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FTP just went down... Hard.

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  1. #1
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Right, but how many were still playing because they couldn't get their money out?

    Say this all gets sorted out and everyone gets their money off of FT in a few months time. There are so many alternative rooms and so few restrictions for the remaining players to move money between them, what is a room's player base but a reflection of the loyalty of the customers? Do they still have that? Will they still have that after this?

    You're American. I get that you are seeing it from the perspective of what's best for the players and the best hope for getting your money back. But look at this from an investor's perspective and you'll find the upside hard to come by.
    Partypoker had $170mm in revenue from poker in 2010 and they are a third of the size of fulltilt poker post-black friday. FT could lose 2/3 of their customers and be about the size of party. Using a conservative multiplier, this would still be a billion dollar company even when figuring in $150mm in debts. When the vast majority of full tilt users have no idea about the issues, I dont know how anybody can say that having an investor swoop in and SAVE the company would cause them to lose more than 2/3 of their users. I can understand people leaving because FT left a bad taste in their mouths, but it would simply not be rational to leave a company once it got new management and became solvent.

    A lot of investors stay away from distressed companies, but many others deal specifically with them and FT is no different than many other companies. This is one that has huge revenues and even if they lose the majority will continue to have huge revenues, and regardless of what you may think, they have a strong brand. FT will not get anywhere near their "true" valuation, but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be a significant amount of money and enough for Bitar to leave the company, especially with all the pressure he is surely feeling now.

    Yes, I am an American who has a vested interest in getting paid back, and I have many friends with significantly more money than me on there and dont want to see them lose that either. However, I am also reasonably unbiased when it comes to business and others with the same objective understanding of business should realize that FT could stand to lose a huge amount of their player base and still be worth a significant amount of money. They are in a shitty position, thats clear, but things could get worse and they would still be a desirable investment under the right terms.
  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by andy-akb View Post
    A lot of investors stay away from distressed companies, but many others deal specifically with them
    Yes, but how many deal in saving internet-based businesses with few tangible assets in an oddly regulated and somewhat shady environment, no liquid cash to pay debts, a current inability to operate and earn revenue and pending legal bills out the wazoo? It's a unique situation.

    It's a tough looking environment just given what we know and there's so much that we don't know. How many other creditors are out there, aside from having to pay back player balances? This is particularly concerning, imo. Will well-known pros continue to associate with FTP? This had much to do with the brand for the casual player. We know Ivey won't. Stars would be smart to snatch these guys up asap.

    As for the quick $1M/day math guy, if it were that simple, it would have been purchased by now. GM made $400M a day in 2008. Did that make them a 400x no-doubt good buy?
  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Yes, but how many deal in saving internet-based businesses with few tangible assets in an oddly regulated and somewhat shady environment, no liquid cash to pay debts, a current inability to operate and earn revenue and pending legal bills out the wazoo? It's a unique situation.

    It's a tough looking environment just given what we know and there's so much that we don't know. How many other creditors are out there, aside from having to pay back player balances? This is particularly concerning, imo. Will well-known pros continue to associate with FTP? This had much to do with the brand for the casual player. We know Ivey won't. Stars would be smart to snatch these guys up asap.

    As for the quick $1M/day math guy, if it were that simple, it would have been purchased by now. GM made $400M a day in 2008. Did that make them a 400x no-doubt good buy?
    meh its a big, multi-billion dollar industry, and FTP is still a good brand with decent value. If a reputable company buys it and we get rid of current upper management, ppl will come back to it for sure.

    id say there is lots of interest if it goes on sale
    Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

    Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexos View Post
    id say there is lots of interest if it goes on sale
    Supposedly, they've been trying to raise capital for months with no success.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by andy-akb View Post
    Partypoker had $170mm in revenue from poker in 2010 and they are a third of the size of fulltilt poker post-black friday. FT could lose 2/3 of their customers and be about the size of party. Using a conservative multiplier, this would still be a billion dollar company even when figuring in $150mm in debts. When the vast majority of full tilt users have no idea about the issues, I dont know how anybody can say that having an investor swoop in and SAVE the company would cause them to lose more than 2/3 of their users. I can understand people leaving because FT left a bad taste in their mouths, but it would simply not be rational to leave a company once it got new management and became solvent.

    A lot of investors stay away from distressed companies, but many others deal specifically with them and FT is no different than many other companies. This is one that has huge revenues and even if they lose the majority will continue to have huge revenues, and regardless of what you may think, they have a strong brand. FT will not get anywhere near their "true" valuation, but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be a significant amount of money and enough for Bitar to leave the company, especially with all the pressure he is surely feeling now.

    Yes, I am an American who has a vested interest in getting paid back, and I have many friends with significantly more money than me on there and dont want to see them lose that either. However, I am also reasonably unbiased when it comes to business and others with the same objective understanding of business should realize that FT could stand to lose a huge amount of their player base and still be worth a significant amount of money. They are in a shitty position, thats clear, but things could get worse and they would still be a desirable investment under the right terms.
    UB and Absolute had new management after the super user scandals. Look at them now. Whose to say FTP would be any different?
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by reDZill4 View Post
    UB and Absolute had new management after the super user scandals. Look at them now. Whose to say FTP would be any different?
    I remember Negreanu saying it's the same ppl
    Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

    Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
  7. #7
    BankItDrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexos View Post
    I remember Negreanu saying it's the same ppl
    Phil Tom and Scott Tom are the founders of UB/Absolute.

    Scott is one of Full Tilts managers and Phil is one of the majority owners of Full Tilt.
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by BankItDrew View Post
    Phil Tom and Scott Tom are the founders of UB/Absolute.

    Scott is one of Full Tilts managers and Phil is one of the majority owners of Full Tilt.


    that is not very promising news...
  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by reDZill4 View Post
    UB and Absolute had new management after the super user scandals. Look at them now. Whose to say FTP would be any different?
    from all the stuff that came out around BF, it seems like that is not the case

    Quote Originally Posted by BankItDrew View Post
    Phil Tom and Scott Tom are the founders of UB/Absolute.

    Scott is one of Full Tilts managers and Phil is one of the majority owners of Full Tilt.
    Quote Originally Posted by reDZill4 View Post


    that is not very promising news...
    lol what? maybe i got leveled, but thats definitely not true

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