FTR Forums have become an embarassment

[lambchopdc]

Lambchop, you will never convice these people of the truth. Just move on and let everyone encapsulate themselves with the forums without any other means of learning. IRC and Ventrilo offer such a greater opportunity because they are real time. Lambchop is merly trying to keep these outlets open so other can benefit from them like he has.

As always you consistently have the shortest post in the topic, yet say the most. NH Sir.

GG all.

P.S. You are officially hired as my new "get the point across blunty" verbal bitch-smacker. Well done.

[a500lbgorilla]

Lambchop, you will never convice these people of the truth. Just move on and let everyone encapsulate themselves with the forums without any other means of learning. IRC and Ventrilo offer such a greater opportunity because they are real time. Lambchop is merly trying to keep these outlets open so other can benefit from them like he has.

As always you consistently have the shortest post in the topic, yet say the most. NH Sir.

GG all.

P.S. You are officially hired as my new "get the point across blunty" verbal bitch-smacker. Well done.

If that is what you're trying to say, then your point 4 and point 5 are way off and only serve to boost tempers and generally throw a wrench into any discussion the thread could have.

The Tim's Girlfriend thread was in poor taste, if you disagree then that's fine. But we can both agree that Xianti has allowed me to make administrative decisions within my own forum and I choose not to allow that thread to escalate and to in some way protect Tim from you guys taking a joke too far. If you can convince me no harm will come of that thread, then I will bring it back.

[a500lbgorilla]

point 2
yea, no one has to read them. that doesn't mean they still arent stupid and unnecessary.

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

Tim's post was not a personal attack on anyone. Tim has a hot gf and Tim wanted to show it off. It was just a brag post. You guys started to attack Tim in my forums and I decided to put my foot down. And I was the only one to decide. If you can convince me it was harmless fun and that I missinterpreted it, I'll bring it back in a jiffy.

[a500lbgorilla]

what the hell is the big problem? You guys like chilling in irc, no ones asking you to cease and desist using the name. Xianti just doesnt want to have anything to do with it.

And Lamb, I think its cool that you are trying to turn shit around, but if the only people oped are constantly quading or 8 tabling or whatever, then how good of a job do you think youre doing?

No ones telling you to no longer log into the channel, so I dont get what the big fuss is about. The irc channel is not bringing xianti or the other owners any referalls, this site is, and when this site turns into an irc bitching fest, then people dont come here. Then they stop seeing referalls. So if he feels IRC is nothing but trouble, who are you to go and call him a baby? Think about what youre saying man.

Last i checked the community forum didn't make him referrals either. My point is that IRC has helped people make money, and u won't convince me otherwise cuz it did for me. Taking away IRC from FTR is removing what could be a valuable resource. But apparantly helping people isn't what matters, its all about referrals.

IRC in the state that is currently is is nothing but an eyesore for anyone who only reads the forums. What spills over into the forums (like the community, which DOES link things for referals) is the first thing seen by new people comming to FTR. IF all the see is bickering then they'll probably be turned off to FTR and never return. Xianti decided that he can no longer have the FTR name attached to IRC becuase it's only function to the forums appeared to be giving us a bad name.

IRC will not be back today or tomorrow. But it may be back in a month. You guys have the burden of now fixing IRC if you want it to continue. I'm sure if you can, Xinati will be willing to link it on the page again and allow it to carry the FTR name.

[a500lbgorilla]

and theres a difference between posting pictures of your girl, who has decent implants and a cute face for everyone to enjoy. Versus blatantly hating on someones girlfreind in a public forums, that is just wrong.

[a500lbgorilla]

and theres a difference between posting pictures of your girl, who has decent implants and a cute face for everyone to enjoy. Versus blatantly hating on someones girlfreind in a public forums, that is just wrong. Lamb, you seem to be pulling everyones cards today how about I pull yours? how about I get a copy of that picture of your girlfreind that someone has and post that. Then we can have everyone critique her. (sorry sarah just proving a point) Then youll see how it feels.

no hard feelings man.. just proving a point, that post was out of line.

If I posted a pic of her on the forums simply so everyone could stare at her and u wanted to critique it, i couldn't say a damn thing. But i didn't.

If you had posted Tim hating in that thread, I would have probably let it go on becuase Tim would be inviting the attacks. But you guys waited weeks after that thread had died and out of no where decided to start bashing him.

[a500lbgorilla]

I agree with Demi that the problem was always the ops as I stated in the original thread.

IRC needs someone that everyone respects and everyone will allow to rule with a iron fist. Much like soupie does in vent. He simply doesn't tolerate any rule breaking so people respect his rules.

Another problem with discipling in IRC is that you only have two options. Boot or ban. One does nothing, the other does too much. I banned miffed for about 2 hrs yesterday and he almost died from his outrage. I dunno what can be done to IRC but I'm sure someone else will be able to fix it. It'll just take time and co-operation. But with the high level of immaturity in IRC (myself included in this) I really don't think it can be done easily.

[Fortune 500]

My thoughts on this (and I know that precisely no one cares).

I used to frequent IRC... but to be honest, I never found it much of a tool. It was just a fun place to hang out and joke with some folks while playing poker. To that end, it served its purpose.

But then, things would start happening. I'd walk away for a while, and some smartass Op (and I don't even know who it was, so I'm not pointing fingers or anything) would boot me WHEN I WAS IDLE. I tolerated that for a while, but then the noise ratio got too high. I don't mind the jokes (hell, I used to joke with Boost and Newjack in there all the time.) but when you see:

OMG!! AA<67. FISH. FUUUUUUUUCK.

Over and over again, it gets tiresome. I made a personal decision to leave. Other than some book discussion on occasion, the amount of actual poker knowledge I got from IRC was nil. If others of you feel differently, more power to you. You clearly made better use of the resource than I did, and you are to be commended for that.

What I don't like is the overflow into the forums. I don't really care if Miffed got kicked, or Dwarfy got out of line... handle it there or via PM. You don't see people in IRC going "Fortune is a prick. He just trashed the way I played a hand in the SNG forum."

It's unnecessary noise. Actually, you could say the same thing about the Community here, but I think the key element is that it remain FRIENDLY noise. The Commune and IRC are not places to air out personal grievances.

I am but a lowly member of FTR, I understand that, and as so, my opinion doesn't carry a lot of weight, but what makes this place so great is its affable environment. Poker is a brutal game... and sometimes the lessons need to be too... but these places and issues have nothing to do with LEARNING THE GAME... so there's no reason to not put our best face forward and maintain the friendly atmosphere. IRC was detracting from that. The Commune of late has been detracting from that? I mean, bashing Tim's Girlfriend? C'mon folks. She's attractive... but even if she were a butt ugly dog.... it is not your place to insult and belittle one of our forum members. Free speech or no, it just strikes me as classless.

