Format you guys are playing

[Vinland]

I’m curious Not asking where you play but,

1) does everyone here:
play online
play live
both
I’m just here for the debates

2) game type
cash mostly
sng mostly
mtt mostly
miscellaneous
all of the above

3) stakes

[Vinland]

I’ll start
online
cash
.02/.5 nl

[oskar]

I haven't opened a poker client in almost a decade. But back when I played, I only played cash and most of it at 100NL. Opening FR tables and playing HU/short handed against FR feesh was my highest earning move.

[OngBonga]

I'm playing poker for crypto (Bitcoin Cash) at Blockchain Poker - https://blockchain.poker/#/?a=591b24cb#cash - that's an affiliate link, if you don't want to take it google "Blockchain poker".

Generally cash games, 10k/20k blinds, that's $BCH satoshis and is basically $0.05 bb at current $BCH price. Huge fish, high variance, very small player pool. Not always games available at my preferred stakes.

If I want to play a tournament then I'll just go find a biggie in Pokerstars.

I don't play that often these days though. I have an actual job now.

[The Bean Counter]

Online only and with 90% of my volume on UK-only site Sky Poker.

10nl-50nl cash and £3.30-£11 mtts. Only play peak times, average 7-10 hours per week and £12-£15 per hour profit.

[Vinland]

Don’t you miss playing Oscar?

what are you doing for a job Ong?

[OngBonga]

I literally clean toilets and make beds. I'm a housekeeper for a hotel.

[Poopadoop]

Play at Stars about an hour a day most days. 10-25 bb PLO. Occasionally play 8-game and donk around some micro HU tourneys, LHE, 8game, badugi, 2-7. Occasionally play various micro tourneys of all games, mostly NLHE because that's mostly what is offered.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Haven't played seriously (if at all) in over 7 years-ish.

Back then it was 5NL FR 9-max and I was stepping up to 10NL when I quit.
I played poker full time for a little over a year and I earned about $550 that year. I was living off my dad post-college graduation. It was sad AF. I put that poor guy through the ringer. Love him so much.

Anyway.

That was $550 profit playing for nickles. I could have pushed that into a living wage if playing 25/50, but the time to get there was overwhelming. And I had a mental breakdown being in my 30's and living off my dad, and telling myself to use a physics degree as a stepping stone to spend another many years training myself in a totally different field.

I had anxiety attacks every time I opened poker tables for about a month, and eventually just had to admit I couldn't talk myself out of them. I was making a bad life decision and I didn't fully and deeply believe in myself to do it. There was another path that I needed to take and I spent years preparing for it. I needed to stop the poker thing and do physics.

And I did.

And I'm so happy for the decision. I love my job. I love the people I work with. It pays well enough to take vacations all over the world.

Sometimes I miss poker. I loved it for a long time. But the sting of how my relationship with poker ended is hard to get over.

[OngBonga]

Over the last ten years I've had issues with depression and poker is the worst thing you can play when you're struggling with mental health. Every time I got a bad beat, it would upset me, I would feel like God hates me and wants me to suffer. I don't even believe in God but this is what I would think. I was nowhere near my A-game and very prone to tilt. So I had to stop playing for a long time.

I don't play as often as I used to for another reason - I'm not as good as I used to be. Maybe it's because I'm largely playing for entertainment these days instead of trying to grind a bankroll, I'm less inclined to make hero folds. But I enjoy poker more when I'm not bothered about losing. I'm better mentally now so I no longer feel downtrodden, and I'm working now so am more financially secure.

Also, playing fro crypto kind of makes it feel less real. Not sure why.

[oskar]

Don’t you miss playing Oscar?

what are you doing for a job Ong?

I didn't enjoy playing for quite a while before I quit. I mostly don't like the volume you have to put in to beat variance, which is why I don't come back to play here and there. If for some reason games become 2010-level soft again, I might consider it. I don't hate money.

