point in slightly different ways. Not always does the first person say it right. It's hard, especially in sngs, to answer without a "cookie-cutter" response. And I truely don't think you understand that. In sngs, the answer is usually clear and the subject has been hashed and rehashed somewhere to death. So we say "Push here." "Fold preflop." becuase those are the right answers and we all know why. If they guy asks "why push" we'll explain. But if every time I said "push" i'd have to run through a detailed explination of ICM, I'd never post. Another reason why people post the same things is becuase a forum debate is not like a person-to-person debate where one person says something, another responds, but everyone hears what everyone else says. In a forum debate, the person starts to read, sees a point he doesnt agree with and immediatly posts about it. Then continues to read. Many people do this and you don't seem to understand that dynamic either. So it seems to me like you're on a witch hunt to kill "cookie-cutter" posts when they're simply natural and they do nothing harmful to the community. It's actually one of the dumbest critisms I've ever heard. I also find it ironic how many times you've said the same thing in this thread.

"It's actually one of the dumbest critisms I've ever heard." Now I have just pulled a Lambchop. When I've become frustrated that my point doesn't seem to be sinking in, I say that everyone is stupid becuase they don't pick up on satire. Or maybe trying to pull something off in this medium to an audience of mostly college-aged/younger adult mathmatical thinkers (some of whom don't speak english as well as others) WASN'T the best idea. I don't fully understand why you believe we have a low IQ. Is it becuase I deleted the Tim's Girlfriend is Not Hot thread becuase I didn't "get it"? If it is, then I'm just going to walk away from this conversation becuase clearly you were not hearing me before. Is it becuase people think you're bashing the forum when you say things like "The people within this forum are stupid." Not a direct quote, but how I read it.

You may believe that you are right and that you have the moral high ground in this argument but you do not have a very good way of getting your point across. With your posts, it takes a lot of maturity to not degrade these arguments into a flame war.

Now, I've sat back and I've analyzed and here's what I've seen. And please, just listen.

1) IRC was created to help augment the FTR experience. Take noobs and boobs and turn them into sharks with freaking lazer beams attached to their heads.

2) It went well while soupie was running the show. People respect soupie and soupie rules with an iron fist.

3) Becuase of the weaknesses in the format (the fact that it is difficult to play and type) the expert players moved to vent to carry on poker related conversations.

4) While vent thrived under soupian rule, IRC remained a leaderless cesspool of immaturity.

5) Dwarfman steped in but once puberty kicked him square in the nuts, it became clear he was making things much, much worse. Those who were active in IRC were not ops and those who were ops were just not active. The system failed. Those who were in a position to fix it did not have the time or energy to do so.

6) The bickering and fighting cuased by the sinking FTR ship spilled over into the forums and into the eyes of people like Xianti, UG, and forum goers who did and maybe even did not know about IRC. The childishness made us look very bad and it seemed as though IRC was no longer performing its function of poker education.

7) Xianti decided to remove the FTR affiliation.

8) Lambchop was outraged. IRC had helped him so much that it would be a crime to remove such a valuable tool.

9) Lambchop's awesome mind with the ability to see patterns in even patternless situations decided that this coupled with my locking of the Tim's gf is Not Hot thread and the "cookie cutter" responses that pepper the FTR forums were enough to say that something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. And so Lambchop sprang to action, flying to his desktop and pouring his heart and soul but he was greatly aggrivated when the tone of his post did not translate properly.

Now we're here. You feel that IRC should be brought back becuase it helps noobs. You want something to be done with the moderation of the forums but I'm still not sure what. You want healthy debate in the forums.

I feel IRC should be fixed and then brought back. So fix it.

I feel I do need to establish a doctraine of my Community reign and am doing so.

I feel that there exists very healthy debate in the forums and I have seen it daily. The problem is that people like myself who have posted for over a year now and have tried to keep content up have burned out. I don't see content I want to argue over any more. When I see a thread, it's hardly ever an argument. It's me explaining something. The only way to bring content up would be for the new wave of ftr posters to do it themselves. They need the next Rondavu, gabe, vq, soupie, etc. The burden cannot be put on the veteran posters becuase it becomes a lecture, not an argument. FTR will/has become one big machine, churning out the FTR-way of playing AQs against an ep limper from the CO with 15 bets on the bubble. The only way to keep argument high would be for the vets to phase out and for the new guys to NOT have them as a resource. So that they must seek within themselves an answer. So every time I post, I keep the newbies from holding debate between themselves and therefore keep the general content down.

Also, don't end posts in GG. It's just the final spit in the face and you know it.