EDITED: Because VQC threatened me!

[ake]

But then, things would start happening. I'd walk away for a while, and some smartass Op (and I don't even know who it was, so I'm not pointing fingers or anything) would boot me WHEN I WAS IDLE.

I just wanted to reply to this part.
As far as I know no one has kicked you, OP's kicking people for non legit reasons is not tolerable. During the last month I haven't been active in the irc room and if this actually occured and someone knows about it please let me know who did it.
Are you sure you just didn't get disconnected from the irc server?

OMG!! AA<67. FISH. FUUUUUUUUCK.

And a reply to the general idea that irc is just a place where people tell bad beats:

Like fleece said; it's bullshit. There's a rule in the irc room that you're not allowed to tell bad beats. As an example, this is what got coxhed banned from the room in the first place.

[Fortune 500]

When I was kicked? It was a while ago. And several times. We're probably talking August to September, somewhere in there. And yes, I was kicked. I know the difference between the two.

As far as the bad beats go... when I was there (and as noted, I haven't been for a long while) it was rampant and more or less unpoliced. I could get kicked for doing nothing, and this went rampant. Is it better since then? Maybe. I can't really speak on it. Like I said, my decision was personal. My whole point is just about the malicious noise in the forums (stemming from IRC) of late. Don't miss the haystack for the needle.

Good luck... I hope IRC does get reformed and improved.

[a500lbgorilla]

When I was kicked? It was a while ago. And several times. We're probably talking August to September, somewhere in there. And yes, I was kicked. I know the difference between the two.

As far as the bad beats go... when I was there (and as noted, I haven't been for a long while) it was rampant and more or less unpoliced. I could get kicked for doing nothing, and this went rampant. Is it better since then? Maybe. I can't really speak on it. Like I said, my decision was personal. My whole point is just about the malicious noise in the forums (stemming from IRC) of late. Don't miss the haystack for the needle.

Good luck... I hope IRC does get reformed and improved.

I won't point any names, but it was scgolfer. Basically, the whole flux of op shinnanigans started with scgolfers kick-fests. *points finger!*

[ake]

The kickings were way back in what people here would describe as the "good old days".

The channel is bigger now and that causes it's own trouble.

So, what I'm thinking is four ops (Two american, two european).

And some basic rules. (we've had these all the time, but let's be clearer)

No bad beats.
No Flooding.
If you need advice on a hand post it on the forum and link OR use pokerhand.org.
Suggestion?
Suggestion?

Perhaps we could make the channel perma-moderated and have a bot voice everyone who comes in. If you break the rules once you lose your voice temporarely (10mins?), rendering you unable to speak.

If you break them a second time you will get kicked.
If you break them a third time you will be banned for 30 minutes.
If you break them a forth time you will be banned for 1 day.
If you break them a fifth time you will be banned permanentely.


I don't have time to fix this right now, but in two weeks I will hopefully have some time over and I fix an eggdrop (bot) that will make the management easier for the ops. I.E having short commands for all these, like O1 <nick> will devoice <nick> for 10 minutes because of first offense etc. This bot will also auto-voice everyone that enters the channel.

[Rondavu]

Point #4 - The forums have become absolutely useless for gaining any sort of useful input on actual poker theory. Yes i said, useless. I don't remember the last time I actually read a response to a post that put forth any useful information. Typically one person responds with a cookie-cutter reply and 10 post-whores type something like "i agree with so-and-so." We need places like IRC and Vent to actually discuss poker theory, analyze hands, analyze situations etc. From the time I first found the forums (1 year) , I lost over a grand. Since I joined IRC and Vent (3 months), I've made over $10k. Coincidence....I think not.

Prove it

[dalecooper]

I don't know nothin' about IRC, but the FTR forums have been very helpful to me and have had some really interesting discussions. I've been involved in a few good ones this week alone. Anyone saying the FTR forums are an "embarrassment" is just blinded by his own personal agendas. And this idea that IRC is promoting wild profitability while FTR is just another dumping ground for sad poker losers... well, it's something else. It arrives without any evidence, proof, or even a coherent argument behind it. Basically it sounds to me like BS. But maybe I'm just another whiny baby, I dunno.

I've made in the ballpark of 3500 dollars since joining and regularly posting on FTR. I love the site. IRC may or may not help me further, who knows. But don't bag on this place to get your point across.

[ProZachNation]

Yeah theres no bad beats posted and if there are you get kicked for posting it.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Danuts, before you ever ever ever post "facts" about me...try checking them first. When you click my "most recent posts." It sorts them by the last "post" in every topic, not the last time I POSTED in them. If you are going to be a sarcastic dick, please check your info so u don't post lies please.

Point taken and I apologize. My point though was that there is poker discussion on the boards. For you to call the forums an embarassment and to say that they're "absolutely useless for gaining any sort of useful input on actual poker theory" simply isn't true and not a fair statement. Just because you don't find the information useful, doesn't mean that others don't either. The same can be said for IRC.

How did you feel when people posted about how much they thought IRC sucked? Obviously it bothered you enough to create this thread. Now how do you think it makes people feel when you say the forums suck? It stirs up anger among the people that find the forums useful. You're basically saying to all the people that take the time to write thoughtful posts that what they write is crap and not worth reading. Why didn't you just send out PMs to everyone that gave their analysis of a hand telling them that they're morons? That might not have been your intent, but that's the way you came across to me. From the reactions you're getting from others it seems that they, at least in part, feel the same way.

Again, I think there is some validity to your posts, but why present your ideas in a "bitch and moan" format? It's ironic that you call us all a bunch of "little whining babies" when your entire post was basically a temper tantrum. Reacting in that way just puts people at odds with each other and conttributes to the degeneracy of the community. Do you not see that the exact things you didn't want to see in the IRC issue you now brought to the forums? You're just comfirming to Tyson et. al that they made the correct decision in not affiliating themselves with IRC. Do you see why?

Like you said, if you don't like it then "just don't friggin read it, its not that hard." If you instead would present some constructive ideas to improve the forums then I think people would be a lot more receptive and take your other complaints seriously.

[DoGGz]

point 2
yea, no one has to read them. that doesn't mean they still arent stupid and unnecessary.