[Vinland]

When I first joined I was playing 2nl and was hella bad. Pretty sure one of my first posts was getting a royal flush and basically checking it down just so I could show villains I got a royal flush. I got raked over hot coals for posting that hand lol
i already had a kid when I joined the forum so it feels like I was playing a lot of poker back then, but nowhere near what some of the college kids were putting in for hours.

i grinded to 25nl but moved back down pretty quickly. Lost 4 BIs on a swing and was terrified of the stakes so I moved to 10nl, and the games got nittier after that as the US players had been given the boot. I had two kids by then and just lost interest in playing.

I never stopped thinking about it. I love playing, I wish i could have been good enough to play 100nl or even 50nl. I put a lot of time into it (as much as I could spare) and couldn’t stay at 25nl long term.

I just started playing again a month ago after probably 8 year hiatus on line and it’s not like it used to be but I still enjoy it. I like the competition and having to work my brain. But the game is terrible for mood. I lost at the home game two nights ago and I was off for over 24hours. Grouchy. The players were terrible and I just couldn’t figure out how to beat them and that’s what pisses me off. I should have walked out a winner but didn’t. That’s my struggle with tilt/doubt.

I think I can understand the issues with depression and playing poker. Playing Lots of poker essentially turns you into a hermit which is tough on depression. And running bad/tilt would make it worse.

[Vinland]

I mostly don't like the volume you have to put in to beat variance, which is why I don't come back to play here and there.

The variance aspect is very de-motivational to putting in high volume. I remember being upset about the variance i had at times at 10nl. Then I looked at posts of results from 100nl+ players. These were guys posting hand analysis in the forums and I could see the way they thought about poker was many levels higher than me, and they were often just eeking out a winrate and they were putting in huge volumes of hands.

I think I liked the idea of being able to say that I played 100nl or even 50nl because it sounded impressive and sexy, but I always knew I would have insane trouble putting in the hours required to beat it.

[Poopadoop]

In the glory days when there were giant schools of fish around 2005-2008 I played LHE (because I was scared of the variance at NL lol). I maxed out at $3/6 and made about $40k over those three or so years before Black Friday. I also binked one $22NL tourney for $4.5k in one of the rare tourneys I actually sat through several hours of without being drunk.

Since then I've barely made any money really. PLO is full of fish but the variance is even worse than NL. Still, it's a fun game and I'm never risking much at the limits I play so I do it mostly for entertainment.

[Vinland]

I’ve never understood limit Holdem (haven’t tried)
since the bets are capped at a bb, aren’t you almost always priced in for a call?
does that mean you need to open really tight but can call IP with spec type hands for draws?

[Poopadoop]

I’ve never understood limit Holdem (haven’t tried)
since the bets are capped at a bb, aren’t you almost always priced in for a call?
does that mean you need to open really tight but can call IP with spec type hands for draws?

You open looser than in NL because no-one can force you to fold for a 3bet, but you still get to be IP if the blinds call.

Basically, there's a lot more showdowns because it's very hard to give someone bad odds to call.

fun fact: LHE was the first poker game to be solved by a GTO bot. It was built where I did my postgrad degree (but I wasn't involved in it obv.).

[Poopadoop]

When I played from 2005-8 there were basically two kinds of LHE players at low stakes. "Good" players who only raised with TPTK or better, and fish who called to the river to try to hit a pair. Also, no-one folded a decent but not great hand to a raise on the river, ever.

[The Bean Counter]

I had anxiety attacks every time I opened poker tables for about a month, and eventually just had to admit I couldn't talk myself out of them.

Over the last ten years I've had issues with depression and poker is the worst thing you can play when you're struggling with mental health.

Thanks very much for for sharing. After a bad period Sept21-May22, I've thought a lot about the impact of poker on my mental health in the past 14 months. I took some time away from poker, then restarted during a bout of COVID in Mar22. I came to the conclusion that poker wasn't a bad thing for my anxiety problem: it kept my mind busy, particularly late at night when I was really struggling, and gave me something to aim for in terms of trying to get better. Alcohol was the worst trigger.

