FTR AMA: Online Pro & FTR Legend "Renton" (Closed)

[givememyleg]

Next up for FTR AMA is FTR legend Renton. Renton joined FTR in early 2006 starting his online career at Party Poker. He quickly built his roll up to $10,000, left his job, and has been a pro player ever since. (If I totally botched his intro will inaccuracies I'm sure he can clean those up.)

As with Max, Renton's schedule doesn't really fit into a standard AMA with a set time. Because of this, you can ask your questions whenever and renton will login to answer throughout the week.

Renton has an incredible poker mind and published the ABCD Theorem back in 2008, so ask him anything about poker, or life in general!

[givememyleg]

could you expand a bit more on how you got started in poker? how long was the the timeline from starting to going pro?

i believe you have been in and out of the country since black friday - how has that been for you? was the choice to leave the US after BF easy? where did you end up staying?

worst downswing you've gone through? best poker day/week?

[BankItDrew]

I've never liked LHE but always thought it was an easy game. Should I make the transition?

[rong]

Do you feel your abcd theorem is the best structure for learning nlh beyond the basics?

Any particular eureka moment?

Still in Chiang Mai? Did you ever get out and explore/travel?

[Eric]

What do you miss the most about the US?

What do you think about the fact that they legalized pot in Washington yet it is a felony to play online poker there?

[spoonitnow]

Should I post Amanda's tits? What's the most redneck thing you've ever seen IRL? Have you scored a 3-way with Asian chicks yet?

[rpm]

how important do you consider an understanding of GTO strategy at 200nl and lower?

[jyms]

You're probably one of probably 2-3 people I can think of that I would think understands the online game from SSNL to mid/high stakes whether you're playing in them or friends/acquaintances with players in those levels. Is it still possible to climb out of the micros/SSNL games to make some decent change in the current state of the games and obviously it is not as easy as it was even in 2009.

Also, what would you do right now if you were sitting on a $500 roll and wanted to get back to midstakes?

[Renton]

could you expand a bit more on how you got started in poker? how long was the the timeline from starting to going pro?

I got started in late 2005, just goofing off in freerolls at my local bar. I made a couple of 50 dollar deposits on Party Poker which busted mostly playing 5$ and 10$ MTTs and SNGs. By early '06 I was discovering lucrative potential of bonuses offered by the plethora of poker sites around at the time (not the lucrative potential of poker itself, mind you).

I had a good day-job working for an architect while I was in my third year of college. So I made a few 500 dollar deposits to begin clearing 20% bonuses on the Party skins playing 25nl. Back in these days the bonuses were equal to more than 100% rakeback so it didn't take me long to clear. If I recall I made more than 2000 dolllars less than 3 weeks doing this alone. I was not good at poker but I played really tight and the games were really good.

This thread basically sums that period up. My goal was to make >10k in 3 months, which many people said I couldn't do. I ran kind of decent and made my goal in 74 days.

My memory is a little hazy after this, but I basically got bored with my job and didn't have enough time to work part time AND go to school AND play poker, and I was making more at poker anyway by the time summer 2006 rolled around so thats about when I "went pro."

i believe you have been in and out of the country since black friday - how has that been for you? was the choice to leave the US after BF easy? where did you end up staying?

I've been in Thailand since shortly after black friday. The decision was fairly easy although I'd never left the country before. I'm happy with the choice overall, although I do miss America.

worst downswing you've gone through? best poker day/week?

Worst downswing, like 65 buyins at midstakes cash over the course of 150,000 hands or so. Best day, I've had 3-4 days where I earned between 10 and 15 thousand, the higher end being a tourney I won, the others being cash. Best week, not sure, probably 20k or so.

[Renton]

I've never liked LHE but always thought it was an easy game. Should I make the transition?

Seems like you are going for humor here, but I'll bite. No. Although when I started the bonus whoring campaign that I mentioned earlier, I originally wanted to do LHE instead because the rake was much more.

[Renton]

Do you feel your abcd theorem is the best structure for learning nlh beyond the basics?

Any particular eureka moment?

Still in Chiang Mai? Did you ever get out and explore/travel?

To be honest I'm not sure about that. I think that is more basic that not. The constraints of the theorem probably should be shed by an intermediate, as its mainly a simplistic way of sorting ranges. That said, even many marginally successful midstakes players fail to grasp such principles.

I've never had a eureka moment in poker. It's been a pretty constant grinding stuggle to be honest.