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

Tim's post was not a personal attack on anyone. Tim has a hot gf and Tim wanted to show it off. It was just a brag post. You guys started to attack Tim in my forums and I decided to put my foot down. And I was the only one to decide. If you can convince me it was harmless fun and that I missinterpreted it, I'll bring it back in a jiffy.

The problem is that it WAS harmless fun, until some people jumped it. I'm talking trace and vcq here. This is nothing special to just FTR, but to people as a whole. When I made the thread I knew that it might turn into a bashing war, but I was just hoping the FTR community was above that.

I completely understand why that topic was closed.

On the other hand, I think locking of threads, like the suicide thread, just shouldn't happen. That thread was a perfect example of an interesting topic, on relevant and new happenings, that a few people can't handle. I'm sorry you guys don't like suicide discussion, but just ignore it, don't spam PM rilla to lock the threads you dislike.

I honestly hate gay discussions that happen online, but I don't ask you not to have them, I just ignore them when they do...

[lambchopdc]

Anyone saying the FTR forums are an "embarrassment" is just blinded by his own personal agendas.

Thank you for completely proving my points....several of them.

A. Low IQ on the forum....go grab a dictionary and look up satire. The original post that Xianti put up was titled "FTR IRC is an embarassment." So this post was titled "FTR Forums are an embarassment" in response. The same way that the "Official Tim's Girlfriend is not that hot thread" was meant as a satire for the "Official Tim's Girlfriend Thread." I apologize for giving the FTR community enough credit to figure this out. I forgot how I have to spell things out for you.

B. People pick apart threads and respond to them with answers that add nothing to the discussion. Scroll up, how many people posted the exact same thing? I can think of 4 people that actually got this thread and responded with actual useful discussion material relevant to the topic, with the intent of their posts acomplishing something; Xianti, Tyson, Demi, and yes i'll say it even Trikflow. Other than that every other post has been some hyper-defensive BS about how great the forums are and how nothing needs done or a personal attack on me.

Well congratulations to most of you. You have proven yourself incapable of an intelligent discussion, proven all of my points through your own actions, and lowered yourself to behavior even beneath that of most of the "bad players with bad attitudes" that you claim frequent IRC. I hope you are proud of yourselves. GG

[Pingviini]

I wonder what has driven you to tilt like this? I truly, madly, deeply like the people in here in general even though some have wayyy more potential compared to the shit without any content they tend to write, and they are intelligent. I am starting to think that you are not by insulting us like this. It might be true that the unintelligent people incapable of an intelligent discussion havent all responded here as they perhaps should have but neither have you. you have just been bitching and whining about how everything in the forums suck. The forums are a good place to have a general discussion but if you want better teaching ask somebody in IRC or wherever to ghost you, but I am sure that you are familiar with this. Calm down, deep a couple of deep breaths and start thinking how the forums, and IRC, could be better places.

[vqc]

point 2
yea, no one has to read them. that doesn't mean they still arent stupid and unnecessary.

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

Tim's post was not a personal attack on anyone. Tim has a hot gf and Tim wanted to show it off. It was just a brag post. You guys started to attack Tim in my forums and I decided to put my foot down. And I was the only one to decide. If you can convince me it was harmless fun and that I missinterpreted it, I'll bring it back in a jiffy.

On the other hand, I think locking of threads, like the suicide thread, just shouldn't happen. That thread was a perfect example of an interesting topic, on relevant and new happenings, that a few people can't handle. I'm sorry you guys don't like suicide discussion, but just ignore it, don't spam PM rilla to lock the threads you dislike.

I honestly hate gay discussions that happen online, but I don't ask you not to have them, I just ignore them when they do...

IM not sure where to post this, i wanted to post it int he RIlla advice for the commune , and then in the muxy thread itself.

Just to clarify in as short as possible.
I dont think it was the subject manner that was offensive, it was the manner in which the issue was presented.

And to clarify the short point.
Its just like how a lot of really offensive jokes are offensive not because people dont want to discuss slavery, or talk about terrorism, or talk about rape, or talk about dead babies, but becuase its dont in a tasteless manner.

If the point of hte thread was to discuss the subject of suicide, and it was presented as a discussion, then there is no point in deleting the thread even if it offended someone.

[lambchopdc]

I wonder what has driven you to tilt like this? I truly, madly, deeply like the people in here in general even though some have wayyy more potential compared to the shit without any content they tend to write, and they are intelligent. I am starting to think that you are not by insulting us like this. It might be true that the unintelligent people incapable of an intelligent discussion havent all responded here as they perhaps should have but neither have you. you have just been bitching and whining about how everything in the forums suck. The forums are a good place to have a general discussion but if you want better teaching ask somebody in IRC or wherever to ghost you, but I am sure that you are familiar with this. Calm down, deep a couple of deep breaths and start thinking how the forums, and IRC, could be better places.

The mere fact that after 90+ posts someone can still think that this post was made to bash FTR scares me. Frightens me actually. The post was made for 2 reasons, A. To defend IRC against recent aligations. B. To point out the flaws of the forums, some of which are inevitable, and show why we need other resources such as IRC. I'm not insulting anyone, or at least trying to. I am a debater at heart. I use satire to get my points across.

Here is step 1 to what can make the forums better. Instead of everyone immediately jumping on the defense and firing off personal attacks on me and IRC, sit back, ANALYZE the points i've brought up and one by one judge them by whether or not they are merited. Very few have done this. All i've heard back from 90% of the replies has been "FTR is awesome, you are a moron, IRC sucks." So if what you say is true and the people on here are really intelligent, please have them post something worthwhile, on-topic, and useful. This thread has felt like the US election, "rather than make actual points on your ideas, just tear apart your opponents and you will win." This is my last post unless someone can present a decent argument we can actually discuss.

[lambchopdc]

*double post*
{vqc}

[Pingviini]

Well after reading the "Does Xianti hate IRC post" and seeing that IRC has been disowned, I think its time for a response.

Point #1 - The majority of the people complaining about IRC are never in IRC. Ultimate George I have never seen you in IRC and yet I have seen a few posts from you about it plus one thanking Xianti for disowning it.

Point #2 - You don't have to read every friggin community post. If the reasoning behind your hatred of an IRC channel is that you have to read little bickerings in the community, SKIP THE DAMN POST. Just don't friggin read it, its not that hard.

Point #3 - The reason there are problems is IRC is that the good players abandoned it. In the last couple weeks, players like myself and Doggz have actually been making an effort to clean things up. I started an #ftr-pokeronly channel for those who didn't want to deal with the random BS getting discussed. We've also started kick/banning people for inappropriate comments, etc. We're doing this while 4-6 tabling, thats more effort that i've seen from anyone else who's been sitting here bitching about it.