[Poopadoop]

Thanks very much for for sharing. After a bad period Sept21-May22, I've thought a lot about the impact of poker on my mental health in the past 14 months. I took some time away from poker, then restarted during a bout of COVID in Mar22. I came to the conclusion that poker wasn't a bad thing for my anxiety problem: it kept my mind busy, particularly late at night when I was really struggling, and gave me something to aim for in terms of trying to get better. Alcohol was the worst trigger.

I haven't had any mental health issues since I was maybe 25 but if anything can unbalance me it's losing 170 hands in a row.

[CoccoBill]

Haven't played seriously in 10+ years, don't even remember what those hud and hand analyzer apps were called. Donked around a bit until finding ftr, sklanskys, harringtons & co. After sucking a bit less I played mainly sngs for a couple years from $50 to ~$2000 I think, then felt invincible and got my ass handed to me. Other than sngs I used to play some NL, small tourneys, with friends or private live games, mostly just for fun. Nowadays strictly for fun with friends once or twice a year.

[Vinland]

Poker tracker
holdem manager

i think I remember you coco. Mostly your avatar. I remember a lot of you based on the avatar

[Poopadoop]

Speaking of online poker, did anyone else hear about Gus Hansen losing all his money, giving up on poker and becoming an accountant?

I was wondering why you never see him any more.

[Vinland]

Hadn’t heard that but I didn’t and still don’t really follow any of the poker celebrities.
I quickly looked it up and it appears that he left for about 3 years, but came back after for live tournaments.
seems the online cash games at the nosebleeds got expensive for him to the tune of approx $20 mil

one name I did look up was Annette Obrestad. I remember she won a bunch of shit at age 17-19 and then apparently lost all desire to play and fucked off to do something else

[OngBonga]

one name I did look up was Annette Obrestad. I remember she won a bunch of shit at age 17-19 and then apparently lost all desire to play and fucked off to do something else

Tell me she opened an OnlyFans account.

She would make an absolute fortune if she did.

[Poopadoop]

Tell me she opened an OnlyFans account.

She would make an absolute fortune if she did.

Why? She's not exactly charismatic.

I do often wonder what happened to some of the famous poker players of yore. It does seem like a fair number of them have gambling problem - famously Ivey is a degen at gambling but makes enough from poker to fund it. But that Eric whatshisname guy went down pretty hard iirc, and Gus really should have had a stop loss at some point short of 20m, if he had any sense.

Others who have gone missing: Scotty Nguyen, Vanessa Rousso (mostly interesting b/c she was smoking hot), Jennifer Harman, Vanessa Selbst, and I'm sure there's a lot more.

Obviously Efsandiari (sp?) and Negreanu are still playing at a high level, but I also remember hearing a few years ago that they had joined a cult. I guess they managed to get deprogrammed.

lol, high stakes poker is full of nutters.

[Vinland]

Eric Lindgren - god I still remember the names - yeah I think he gambled his money away.

I always assumed most of the poker celebrities were either half crazy, assholes, or dry as toast, nothing in between.

After being away for so long I did look up some records for WSOP and saw that Phil Helmuth won another 4 or so bracelets while I was away so I watched a long interview with him where he was candid and he seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders. He knows he's full of himself and has to monitor his ego (and he never stops promoting himself) but to hear him talk about bankroll management was pretty impressive.

He recounted a story where he walked into a poker room around 2005 during the boom to play cash games and sat down on tables that weren't really close to the limit of the casino because thats what his BR allowed and he didnt play staked with other peoples money. He said it was tough on his pride but he sticks to his BR principles and sounds like he's pretty loaded for following it.

[MadMojoMonkey]

That reminds me. Liv Boeree has a sciencey YouTube channel, but the content only comes out at a snail's pace for the past couple years.

Turns out she has a 1 hour video about the universe that I haven't seen, so that gives me something to put on in the background at work today. Nice.


Victoria Cohen is still in the poker scene, as well, I think. I see more of her on British comedy panel shows than I watch poker, though.


Tom Dwaan is still in the nosebleeds, and playing well, as I understand it. I haven't looked into it in a long time, though.

[OngBonga]

Why? She's not exactly charismatic.

Her boobs are charismatic.