Yeah I'm still in Chiang Mai but I've seen a decent amount of places around here. I'm gonna hang out in Phnom Penh for a couple of months soon.

[Renton]

What do you miss the most about the US?

What do you think about the fact that they legalized pot in Washington yet it is a felony to play online poker there?

I few weeks ago I would have said hamburgers, but I actually luckboxed a place here that makes a good burger. Now, it's really just friends and family. I'm very poor at keeping contact with people, its just a flaw in my personality and I'm finding that I'm less and less relevant to these people's lives by the day.

Re: the Washington double standard, I dunno. Seems to me like the same thing will happen with marijuana as would happen if the state legalized online poker; the federal government will intervene and prohibit. It seems like these ballot initiatives are just a platform of protest against big government and for the Tenth Amendment.

[Renton]

Should I post Amanda's tits? What's the most redneck thing you've ever seen IRL? Have you scored a 3-way with Asian chicks yet?

1) I haven't talked to her in like forever. So sure.
2) Man this is such a tough one. I'll give it some thought and reply later.
3) Nope.

[Renton]

how important do you consider an understanding of GTO strategy at 200nl and lower?

Not terribly important. I think you just need to know the basics of game theory and keep it in your back pocket in case you have to deal with a low information situation. In most cases the GTO strategy not the best strategy, especially at the stakes you mentioned. My opinion is that the more common the situation is, and the more unknown the opponent is (assuming its known that he's a TAG), the more useful the GTO strategy becomes.

[Renton]

You're probably one of probably 2-3 people I can think of that I would think understands the online game from SSNL to mid/high stakes whether you're playing in them or friends/acquaintances with players in those levels. Is it still possible to climb out of the micros/SSNL games to make some decent change in the current state of the games and obviously it is not as easy as it was even in 2009.

Also, what would you do right now if you were sitting on a $500 roll and wanted to get back to midstakes?

To be honest I don't think I'm one of those 2/3 people anymore. I really haven't played anything but 1/2+ in a while, and, to be honest, I haven't played poker much during the last few months. That said I would never suggest someone to do this for a living from scratch in 2012. Do it as a fun hobby, if you discover a natural knack for it then have at it, but otherwise it seems like a poor choice for a fledgling career.

With 500, I'd just start at 25nl like I did in 2006, and move up at 1000, 2000, and 5000.

[BankItDrew]

I'm at the beginning stages of a transition towards being a player in the stock markets. It seems like a logical step from poker because of its number analysis, risk, etc. Have you dabbled in this field at all? If so, can you recommend a broker? I have a mortgage with Scotiabank so the most logical thing to do is go with Scotia iTrade, but the customer service sucks. A broker with an iPhone app would be ideal too.

[BankItDrew]

I'm sorry if my previous question seemed trolly and derailing. I can assure you that I was being serious.

More of a poker related question: I will be spending a bunch of weeks in Vegas in June 2013 and I'd like to hear input regarding your favorite poker rooms. My personal preference is Venetian, but I think a lot of it depends on which hotel I'll be staying at.

[rong]

Yeah I'm still in Chiang Mai but I've seen a decent amount of places around here. I'm gonna hang out in Phnom Penh for a couple of months soon.

While you're in Cambodia, if you see some furniture/homeware artisans/craftpersons that are producing good quality products which don't appear too mainstream, feel free to take some pics, ask about wholesale prices and message me the details.

It might sound like a stupid request, but lots of tourists look around those kinda places and I need justification to spend time and money going there as a business expense.

[ilikeaces86]

What stakes/games do you put in most of your volume at these days?

Ever propped for any site?

6M, you hold 1010 in the CO raise 3x and some nit 3 bets you to 10x from the sb (4.5% 3 bet), 100 bb effective call or fold?

[Pascal]

Hi renton

What's your favourite country in the world and why?

When you do play a lot, do you have some sort of routine?

I'm assuming you play LHE still from what I've read in this thread - do you ever wish you'd started off and moved up playing a different game type?

[Renton]

I'm at the beginning stages of a transition towards being a player in the stock markets. It seems like a logical step from poker because of its number analysis, risk, etc. Have you dabbled in this field at all? If so, can you recommend a broker? I have a mortgage with Scotiabank so the most logical thing to do is go with Scotia iTrade, but the customer service sucks. A broker with an iPhone app would be ideal too.

I goofed around with forex for a few months several years ago. My general opinion of high-volume / high-leverage trading is that it is a really bad idea for 90% of people who are doing it. But to be honest I'm not that informed on the subject.