Point #4 - The forums have become absolutely useless for gaining any sort of useful input on actual poker theory. Yes i said, useless. I don't remember the last time I actually read a response to a post that put forth any useful information. Typically one person responds with a cookie-cutter reply and 10 post-whores type something like "i agree with so-and-so." We need places like IRC and Vent to actually discuss poker theory, analyze hands, analyze situations etc. From the time I first found the forums (1 year) , I lost over a grand. Since I joined IRC and Vent (3 months), I've made over $10k. Coincidence....I think not.

Point #5 - Before you delete this post and ban me, think about what I'm actually saying. I swear if this post gets insta-deleted and I get insta-banned than I have successfully proved my point that you all are little babies that can't handle real criticism and are too lazy to actually fix a problem with a good thing, you simply delete it and hope it goes away.

I leave it to you, either respond with an intelligent argument and prove to me that IQ exists on this forum. Or delete this and ban me and prove to me that you all are the little whining babies I think you are.

Ok, challenge accepted. I will answer step by step.

#1 The majority of people complaining about IRC used to be in IRC but they left because they didnt like the way it went . I have stopped by a few times lately but most of the times there have been people whining and bitching about bad beats. If that has/is about to change good then. I will stop by more often.

#2 we dont have to read every post but still ALL of the posts should be kept non-insulting to other (members). Yet, difficult subjects like suicide can be discussed. There is a fine line between a tough and a sick topic but it is up to 'rilla to decide.

#3 the reason that good people abandoned derives from two things, firstly they might be too busy grinding and secondly, and most importently, they did not like the way the IRC channel became. It is excellent that you and doggz and others have started to clean up the channel again, I appreciate it. But if you admit that the cleaning operation has started there has been things which are worth cleaning. IRC and esp. Vent are good places to change ideas but they suck when talking about exact hands without seeing those. Naturally for watching someone play they are excellent. More good stuff, less bad beats. Gotta stop by more often again as I said.

#4 "The forums have become absolutely useless for gaining any sort of useful input on actual poker theory. " NO. The quality of posts could definitely be better but still we occasionally have good threads, the problem here might be n00b/shark relatio which is too high for overally good discussion. IRC vent are good for watching others play, forums good for later analysis, they both have their places, posting HH's to IRC sucks IMO.

#5 We are trying to have a discussion about the current situation here. That is why so many have posted here.

My suggestions, nominate ops to IRC and clean up that place again, perhaps a bit more guidelines to the forums for better discussion. That is what I am suggesting. What do you suggest that should be done?

I am sure you mean well, and believe or not, so do I. But in order to get comments in a more polite tone , you should stop telling comments like: "Low IQ on the forum" and "Well congratulations to most of you. You have proven yourself incapable of an intelligent discussion, proven all of my points through your own actions, and lowered yourself to behavior even beneath that of most of the "bad players with bad attitudes" that you claim frequent IRC. I hope you are proud of yourselves. GG"

This place with such great people could have a lot more potential that it now is showing. Hopefully we can turn this into good after good and thorough discussion. Change starts from each individual. Let's show example Lambchop.

[a500lbgorilla]

Anyone saying the FTR forums are an "embarrassment" is just blinded by his own personal agendas.

Thank you for completely proving my points....several of them.

A. Low IQ on the forum....go grab a dictionary and look up satire. The original post that Xianti put up was titled "FTR IRC is an embarassment." So this post was titled "FTR Forums are an embarassment" in response. The same way that the "Official Tim's Girlfriend is not that hot thread" was meant as a satire for the "Official Tim's Girlfriend Thread." I apologize for giving the FTR community enough credit to figure this out. I forgot how I have to spell things out for you.

B. People pick apart threads and respond to them with answers that add nothing to the discussion. Scroll up, how many people posted the exact same thing? I can think of 4 people that actually got this thread and responded with actual useful discussion material relevant to the topic, with the intent of their posts acomplishing something; Xianti, Tyson, Demi, and yes i'll say it even Trikflow. Other than that every other post has been some hyper-defensive BS about how great the forums are and how nothing needs done or a personal attack on me.

Well congratulations to most of you. You have proven yourself incapable of an intelligent discussion, proven all of my points through your own actions, and lowered yourself to behavior even beneath that of most of the "bad players with bad attitudes" that you claim frequent IRC. I hope you are proud of yourselves. GG

First off, about people respond to threads saying the same thing. How is this a bad thing? So a few people make the same point in slightly different ways. Not always does the first person say it right. It's hard, especially in sngs, to answer without a "cookie-cutter" response. And I truely don't think you understand that. In sngs, the answer is usually clear and the subject has been hashed and rehashed somewhere to death. So we say "Push here." "Fold preflop." becuase those are the right answers and we all know why. If they guy asks "why push" we'll explain. But if every time I said "push" i'd have to run through a detailed explination of ICM, I'd never post. Another reason why people post the same things is becuase a forum debate is not like a person-to-person debate where one person says something, another responds, but everyone hears what everyone else says. In a forum debate, the person starts to read, sees a point he doesnt agree with and immediatly posts about it. Then continues to read. Many people do this and you don't seem to understand that dynamic either. So it seems to me like you're on a witch hunt to kill "cookie-cutter" posts when they're simply natural and they do nothing harmful to the community. It's actually one of the dumbest critisms I've ever heard. I also find it ironic how many times you've said the same thing in this thread.


"It's actually one of the dumbest critisms I've ever heard." Now I have just pulled a Lambchop. When I've become frustrated that my point doesn't seem to be sinking in, I say that everyone is stupid becuase they don't pick up on satire. Or maybe trying to pull something off in this medium to an audience of mostly college-aged/younger adult mathmatical thinkers (some of whom don't speak english as well as others) WASN'T the best idea. I don't fully understand why you believe we have a low IQ. Is it becuase I deleted the Tim's Girlfriend is Not Hot thread becuase I didn't "get it"? If it is, then I'm just going to walk away from this conversation becuase clearly you were not hearing me before. Is it becuase people think you're bashing the forum when you say things like "The people within this forum are stupid." Not a direct quote, but how I read it.

You may believe that you are right and that you have the moral high ground in this argument but you do not have a very good way of getting your point across. With your posts, it takes a lot of maturity to not degrade these arguments into a flame war.

Now, I've sat back and I've analyzed and here's what I've seen. And please, just listen.