[OngBonga]

Apparently Liv Boree was at one of my old friend's weddings. I'd lost touch with the guy by then so I didn't go, but I was told she was dating one of my buddy's new friends.

Lucky bastard.

[Poopadoop]

I'm not normally one of those guys who shoots down a woman for having pointy elbows or whatever, and I accept that she's objectively attractive, but a gummy smile has always been a no for me.

[Vinland]

So just be a shithead to her and she will never smile, problem solved

[oskar]

I think a lot of those long term professional players do have gambling addictions, but as Norm Macdonald says: it's not an attiction when you're winning!
Gus Hansen surprises me. I know a lot of those tournament players are pretty weak in deep cash games and tend to play stakes above their level, but losing $20M... you'd think after $15M a smart guy like Gus would go: maybe I should put some of this money into an index fund or whatever.

[oskar]

He recounted a story where he walked into a poker room around 2005 during the boom to play cash games and sat down on tables that weren't really close to the limit of the casino because thats what his BR allowed and he didnt play staked with other peoples money. He said it was tough on his pride but he sticks to his BR principles and sounds like he's pretty loaded for following it.

It has always struck me as very odd that someone with that bad of a temprament can not only be a winning player but be this damn solid. Huge respect for the player, and he says what we're all thinking!

[Poopadoop]

It has always struck me as very odd that someone with that bad of a temprament can not only be a winning player but be this damn solid. Huge respect for the player, and he says what we're all thinking!

Yup, Hellmuth seems like an outlier in the sense that he doesn't have an addiction to gambling. He not only does BR management well, he doesn't seem to place all kinds of goofy side bets on golf or whatever that people like Negreanu and Ivey do.

Also, I sometimes wonder how much of his tilting persona is just done to mess with people's heads. If you were clever, you might think well, if they think I'm pissed off all the time they're going to expect me to do X, then I'll do Y instead. But it does seem like whatever he's doing is always calculated, not just tilting, even though he looks like he's tilting 90% of the time. I wonder.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Letting off emotional steam periodically seems like a decent way to keep yourself more sane when you sit at a poker table for hours on end in a long-form tournament, IMO.

He's often like a parody of himself in ways, and that seems like a self-awareness and sense of showmanship slipping into practical emotional management sometimes.

His record in poker truly should speak for itself... but he keeps opening his mouth and speaking for it, instead
which is absent of any class and comes across as douchebaggy.

Helmuth sometimes gets carried away when he's self-promoting, and it rubs people the wrong way.
Understandably so.


But I've never heard anyone who knows him personally, away from the tables, say an unkind word about him. Quite the opposite, actually. So I have to assume there's a lot of him playing up to the cameras or whatever attention delivering media that just doesn't reflect his actual personality.

[boost]

Weird, it seems with plenty of hands at .25/.5 to 1/2 and some stints at 2/4 and 3/6 I played the highest stakes cash itt. I was not good, but the games were very soft. I haven't played online since 2011, and only some home games and a bit of live since. A year or so ago, I was going to a regular illegal live game that ran 2-3 tables, 1/3, 2/5, and occasionally 5/10, no buy in cap that tended to play deep and was v soft as compared to what online was when I left. It was fun and I made some money, but the games started late and ran overnight, and I didn't like worrying about getting robbed every time I left and a couple dozen scumbags knew I had a big chunk of cash in my pocket.

[Vinland]

It was fun and I made some money, but the games started late and ran overnight, and I didn't like worrying about getting robbed every time I left and a couple dozen scumbags knew I had a big chunk of cash in my pocket.

Sounds like the dream of every poker degen
what made them illegal? Was the house taking rake?

[MadMojoMonkey]

Sounds like the dream of every poker degen
what made them illegal? Was the house taking rake?

Gambling is illegal in many US states, except in specific locations, licensed by the state (casinos).

Like in Missouri, if I have a party and a bunch of friends come over and we play any games which are considered gambling games, then I have technically created an illegal, unlicensed casino for the party.