[Renton]

I'm sorry if my previous question seemed trolly and derailing. I can assure you that I was being serious.

More of a poker related question: I will be spending a bunch of weeks in Vegas in June 2013 and I'd like to hear input regarding your favorite poker rooms. My personal preference is Venetian, but I think a lot of it depends on which hotel I'll be staying at.

I haven't played in Vegas for years, but my guess is the games are pretty bad these days. If I were to try live-proing it there, the first thing I'd do is bounce all over town and try to keep my finger on the pulse of live poker in the area, and try to get the scoop on the best games. When I played there in 09' Venetian was one of the nicest cardrooms but the games weren't very good. I just think you need to really be on top of game selection to function properly as a live pro.

[Renton]

While you're in Cambodia, if you see some furniture/homeware artisans/craftpersons that are producing good quality products which don't appear too mainstream, feel free to take some pics, ask about wholesale prices and message me the details.

It might sound like a stupid request, but lots of tourists look around those kinda places and I need justification to spend time and money going there as a business expense.

Hmm I'll be on the lookout.

[Renton]

What stakes/games do you put in most of your volume at these days?

Ever propped for any site?

6M, you hold 1010 in the CO raise 3x and some nit 3 bets you to 10x from the sb (4.5% 3 bet), 100 bb effective call or fold?

1) 1/2-10/20 full ring on stars, 2/4 and 3/6 six max on stars. I refuse to play six max at 1/2 and below due to rake.

2) No.

3) Well I think 4-betting is probably +ev even vs the average 4.5% overall 3-betting nit, so I certainly wouldn't fold. These days people don't really cold call a single raise in the small blind so I'd expect even this guy to have a pretty wide range, 8 or 9% of hands at least. I'd also expect him to be folding to 4bets more often than not. If I was fairly aware of his style of playing in 3-bet pots I would call, but otherwise I'd just stack off and expect most of the profit to come from fold equity.

FWIW your success in the early days on Party (2005/2006) was a major inspiration to me.

[Renton]

Hi renton

What's your favourite country in the world and why?

When you do play a lot, do you have some sort of routine?

I'm assuming you play LHE still from what I've read in this thread - do you ever wish you'd started off and moved up playing a different game type?

1) Well so far I've only been to USA, Thailand, Cambodia and Laos. I'd rank them in that order. Thailand is great but I don't know if I'd go so far to say that it's better than America. Maybe if they didn't have such a creepy personality cult around the king I'd like it here more. That said, this place is a pretty amazing place to be an expat. I just wouldn't want to be born here, even if it is miles better than the neighboring countries in SE Asia.

2) I had a major downswing to begin this year and I began prioritizing other things in my life so I actually haven't played much for a while. I'm becoming a bit jaded at online poker so I'm gonna make an honest attempt at live poker. My goal is to either love it and be successful at it, or hate it with a passion and start pining for online poker again. Either way I'll be on track to making more profitable use of my time.

3) I've never really played LHE. 95% of my play has been NLHE cash and the other 5% have been tournaments.

[Pascal]

Phew, you aren't completely crazy then

What do you think about live poker so far? I think I can struggle to pay attention at the table to the small things - I know the ideas of what to look for, tracking pot sizes when I'm not in the pot, etc- but I'm so used to playing online I think I expect stuff like that to be handed to me on a plate. Do you struggle with the same things?

[Renton]

Phew, you aren't completely crazy then

What do you think about live poker so far? I think I can struggle to pay attention at the table to the small things - I know the ideas of what to look for, tracking pot sizes when I'm not in the pot, etc- but I'm so used to playing online I think I expect stuff like that to be handed to me on a plate. Do you struggle with the same things?

I've never played live poker for more than a few days at a time so this is all going to be new to me. I am filled with excitement and dread at the thought of it. We'll see how it goes.

I think the best chance to hold concentration is to try enjoy yourself, talk to people, don't be a douchebag with earbuds and an iPod. Try to make a game out of paying attention to hands you aren't involved in. Eventually I expect it will come second nature.

[ilikeaces86]

What are your full ring mid stakes preflop stats?

If you could go back in time to 2004 with your current skill level, how much money do you think you could have made in the 5/10 and 10/20 games at the time considering terrible abc nits like empiremaker2 playing 17/12/4 made a million bucks a year.

[Renton]

What are your full ring mid stakes preflop stats?

If you could go back in time to 2004 with your current skill level, how much money do you think you could have made in the 5/10 and 10/20 games at the time considering terrible abc nits like empiremaker2 playing 17/12/4 made a million bucks a year.