1) IRC was created to help augment the FTR experience. Take noobs and boobs and turn them into sharks with freaking lazer beams attached to their heads.

2) It went well while soupie was running the show. People respect soupie and soupie rules with an iron fist.

3) Becuase of the weaknesses in the format (the fact that it is difficult to play and type) the expert players moved to vent to carry on poker related conversations.

4) While vent thrived under soupian rule, IRC remained a leaderless cesspool of immaturity.

5) Dwarfman steped in but once puberty kicked him square in the nuts, it became clear he was making things much, much worse. Those who were active in IRC were not ops and those who were ops were just not active. The system failed. Those who were in a position to fix it did not have the time or energy to do so.

6) The bickering and fighting cuased by the sinking FTR ship spilled over into the forums and into the eyes of people like Xianti, UG, and forum goers who did and maybe even did not know about IRC. The childishness made us look very bad and it seemed as though IRC was no longer performing its function of poker education.

7) Xianti decided to remove the FTR affiliation.

8) Lambchop was outraged. IRC had helped him so much that it would be a crime to remove such a valuable tool.

9) Lambchop's awesome mind with the ability to see patterns in even patternless situations decided that this coupled with my locking of the Tim's gf is Not Hot thread and the "cookie cutter" responses that pepper the FTR forums were enough to say that something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. And so Lambchop sprang to action, flying to his desktop and pouring his heart and soul but he was greatly aggrivated when the tone of his post did not translate properly.

Now we're here. You feel that IRC should be brought back becuase it helps noobs. You want something to be done with the moderation of the forums but I'm still not sure what. You want healthy debate in the forums.

I feel IRC should be fixed and then brought back. So fix it.

I feel I do need to establish a doctraine of my Community reign and am doing so.

I feel that there exists very healthy debate in the forums and I have seen it daily. The problem is that people like myself who have posted for over a year now and have tried to keep content up have burned out. I don't see content I want to argue over any more. When I see a thread, it's hardly ever an argument. It's me explaining something. The only way to bring content up would be for the new wave of ftr posters to do it themselves. They need the next Rondavu, gabe, vq, soupie, etc. The burden cannot be put on the veteran posters becuase it becomes a lecture, not an argument. FTR will/has become one big machine, churning out the FTR-way of playing AQs against an ep limper from the CO with 15 bets on the bubble. The only way to keep argument high would be for the vets to phase out and for the new guys to NOT have them as a resource. So that they must seek within themselves an answer. So every time I post, I keep the newbies from holding debate between themselves and therefore keep the general content down.

Also, don't end posts in GG. It's just the final spit in the face and you know it.

[ake]

pingviini, just a quick word to you. Turn on logging of irc if you don't use it already, join the channel and save the logs of all the people whining and talking bad beats. Then PM me with them, cause I'd really like to see them.

You know I'm on irc a lot, and I don't see this happening often at all. (Last month excluded cause I haven't been around)


Now, moving on. These are the currents ops of irc: doggz, lampchopdc, me

No one else right now. We need atleast one more european op, suggestions are welcome. But only by people who have atleast spent some time in the irc channel.

As for rules, we can discuss this and set up a small website stating the rules later on

Edit:

I'd like to nominate Pingviini for op. If you're willing (and able) to spend more time in irc I'm sure you'd make a good op. And then we'd have two american and two european ops.

[dalecooper]

Thank you for completely proving my points....several of them.

A. Low IQ on the forum....go grab a dictionary and look up satire. The original post that Xianti put up was titled "FTR IRC is an embarassment." So this post was titled "FTR Forums are an embarassment" in response. The same way that the "Official Tim's Girlfriend is not that hot thread" was meant as a satire for the "Official Tim's Girlfriend Thread." I apologize for giving the FTR community enough credit to figure this out. I forgot how I have to spell things out for you.

I didn't see the original thread, and you didn't link to it. I understand satire completely; I just didn't have the evidence to realize that your title was referencing something else. The only thread you actually referred to, you said had THIS title: "Does Xianti hate IRC post". How are you expecting me to put two and two together and come up with five? I'm not some hyper-aware being that reads every thread on every FTR forum. I'm lucky to make a quick scan of the community section once or twice a day. Sue me. You did in fact say in your post - unless this was "satire" too - that the forums have become "useless" for discussing poker. Did I misinterpret that as well?

Your assumption that my ignorance of your satire = low IQ, is a faulty one. Maybe more faulty than it would be for me to assume that *you* have a low IQ because you have no idea how to spell "allegations."

B. People pick apart threads and respond to them with answers that add nothing to the discussion. Scroll up, how many people posted the exact same thing?

The exact same thing? None. I had a specific point to make about the poker content on these forums today, and how they've affected my winning rate. More to the point, your argument contained a claim that you hardly know anyone that the FTR forums are helping, but you know all these phantom people making a shit-ton of cash by using IRC. If that's not an open invitation for comment by basically everyone posting here, I don't know what is. You can't make that kind of claim without having evidence to back it up. And the only evidence you could possibly get is polling everyone who reads FTR and everyone who uses IRC. I'm sorry if it's repetitive, but it's not pointless information.

I can think of 4 people that actually got this thread and responded with actual useful discussion material relevant to the topic, with the intent of their posts acomplishing something; Xianti, Tyson, Demi, and yes i'll say it even Trikflow. Other than that every other post has been some hyper-defensive BS about how great the forums are and how nothing needs done or a personal attack on me.

My original post was not especially defensive and contained no personal attacks on you. I would encourage you to re-read it. My only real problem with you and your thread is that *you* seem to have a really aggressive and, yes, defensive attitude. You suggest right up front that you're going to be martyred for your oh-so-controversial opinions. You practically begged for a ban while sneering that if you were banned, it would only prove your point. Your attitude is immature. Then you conclude by pre-empting any criticism of your argument: anyone who disagrees with me is a whiny baby. Well done, sir; you've mastered second-rate trolling.

You are not really looking to incite useful, constructive discussion. If you were, you wouldn't go so far out of your way to rile people up. There's a diplomatic way to improve the state of IRC and the forums, and you went deliberately in the opposite direction. Why, again, should anyone be interested in responding to you in a nice, conciliatory tone - or care enough to be reasonable and try to have an intelligent conversation with you? I think by posting a fairly short and measured response to just one of your points, I was giving you better than you deserved. I should have just bagged on your stupidity like you're trying to do to me & most everyone else.