[OngBonga]

Highest stakes I've ever played regularly is $0.12/$0.25. I took the occasional punt at $0.50 and did ok, even doubling up a full buy in vs a pokerstars pro in a PLO game, nuts vs 2nd nuts obviously. But I never felt comfortable at those stakes, and certainly not PLO. I was profitable at $0.25 though. I doubt very much I would be today.

[boost]

Gambling is illegal in many US states, except in specific locations, licensed by the state (casinos).

Like in Missouri, if I have a party and a bunch of friends come over and we play any games which are considered gambling games, then I have technically created an illegal, unlicensed casino for the party.

Yeah, kinda crazy, right? But if you think about any robust legal code, it necessarily makes scofflaws of everyone in one way or another.

These games were organized-- actual illegal casinos. The guys running them were doing it to make a buck, and they were doing pretty damn good. Rake was kinda high, but the games were so much softer than the casino poker rooms and play was just as quick. Most of the dealers were moonlighting casino dealers.

They were a lot of fun, tbh, lots of colorful characters. I just couldn't justify fucking over my sleep schedule and risk getting robbed. It was good money, but a lot to invest in something with no long term outlook.

[boost]

Highest stakes I've ever played regularly is $0.12/$0.25. I took the occasional punt at $0.50 and did ok, even doubling up a full buy in vs a pokerstars pro in a PLO game, nuts vs 2nd nuts obviously. But I never felt comfortable at those stakes, and certainly not PLO. I was profitable at $0.25 though. I doubt very much I would be today.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy to think about poker money as real money. I always had a pretty strong detachment, but after losing a big pot I'd sometimes snap realize that I just lost what would be a week or two worth of pay at any job I could reasonably expect to go out and get lol :'(

[OngBonga]

I played a very brief £0.50/£1 session 100bb deep at a casino once. I got it in three way pre flop with AA vs TT and KQo for 80bb, and KQ made a boat. I abruptly left. I wanted to insult the guy who had KQ but I had to remind myself we're face to face and not online. I gave him a ridiculously easy fold as I tried to isolate the shove from TT, but he was terrible and made the call. It was too much for me to reload and target the guy. I did have another buy in in my budget but I knew I was tilted. Figured a spliff on the beach was a better idea.

[Poopadoop]

I played a couple of hours at a casino in London once at £5/10 NL. I ended up winning a couple hundred thanks to fishy opponents. My gf at the time told me I should go pro lol.

[boost]

I played a very brief £0.50/£1 session 100bb deep at a casino once. I got it in three way pre flop with AA vs TT and KQo for 80bb, and KQ made a boat. I abruptly left. I wanted to insult the guy who had KQ but I had to remind myself we're face to face and not online. I gave him a ridiculously easy fold as I tried to isolate the shove from TT, but he was terrible and made the call. It was too much for me to reload and target the guy. I did have another buy in in my budget but I knew I was tilted. Figured a spliff on the beach was a better idea.

Yeah, it's funny how money printer+variance = AAAAAGGGGHHGHHGHHHGHGH!!!?!?!??!

I played a couple of hours at a casino in London once at £5/10 NL. I ended up winning a couple hundred thanks to fishy opponents. My gf at the time told me I should go pro lol.

lol

I had an early upswing when I switched from sngs to cash, moving up from .10/.25 to 1/2 and going from like $500 to $10k, and thought I was set for life-- just need to log in a few times a week and live life on easy street lol

[OngBonga]

My BR peaked at $4k after a huge MTT win, I can remember thinking "one of those a month will do nicely" as though it was that simple.

[Vinland]

I have a goal to play a live cash game
tjere is a casino in my city but it’s not a very touristy city so I’m afraid it will be mostly regs
mid rather go out of town where I expect it to be full of half drunk regs

[Vinland]

My BR peaked at $800 at 25nl. I wasn’t there too long.
I spent the most time at 10nl.
I never got that good to try higher stakes and never played a mtt bc I had kids and finding time was impossible

[boost]

To be fair, I think the bulk of my hands were way earlier than most of you, when 2/4 played like .5/.10 play now

You could nit it up, set mine and make money hand over fist at any stake so long as your bankroll could absorb the swings.