1) Probably about 19/16 but it varies widely depending how good the game is. In tough games I probably play closer to 17/14.

2) I think anyone who's been breaking even lately would have been making millions of dollars a year in those days. It's just pointless to consider because being able to think abstractly and think ahead, effectively being ahead of one's time, is the basic prerequisite for being a highly successful player.

Empiremaker2 and bldswttrs, and to a lesser extent you and Gabe, and to an even lesser extent, myself, we had capital that most didn't have in those days, even if it was as simple as using a hud when most people were not, or knowing about reraise fold equity. As this capital spreads to others and becomes commonplace, it's no longer an advantage to be held so you have to find new tools. This explains how once-great players get passed over and begin to break even or lose. They become complacent and stop innovating.

[MikeMcFlack]

What poker books would you recommend for a beginner? So far I have read Sklansky's theory of poker and NL hold em theory and practice.

[boost]

How was voter turn out this cycle?

[Renton]

How was voter turn out this cycle?

57.5%, down from 63% in '08. I attribute this to the rather stale sentiment in watermelon futures.

[DoubleJ]

...we had capital that most didn't have in those days, even if it was as simple as using a hud when most people were not...

so what software tools were available way back in 2004? were they any good?

Also just wanted to add that your ABCD Theorem piece was on of the first things i read here on FTR, and pretty much got me hooked on this game.

So thank you.

[Or possibly "demn you, Sah!" depending on how i'm running...]

[spoonitnow]

How big of a whore is Kristen Stewart? Would you bang her?

[bikes]

How big of a whore is Kristen Stewart? Would you pee in her butt?

FTFY

[Deanglow]

What was the transition like going from an innocent good ol boy from Tennessee to living in Thailand with 3 gangbanging poker players from the streets?

[!Luck]

Assume everyone plays perfectly, though they tilt a certain % of time. At what % of average tilt per player could you still make a profit (assuming you are playing perfectly, with zero tilt) by beating the rake, let's say at 1/2.

[Luco]

What's with Rick James?

[Renton]

so what software tools were available way back in 2004? were they any good?

Also just wanted to add that your ABCD Theorem piece was on of the first things i read here on FTR, and pretty much got me hooked on this game.

So thank you.

[Or possibly "demn you, Sah!" depending on how i'm running...]

By capital I was mostly referring to exploitative strategies. Back then all I used was a hud, but many successful players didn't even use a hud.

Cool, glad to have helped you.

[Renton]

What poker books would you recommend for a beginner? So far I have read Sklansky's theory of poker and NL hold em theory and practice.

Those are probably the only two books I'd recommend reading.

[Renton]

How big of a whore is Kristen Stewart? Would you bang her?

I had to google her, I've never seen twilight or heard of her until now. And yes of course I'd have sex with her. She fits in my broad parameters of female, age 18-48, weight <160#. Dunno what else to say.

[Renton]

What was the transition like going from an innocent good ol boy from Tennessee to living in Thailand with 3 gangbanging poker players from the streets?

Well I began not to relate to Tennessee society at a fairly early age, around age 12 or 13, about the same time that I stopped liking country music. So I gradually transitioned in to a more urban person from that point and the only real reason I never traveled far a way was due to complacency in my life. I had always, in the back of my mind, wanted to travel and play poker but it just never happened until I was forced to do so in 2011. I'm super happy, despite it all, that fate brought me to this place.

[Renton]

Assume everyone plays perfectly, though they tilt a certain % of time. At what % of average tilt per player could you still make a profit (assuming you are playing perfectly, with zero tilt) by beating the rake, let's say at 1/2.

Not sure how to answer this other than to say that tilt isn't an on / off switch. To make a scientific analogy, tilt is more like temperature than a change of state from solid to liquid. Subtle tilt can slightly skew your decision-making ability, and you can be subtly tilted 100% of the time and still be a winning player.

Or you can be like the infamous BBuddy (high stakes player from a few years ago) and play awesome 99% of the time and the other 1% just open raise 100 big blinds with any two because you are a fucking psycho. I don't think tilting that hard 1% of the time would be a winning game plan.

[Renton]

What's with Rick James?

Just was an avatar that I haven't changed. It's noteworthy though that I actually like Rick Jame's music, its not just making fun of him (although it partly is).

[lolzzz_321]

how many thai hookers have u banged?

[Renton]

how many thai hookers have u banged?

Gonna plea the fif on this one, I may want to run for office some day.