Well congratulations to most of you. You have proven yourself incapable of an intelligent discussion, proven all of my points through your own actions, and lowered yourself to behavior even beneath that of most of the "bad players with bad attitudes" that you claim frequent IRC. I hope you are proud of yourselves. GG

And I hope *you're* proud. You've done nothing but demonstrate how far up your own ass you've managed to wriggle. nh (and yes, that's satire)

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Anyone saying the FTR forums are an "embarrassment" is just blinded by his own personal agendas.

Thank you for completely proving my points....several of them.

A. Low IQ on the forum....go grab a dictionary and look up satire. The original post that Xianti put up was titled "FTR IRC is an embarassment." So this post was titled "FTR Forums are an embarassment" in response. The same way that the "Official Tim's Girlfriend is not that hot thread" was meant as a satire for the "Official Tim's Girlfriend Thread." I apologize for giving the FTR community enough credit to figure this out. I forgot how I have to spell things out for you.

B. People pick apart threads and respond to them with answers that add nothing to the discussion. Scroll up, how many people posted the exact same thing? I can think of 4 people that actually got this thread and responded with actual useful discussion material relevant to the topic, with the intent of their posts acomplishing something; Xianti, Tyson, Demi, and yes i'll say it even Trikflow. Other than that every other post has been some hyper-defensive BS about how great the forums are and how nothing needs done or a personal attack on me.

Well congratulations to most of you. You have proven yourself incapable of an intelligent discussion, proven all of my points through your own actions, and lowered yourself to behavior even beneath that of most of the "bad players with bad attitudes" that you claim frequent IRC. I hope you are proud of yourselves. GG

Congratulations Lambchop. You were a dick in your first post, but were to hide behind the convenient guise of satire. This post proves that many people's inital responses were justified. We may be dumbasses, but we can still appreciate the underlying tone of your posts.

The way you just countered everyone's "hyper-sensitive BS" with more of your own was well done. Wait... was that really more satire or just plain irony? Either way, GG to you too sir.

I'd like to apologize on behalf of everyone that "personally attacked" you. You of course didn't resort to name calling or any similar behavior... Now that has to be irony, right? Or is it satire? If I wasn't so dumb maybe I could figure it out.

The thing about satire is that it is typically witty. The fact that your original rant was devoid of it was probably the reason that your message was lost among the lower IQ crowd.

You said we proved your point that we're incapable of intelligent discussion. Proving, in your own mind, that the FTR community is comprised of morons is an excellent reason to post my friend. Again, GG.

We may be dumb, our favorite word may be "pwned", and we might play poker for reasons other than making thousands of dollars, but despite our low intelligence we somehow manage to enjoy each others company and whatever responses we give have good intentions, although some people may think differently.

Like Rippy's post points out... all this bickering and arguing is pointless. It does nothing but satisfy the points you have on your personal agenda, and contributes nothing to the betterment of FTR despite your insistance that your trying to make improvements.

If you really have such a problem with the forums then I suggest you come down off your high horse and mingle with us dumbasses for awhile. It's much easier for us to carry on a civil conversation when we're not constantly straining our necks. If you don't want to then leave and take your bad attitude with you. I'm not commenting on any other posts you may have made, just the ones in this thread. They're nothing but derisive and it's uncalled for. That type of attitude has no place.

[Xianti]

Okay... this thread is now deteriorating into nothing good.

If things aren't turned around with further posts, this topic will be locked.

[elipsesjeff]

Well, I tried to read the entire thread but I believe it to be worthless from after the first page.

Anyway, I used to be an avid IRC member back in the day when Gabe was still a newb. I was when Fnord, lonnie, gutshot, Tyler, Mike, Hyper, and other premium members were there too. However, one by one we all left and found other things to take care of our time. I realized had I spent 1/2 the time bullshitting on IRC playing poker, I'd be making more money.

Thats when I found ventrillo and was actually able to TALK to the most profilic members still on FTR and still only about poker.

Maybe its just me, but other than demi, no LHE posters are on here and this thread bitching. It just strenthens my bias towards the LHE and HSLHE section as being the best and most polite group of posters out there. All you NL players need to get your ego checked and your heads out of your asses and just do what you came here to do, play poker. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Okay... this thread is now deteriorating into nothing good.

If things aren't turned around with further posts, this topic will be locked.

Actually I think the thread is finally starting to go in a better direction. Rilla, Dale and I simply responded to lambchop in a manner that he seems to understand. He voiced his frustrations in an inappropriate manner and set the standard for all subsequent responses. Now if we all finally have it out of our system maybe we can possibly have constructive dialogue.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Maybe its just me, but other than demi, no LHE posters are on here and this thread bitching. It just strenthens my bias towards the LHE and HSLHE section as being the best and most polite group of posters out there. All you NL players need to get your ego checked and your heads out of your asses and just do what you came here to do, play poker. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

WTF is this? Yes, it certainly strengthens your point that you guys are the most polite.....

Just when this thread seems like it might turn around you go and pull this gem of a statement out of your ass.

Go ahead and lock this.

[DoGGz]

Okay... this thread is now deteriorating into nothing good.

If things aren't turned around with further posts, this topic will be locked.

Actually I think the thread is finally starting to go in a better direction. Rilla, Dale and I simply responded to lambchop in a manner that he seems to understand. He voiced his frustrations in an inappropriate manner and set the standard for all subsequent responses. Now if we all finally have it out of our system maybe we can possibly have constructive dialogue.

I feel the overlaying problem to this whole thread is the defenciveness is which it was recieved. Lamb does not butter things up. He just speaks exactly what he feels, and apparently this is "inappropriate".

Just so you know, what you believe to be appropriate may not be what someone else does. Outside the flame attacks, I feel this thread is completely appropriate for the resent happenings.

[dalecooper]

I'm not trying to start up trouble.
--
The mere fact that after 90+ posts someone can still think that this post was made to bash FTR scares me. Frightens me actually. The post was made for 2 reasons, A. To defend IRC against recent aligations. B. To point out the flaws of the forums, some of which are inevitable, and show why we need other resources such as IRC. I'm not insulting anyone, or at least trying to.