FTR Forums have become an embarassment

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12-09-2005 10:36 AM #16
a500lbgorilla View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries SPLENDID GUY Join Date Sep 2004 Posts 28,082 Location himself fucker.	Originally Posted by lambchopdc Originally Posted by dalecooper Anyone saying the FTR forums are an "embarrassment" is just blinded by his own personal agendas. Thank you for completely proving my points....several of them. A. Low IQ on the forum....go grab a dictionary and look up satire. The original post that Xianti put up was titled "FTR IRC is an embarassment." So this post was titled "FTR Forums are an embarassment" in response. The same way that the "Official Tim's Girlfriend is not that hot thread" was meant as a satire for the "Official Tim's Girlfriend Thread." I apologize for giving the FTR community enough credit to figure this out. I forgot how I have to spell things out for you. B. People pick apart threads and respond to them with answers that add nothing to the discussion. Scroll up, how many people posted the exact same thing? I can think of 4 people that actually got this thread and responded with actual useful discussion material relevant to the topic, with the intent of their posts acomplishing something; Xianti, Tyson, Demi, and yes i'll say it even Trikflow. Other than that every other post has been some hyper-defensive BS about how great the forums are and how nothing needs done or a personal attack on me. Well congratulations to most of you. You have proven yourself incapable of an intelligent discussion, proven all of my points through your own actions, and lowered yourself to behavior even beneath that of most of the "bad players with bad attitudes" that you claim frequent IRC. I hope you are proud of yourselves. GG First off, about people respond to threads saying the same thing. How is this a bad thing? So a few people make the same point in slightly different ways. Not always does the first person say it right. It's hard, especially in sngs, to answer without a "cookie-cutter" response. And I truely don't think you understand that. In sngs, the answer is usually clear and the subject has been hashed and rehashed somewhere to death. So we say "Push here." "Fold preflop." becuase those are the right answers and we all know why. If they guy asks "why push" we'll explain. But if every time I said "push" i'd have to run through a detailed explination of ICM, I'd never post. Another reason why people post the same things is becuase a forum debate is not like a person-to-person debate where one person says something, another responds, but everyone hears what everyone else says. In a forum debate, the person starts to read, sees a point he doesnt agree with and immediatly posts about it. Then continues to read. Many people do this and you don't seem to understand that dynamic either. So it seems to me like you're on a witch hunt to kill "cookie-cutter" posts when they're simply natural and they do nothing harmful to the community. It's actually one of the dumbest critisms I've ever heard. I also find it ironic how many times you've said the same thing in this thread. "It's actually one of the dumbest critisms I've ever heard." Now I have just pulled a Lambchop. When I've become frustrated that my point doesn't seem to be sinking in, I say that everyone is stupid becuase they don't pick up on satire. Or maybe trying to pull something off in this medium to an audience of mostly college-aged/younger adult mathmatical thinkers (some of whom don't speak english as well as others) WASN'T the best idea. I don't fully understand why you believe we have a low IQ. Is it becuase I deleted the Tim's Girlfriend is Not Hot thread becuase I didn't "get it"? If it is, then I'm just going to walk away from this conversation becuase clearly you were not hearing me before. Is it becuase people think you're bashing the forum when you say things like "The people within this forum are stupid." Not a direct quote, but how I read it. You may believe that you are right and that you have the moral high ground in this argument but you do not have a very good way of getting your point across. With your posts, it takes a lot of maturity to not degrade these arguments into a flame war. Now, I've sat back and I've analyzed and here's what I've seen. And please, just listen. 1) IRC was created to help augment the FTR experience. Take noobs and boobs and turn them into sharks with freaking lazer beams attached to their heads. 2) It went well while soupie was running the show. People respect soupie and soupie rules with an iron fist. 3) Becuase of the weaknesses in the format (the fact that it is difficult to play and type) the expert players moved to vent to carry on poker related conversations. 4) While vent thrived under soupian rule, IRC remained a leaderless cesspool of immaturity. 5) Dwarfman steped in but once puberty kicked him square in the nuts, it became clear he was making things much, much worse. Those who were active in IRC were not ops and those who were ops were just not active. The system failed. Those who were in a position to fix it did not have the time or energy to do so. 6) The bickering and fighting cuased by the sinking FTR ship spilled over into the forums and into the eyes of people like Xianti, UG, and forum goers who did and maybe even did not know about IRC. The childishness made us look very bad and it seemed as though IRC was no longer performing its function of poker education. 7) Xianti decided to remove the FTR affiliation. 8) Lambchop was outraged. IRC had helped him so much that it would be a crime to remove such a valuable tool. 9) Lambchop's awesome mind with the ability to see patterns in even patternless situations decided that this coupled with my locking of the Tim's gf is Not Hot thread and the "cookie cutter" responses that pepper the FTR forums were enough to say that something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. And so Lambchop sprang to action, flying to his desktop and pouring his heart and soul but he was greatly aggrivated when the tone of his post did not translate properly. Now we're here. You feel that IRC should be brought back becuase it helps noobs. You want something to be done with the moderation of the forums but I'm still not sure what. You want healthy debate in the forums. I feel IRC should be fixed and then brought back. So fix it. I feel I do need to establish a doctraine of my Community reign and am doing so. I feel that there exists very healthy debate in the forums and I have seen it daily. The problem is that people like myself who have posted for over a year now and have tried to keep content up have burned out. I don't see content I want to argue over any more. When I see a thread, it's hardly ever an argument. It's me explaining something. The only way to bring content up would be for the new wave of ftr posters to do it themselves. They need the next Rondavu, gabe, vq, soupie, etc. The burden cannot be put on the veteran posters becuase it becomes a lecture, not an argument. FTR will/has become one big machine, churning out the FTR-way of playing AQs against an ep limper from the CO with 15 bets on the bubble. The only way to keep argument high would be for the vets to phase out and for the new guys to NOT have them as a resource. So that they must seek within themselves an answer. So every time I post, I keep the newbies from holding debate between themselves and therefore keep the general content down. Also, don't end posts in GG. It's just the final spit in the face and you know it.