That said, I don't enjoy having sex with someone unless she's enjoying it too, so, in theory, I don't find banging hookers to be appealing. Don't really have anything morally against it though.

[spoonitnow]

lol in theory

[Deanglow]

Pastrami or corned beef?

[seven-deuce]

I'd like to say thanks for your ABCD theorem just read it today very informative stuff. My question is regarding your theorem when you say that;

"We can play ranges A, B, and C profitably. So our duty, in order to maximize the amount we exploit our opponent, is to make A + B + C add up to the highest possible percentage."

What do you mean by this highest possible % bit? I understand the rest of the post and that ranges are subdivided and so on.

My interpretation of this is that we want ranges A + B + C to be as wide as possible i.e the highest % of starting hands we can get away with. So we 3bet QQ+ AK for range A, for range B we want to call as wide as we can making B a higher % of hands, and then range C we 3bet as wide as possible with hands just below B strength that arent profitable calling hands, so our C range is the highest % of hands we can get away with therefore maximising the total % of A+B+C.

Am i interpreting this theorem correctly?

[Renton]

Pastrami or corned beef?

cb probably

[Renton]

I'd like to say thanks for your ABCD theorem just read it today very informative stuff. My question is regarding your theorem when you say that;

"We can play ranges A, B, and C profitably. So our duty, in order to maximize the amount we exploit our opponent, is to make A + B + C add up to the highest possible percentage."

What do you mean by this highest possible % bit? I understand the rest of the post and that ranges are subdivided and so on.

My interpretation of this is that we want ranges A + B + C to be as wide as possible i.e the highest % of starting hands we can get away with. So we 3bet QQ+ AK for range A, for range B we want to call as wide as we can making B a higher % of hands, and then range C we 3bet as wide as possible with hands just below B strength that arent profitable calling hands, so our C range is the highest % of hands we can get away with therefore maximising the total % of A+B+C.

Am i interpreting this theorem correctly?

Yeah you've pretty much got it. It's basically about not wasting any hands in your range that have a modicum of potential by choosing inferior bluffing hands instead.

[eberetta1]

1. Suppose you find out live poker is not for you and return to playing online poker. Do you know which online site(s) you would like to try?

2. How much time does it take you to make $2000 at the live tables? That would be a nice amount to make in a month.

[givememyleg]

This AMA has been up for a week now so I'm going to mark it closed. Renton can of course still answer anything if he wants or if he has the time, but don't expect anything.

Thanks to Renton for doing this!

[andy-akb]

Sorry if I missed this, but you said you are going to transition to more live play now? Where are you going to do that? I saw somebody mention Cambodia, are you going to move to Cambodia to grind live? This all could be way off, haha, I just want to understand what your plan is, because I am hoping you arent planning on becoming a live pro in Cambodia, because that would be the worst thing ever IMO

[Renton]

1. Suppose you find out live poker is not for you and return to playing online poker. Do you know which online site(s) you would like to try?

2. How much time does it take you to make $2000 at the live tables? That would be a nice amount to make in a month.

1) Probably just play on pokerstars.

2) I've never played live for a steady length of time.

[Renton]

Sorry if I missed this, but you said you are going to transition to more live play now? Where are you going to do that? I saw somebody mention Cambodia, are you going to move to Cambodia to grind live? This all could be way off, haha, I just want to understand what your plan is, because I am hoping you arent planning on becoming a live pro in Cambodia, because that would be the worst thing ever IMO

I'm going to hang out in cambodia for a couple of months during which I will attempt live play. It's not ideal, but it's nearby and a cheap way for me to see how I like grinding live.

[andy-akb]

I'm going to hang out in cambodia for a couple of months during which I will attempt live play. It's not ideal, but it's nearby and a cheap way for me to see how I like grinding live.

how have you found it? i mean, i didnt spend a ton of time there or explore much, but what I saw of phnom penh just really turned me off. ive heard there are nicer parts of the country and city, i just honestly never saw them. can you give a bit more info about your current living situation and what you think of the area? im genuinely curious, as i have always wondered how accurate my perception of the city was

[Renton]

Well I've visited there a few times. I know some locals. I think the food scene is quite good there. I'm not sure about the living situation yet, but it is a typical third world country city that has super nice neighborhoods adjacent to the most depressingly poor of slums. It's definitely a notch or two down the ladder from Thailand, but the people are just as friendly. My biggest pet peeve about Phnom Penh is the dirtiness. Giant piles of trash on street corners, etc.