The forums have become absolutely useless for gaining any sort of useful input on actual poker theory. Yes i said, useless. I don't remember the last time I actually read a response to a post that put forth any useful information.
--
From the time I first found the forums (1 year) , I lost over a grand. Since I joined IRC and Vent (3 months), I've made over $10k. Coincidence....I think not.
--
I swear if this post gets insta-deleted and I get insta-banned than I have successfully proved my point that you all are little babies that can't handle real criticism and are too lazy to actually fix a problem with a good thing
--
Or delete this and ban me and prove to me that you all are the little whining babies I think you are.
--
You have proven yourself incapable of an intelligent discussion, proven all of my points through your own actions, and lowered yourself to behavior even beneath that of most of the "bad players with bad attitudes" that you claim frequent IRC.
--
If you are going to be a sarcastic dick, please check your info so u don't post lies please.
--
I'm dead serious and I can think of about 5-6 people who completely agree with me on that and make a ton more money than 90% of FTR.
--
Ok so if the team (the forums) is still as good. Where are all the new high rollers? Where's the huge profits? Where is the new michael1123 or new ilikeaces86 on the forums? Please point me to them, please. I'm not against the forums, all i'm saying is that something is obviously missing. Cuz i see people who have been playing $10 + $20 SNGs for a year. The team is <.500. Playoffs aren't looking good.

Your words contradict your other words.

You say you aren't trying to stir up trouble or insult people, but you use language and at times whole sentences and paragraphs that do exactly that, on no uncertain terms. You tell people they aren't very smart, they're whiny babies, they are incapable of intelligent discussion, they are dicks, they are liars, they are less successful than the people on IRC, the forums they post on aren't helpful or useful... well, I just have to wonder out loud: what is required, in your view, to actually insult somebody? Do you have to kick them in the crotch repeatedly WHILE you're saying all of the above?

You might think you're operating in the realm of satire, but few others are taking it that way. And despite what you seem to think there's plenty of people around here with pretty high IQ's. So maybe you should take a second to re-evaluate what YOU are doing, and determine if maybe YOU got it wrong somewhere along the line.

[DoGGz]

point 2
yea, no one has to read them. that doesn't mean they still arent stupid and unnecessary.

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

Tim's post was not a personal attack on anyone. Tim has a hot gf and Tim wanted to show it off. It was just a brag post. You guys started to attack Tim in my forums and I decided to put my foot down. And I was the only one to decide. If you can convince me it was harmless fun and that I missinterpreted it, I'll bring it back in a jiffy.

On the other hand, I think locking of threads, like the suicide thread, just shouldn't happen. That thread was a perfect example of an interesting topic, on relevant and new happenings, that a few people can't handle. I'm sorry you guys don't like suicide discussion, but just ignore it, don't spam PM rilla to lock the threads you dislike.

I honestly hate gay discussions that happen online, but I don't ask you not to have them, I just ignore them when they do...

IM not sure where to post this, i wanted to post it int he RIlla advice for the commune , and then in the muxy thread itself.

Just to clarify in as short as possible.
I dont think it was the subject manner that was offensive, it was the manner in which the issue was presented.

And to clarify the short point.
Its just like how a lot of really offensive jokes are offensive not because people dont want to discuss slavery, or talk about terrorism, or talk about rape, or talk about dead babies, but becuase its dont in a tasteless manner.

If the point of hte thread was to discuss the subject of suicide, and it was presented as a discussion, then there is no point in deleting the thread even if it offended someone.

I'll just post what I have already said in that thread.

You are way too sensitive to what happens on the internet. The point of the suicide thread was not only to discuss what happened, but to LAUGH and JOPKE about it. He killed himself, but the posts about it, and the paradies of if it are funny.

Just because you personally think something is tasteless, doesn't mean we all are subjective to your point of view. It is completely up to the board owners and the moderaters to find the line in which they feel is too far.

The suicide thread is in no way 'too far'.

[a500lbgorilla]

All you NL players need to get your ego checked and your heads out of your asses and just do what you came here to do, play poker. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

Common now, that's unfair and you've got to know it. You yourself just said in the lines before that you only read inside 2 forums. You're making a generalization with nothing behind it but a selective memory.

-'rilla

[a500lbgorilla]

point 2
yea, no one has to read them. that doesn't mean they still arent stupid and unnecessary.

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

Tim's post was not a personal attack on anyone. Tim has a hot gf and Tim wanted to show it off. It was just a brag post. You guys started to attack Tim in my forums and I decided to put my foot down. And I was the only one to decide. If you can convince me it was harmless fun and that I missinterpreted it, I'll bring it back in a jiffy.

On the other hand, I think locking of threads, like the suicide thread, just shouldn't happen. That thread was a perfect example of an interesting topic, on relevant and new happenings, that a few people can't handle. I'm sorry you guys don't like suicide discussion, but just ignore it, don't spam PM rilla to lock the threads you dislike.

I honestly hate gay discussions that happen online, but I don't ask you not to have them, I just ignore them when they do...

IM not sure where to post this, i wanted to post it int he RIlla advice for the commune , and then in the muxy thread itself.

Just to clarify in as short as possible.
I dont think it was the subject manner that was offensive, it was the manner in which the issue was presented.

And to clarify the short point.
Its just like how a lot of really offensive jokes are offensive not because people dont want to discuss slavery, or talk about terrorism, or talk about rape, or talk about dead babies, but becuase its dont in a tasteless manner.

If the point of hte thread was to discuss the subject of suicide, and it was presented as a discussion, then there is no point in deleting the thread even if it offended someone.

I'll just post what I have already said in that thread.

You are way too sensitive to what happens on the internet. The point of the suicide thread was not only to discuss what happened, but to LAUGH and JOPKE about it. He killed himself, but the posts about it, and the paradies of if it are funny.

Just because you personally think something is tasteless, doesn't mean we all are subjective to your point of view. It is completely up to the board owners and the moderaters to find the line in which they feel is too far.

The suicide thread is in no way 'too far'.

To you it was not too far. To me it was not too far. To gabe it was too far. To VQC it was too far.

You yourself just said that what is inappropriate to some is not to others.

So what do you suggest be the golden standard for deciding what happens to these "boarderline" threads? Request that those who do not like it not read or ask that those who do like it take the conversation somewhere privately?

[Demiparadigm]

Maybe its just me, but other than demi, no LHE posters are on here and this thread bitching.

I am not bitching

Way to perpetuate the personal atacks :P
(j/k) In case someone missed the "satire"

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Okay... this thread is now deteriorating into nothing good.

If things aren't turned around with further posts, this topic will be locked.

Actually I think the thread is finally starting to go in a better direction. Rilla, Dale and I simply responded to lambchop in a manner that he seems to understand. He voiced his frustrations in an inappropriate manner and set the standard for all subsequent responses. Now if we all finally have it out of our system maybe we can possibly have constructive dialogue.

