FBI seizes domains of pokerstars, full tilt, ub.. (UPDATE: FTP MONIES!!!!!11)

[wufwugy]

I'm not in as much shock since I already dealt with the panic attacks when PS and FTP left WA

This is ALL about bank fraud. Without that, nothing else sticks. I told those stupid fuckers when they left WA how to run their goddamn business in a way that they would never get hassled, but stupid fuckers will be stupid fuckers. This isn't rocket science. International wires, international debit cards, international checks = no can defend. But these stupid fuckers go to fucking Utah and give the FBI the finger

This is not the end of online poker. We actually want these fucking morons out of the business. The landscape needs to operate like sportsbetting i.e. small, smart, and the FBI don't fuck with them because it's too much of a hassle

Notice that it's PS/FTP/AP, not UB, not Cereus. I don't know who owns Cereus, but the two guys indicted from AP are AP's founder and a processor guy

[LawDude]

I'm not in as much shock since I already dealt with the panic attacks when PS and FTP left WA

This is ALL about bank fraud. Without that, nothing else sticks. I told those stupid fuckers when they left WA how to run their goddamn business in a way that they would never get hassled, but stupid fuckers will be stupid fuckers. This isn't rocket science. International wires, international debit cards, international checks = no can defend. But these stupid fuckers go to fucking Utah and give the FBI the finger

This is not the end of online poker. We actually want these fucking morons out of the business. The landscape needs to operate like sportsbetting i.e. small, smart, and the FBI don't fuck with them because it's too much of a hassle

Notice that it's PS/FTP/AP, not UB, not Cereus. I don't know who owns Cereus, but the two guys indicted from AP are AP's founder and a processor guy

Not nearly this simple.

FTP and Stars had a decent, though not iron clad, case that online poker was legal. They could have brought a court case challenging the DOJ's interpretation, which, if successful, would have stopped the actions against payment processors. For various reasons, they decided not to take the chance.

Once they did that, this sort of bank fraud was inevitable because their customers wanted to deposit and withdraw money and the DOJ wasn't allowing them direct access to the banking system.

[LuckySlevin]

Not nearly this simple.

FTP and Stars had a decent, though not iron clad, case that online poker was legal. They could have brought a court case challenging the DOJ's interpretation, which, if successful, would have stopped the actions against payment processors. For various reasons, they decided not to take the chance.

Once they did that, this sort of bank fraud was inevitable because their customers wanted to deposit and withdraw money and the DOJ wasn't allowing them direct access to the banking system.

Seems simple enough to me. They circumvented the blocks in place to fraudulently get money into and out of their sites... I mean I respected Pokerstars as a class outfit until this happened. If the reports are true they were plainly engaged in fraud.

[Fnord]

Not nearly this simple.

Hey, you're a lawyer, right?

Totally off the record, what do you think the chances are the players ever see a check? If the sites get a stupid-billion dollar judgment against them are player funds on the table (*IF* they're still in a separate account.) Are player funds on the table for paying off the lawyers to fight said judgment? Am I totally off thinking that best case, once all the accounts are frozen they maybe, might see a check for some X% after Y years?

[vaks]

Hey, you're a lawyer, right?

Totally off the record, what do you think the chances are the players ever see a check? If the sites get a stupid-billion dollar judgment against them are player funds on the table (*IF* they're still in a separate account.) Are player funds on the table for paying off the lawyers to fight said judgment? Am I totally off thinking that best case, once all the accounts are frozen they maybe, might see a check for some X% after Y years?

I'm curious as this as well...

I want to think my money is completely safe

but I have a large sum of money on AP right now that is pretty much my livelihood. I was supposed to be receiving a bank transfer in the next few days from them so I can pay bills and eat so I guess we will see if that comes early next week or not. But it seems like there is no way in hell we won't get our money back even if the government thinks that what we are doing is illegal. But, I could be wrong and more and more I'm thinking I'm totally fucked.

Is it worth it to try and withdraw?

[LawDude]

Hey, you're a lawyer, right?

Totally off the record, what do you think the chances are the players ever see a check? If the sites get a stupid-billion dollar judgment against them are player funds on the table (*IF* they're still in a separate account.) Are player funds on the table for paying off the lawyers to fight said judgment? Am I totally off thinking that best case, once all the accounts are frozen they maybe, might see a check for some X% after Y years?

I don't know. To answer that question, we'd need to know more about the DOJ's and Stars' intentions than we do now.