I feel the overlaying problem to this whole thread is the defenciveness is which it was recieved. Lamb does not butter things up. He just speaks exactly what he feels, and apparently this is "inappropriate".

Just so you know, what you believe to be appropriate may not be what someone else does. Outside the flame attacks, I feel this thread is completely appropriate for the resent happenings.

Put aside your friendship for a second and re-read what he wrote. I don't think I am alone in feeling that name calling, insults, and a generally derisive attitude is inappropriate. You're right that the content is appropriate. The way it is presented is not, and that's what people were responding to and hence the defensiveness.

[a500lbgorilla]

Maybe its just me, but other than demi, no LHE posters are on here and this thread bitching.

I am not bitching

Way to perpetuate the personal atacks :P
(j/k) In case someone missed the "satire"

From now on, all LHE players will be refered to as the Sisterhood of the Traveling Caps.

[vqc]

point 2
yea, no one has to read them. that doesn't mean they still arent stupid and unnecessary.

I agree entirely, but Tim V. posting tons of pictures of his woman...totally stupid and unnecessary also. And when we decided to make fun of it, we got our post deleted. Apparantly unnecessary is ok as long as the mods agree with it.

Tim's post was not a personal attack on anyone. Tim has a hot gf and Tim wanted to show it off. It was just a brag post. You guys started to attack Tim in my forums and I decided to put my foot down. And I was the only one to decide. If you can convince me it was harmless fun and that I missinterpreted it, I'll bring it back in a jiffy.

On the other hand, I think locking of threads, like the suicide thread, just shouldn't happen. That thread was a perfect example of an interesting topic, on relevant and new happenings, that a few people can't handle. I'm sorry you guys don't like suicide discussion, but just ignore it, don't spam PM rilla to lock the threads you dislike.

I honestly hate gay discussions that happen online, but I don't ask you not to have them, I just ignore them when they do...

IM not sure where to post this, i wanted to post it int he RIlla advice for the commune , and then in the muxy thread itself.

Just to clarify in as short as possible.
I dont think it was the subject manner that was offensive, it was the manner in which the issue was presented.

And to clarify the short point.
Its just like how a lot of really offensive jokes are offensive not because people dont want to discuss slavery, or talk about terrorism, or talk about rape, or talk about dead babies, but becuase its dont in a tasteless manner.

If the point of hte thread was to discuss the subject of suicide, and it was presented as a discussion, then there is no point in deleting the thread even if it offended someone.

Just because you personally think something is tasteless, doesn't mean we all are subjective to your point of view. It is completely up to the board owners and the moderaters to find the line in which they feel is too far.

The suicide thread is in no way 'too far'.

We are all giving our opinions on the subject here and I gave you mine. Obviously u disagree and thats fine.

Just becuase you think its tasteful doesnt mean that I am subject to ur point of view. Right? I mean if it goes one way it goes both ways. Becuase I was one of the people who believed that it should be locked, I also thought that it was fitting for me to explain my point of view.

I am one of the moderators.

Im not sure what ur mentality is, in satisfying different parties in a disagreement. In a situation where group A (the majority) is not offended, but would otherwise care less if the topic is removed (or would care alot if it was removed), and group B (the minority) is offended and cares strongly as to what should happen, should it be that we take the majority point of view, or do we attempt to alienate no one by satisyfing the few (if it does happen to be that the majority could care less). Obviously that too is up to debate.

in the end its not a big deal.
We just hav differing points of view.

Just wanted to give my opinion on the situation .

[dalecooper]

You're right that the content is appropriate. The way it is presented is not, and that's what people were responding to and hence the defensiveness.

agreed

/post-whore
//satire

[EricE]

So somebody that cares [because I don’t] should start a thread titled “The nice mannered thread: What to do with IRC” or some such. Then we can have an actual discussion about IRC and how it is going to get fixed enough to be acceptable as an FTR affiliate. That is, if there is more that needs to be said.

Then this thread can die a natural death.

[DoGGz]

Okay... this thread is now deteriorating into nothing good.

If things aren't turned around with further posts, this topic will be locked.

Actually I think the thread is finally starting to go in a better direction. Rilla, Dale and I simply responded to lambchop in a manner that he seems to understand. He voiced his frustrations in an inappropriate manner and set the standard for all subsequent responses. Now if we all finally have it out of our system maybe we can possibly have constructive dialogue.

I feel the overlaying problem to this whole thread is the defenciveness is which it was recieved. Lamb does not butter things up. He just speaks exactly what he feels, and apparently this is "inappropriate".

Just so you know, what you believe to be appropriate may not be what someone else does. Outside the flame attacks, I feel this thread is completely appropriate for the resent happenings.

Put aside your friendship for a second and re-read what he wrote. I don't think I am alone in feeling that name calling, insults, and a generally derisive attitude is inappropriate. You're right that the content is appropriate. The way it is presented is not, and that's what people were responding to and hence the defensiveness.

Where is the shruging smilie when I need it? *shrug*

Right when he posted this I knew the responces it was going to get. It is no secret that when someone posts a discussion, especially one such as this (against the institution), that it will garner a lot of defensiveness responces.

The problem is what some people see as appropriate, and what others don't. I see this thread as appropriate, but that doesn't mean it is in this community. Lamb just needs the wisdom to tone his posts when the time is right. He knows very well that this post was no going to really solve anything, and that it was definately to harsh for this community. He wanted to get a point across and this is the best way he knows how.

I've known lamb for like 4 weeks, so I'm not really sure why we are attached at the hip in these posts

[lambchopdc]

ROFL

.....LOL....OMG....ROFL.....i can't take it anymore....its too easy...i can't....i just can't....OK I GIVE UP.....using passionate logical satire and hardcore honesty with you people appears to be about the equivalent of bluffing a calling station...I quit....ROFL...HAHAHAHAHA....LOL...WOW.....

[dalecooper]

"passionate logical satire and hardcore honesty"? You must be better than Jesus. At least that's the feeling I get.

[a500lbgorilla]

Alright, I was a bit off base with how I approached this problem and I hope you can all see my plea for forgiveness.

I forgive you, bro. Sometimes everyone just needs a get out of jail free card.

[a500lbgorilla]

The thread is over. Lamb said he's done with it.

All he wants is IRC back. All I want is IRC fixed. Let's do both!

[lambchopdc]

Rilla, this thread has been taken way out of proportion. I don't even feel like sorting it out anymore, I give up, I surrender, whatever just end it. Lock/Delete, whatever you feel is necessary. Apparantly I suck at getting my points across in text without pissing off 30 people, for that I concede defeat, lets move on.