FBI seizes domains of pokerstars, full tilt, ub.. (UPDATE: FTP MONIES!!!!!11)

[EasyPoker]

Karak rants 4-25.mp3

Karak rant from 2p2. It concerns Stars/Tilt and how they lied to us. It's the first proper anti-Stars/Tilt rant I've ever heard, seeing as most of the industry has been like fuck the DoJ.

Kinda tries to expose the naivety of many people who were like "Stars really cared about us man"...Karak is saying, no they didn't...Open your eyes, they're just as bent as any other international corporation.

[rowhousepd]

Karak rants 4-25.mp3

Karak rant from 2p2. It concerns Stars/Tilt and how they lied to us. It's the first proper anti-Stars/Tilt rant I've ever heard, seeing as most of the industry has been like fuck the DoJ.

Yes! Just listened, and I couldn't agree more. Since this whole thing started last week I've noticed how people think there are only to two opposing stances one can take about the shut down, and I I don't think there has to be a strict dichotomy. You can absolutely see the hypocrisy & absurdity of the US's condemnation of online poker while it endorses other forms of gambling, and you can maintain that DoJ's completely overreached their jurisdiction, but you can also still condemn Stars & Tilt for the way they conducted themselves & the impact they have had on the players, many of whom depended on them operating in a legitimate and transparent way.

Yes, of course, like 99% of the other people in this forum I believe playing poker online should be a right of anyone in US, and at the moment the laws do not even make it clear that poker is even gambling anyway, etc., etc.. But this fact did not give Stars & FT the license to lie to the players (which they have repeatedly) about acting legally & doing nothing wrong. IF they were going to service US player then they pretty much had to find other ways to allow payments to be processed ... but they didn't HAVE to -- they could have downsized their operations and exited the market the way Party did years ago. It would have devastated their bottom line and left US players w/ fewer options of course, but they didn't have to collude w/ banks to commit fraud and bribe bank officials to process payments, and jeopardize their bankrolls & livelihoods of the players. In the end they were going exactly what any casino needs to prevent their customers from doing -- cheating.

I just think there's certainly plenty of blame we can place on these sites ... even though we all know the deeper issue is that we should be allowed in the first place.

[PlayToWin]

I wonder what their liability is regarding the DOJ decisions. They are not based in the US. If they decide to cut their losses, can they just say, screw the DOJ, or are they still responsible under some international laws? Or do they have to come to an agreement due to frozen accounts achieved by the DOJ?

[boost]

I wonder what their liability is regarding the DOJ decisions. They are not based in the US. If they decide to cut their losses, can they just say, screw the DOJ, or are they still responsible under some international laws? Or do they have to come to an agreement due to frozen accounts achieved by the DOJ?

It seems like if they say "fuck the DOJ and the horse they rode in on!" then they forfeit the seized accounts and the specific persons named in the indictments give up travel privileges to the US and to any cooperative state with an extradition treaty. Seeing as the DOJ is asking for billions, and we could probably assume that the seized accounts hold < 1 billion, it would seem that they would really only be giving up travel privileges. Not sure how international law plays into this though.

[rowhousepd]

It seems like if they say "fuck the DOJ and the horse they rode in on!" then they forfeit the seized accounts and the specific persons named in the indictments give up travel privileges to the US and to any cooperative state with an extradition treaty. Seeing as the DOJ is asking for billions, and we could probably assume that the seized accounts hold < 1 billion, it would seem that they would really only be giving up travel privileges. Not sure how international law plays into this though.

Except that there a HUUUGE value in NOT doing this because they are presumnably still going keep their companies going and to try to stay competitive in other markets outside of the US. I mean think of what the ramifications would be to other future customers (& current players) who will know that not only were Stars/FT knowingly involved in money laundering, bank fraud, collusion, & bribery in the states, but they refused to give the players (the real victims here) ther funds back. They screwed their customers --- big time.

In the states they were more or less our only options unless we wanted to play at tiny sites w/ no actions. In the UK & abroad, players would have to add that to the reasons NOT to play at FT or Stars and why Party might be the best option. After all, they did the exact opposite years ago & left the US because they knew it would be very very bad business. But if Stars/FT denied funds in the US how could anyone feel safe w/ them? How could they not think it's possible they were violating the financial laws in other countries as well that would make all players just as much as a risk.

The only reason I think I'll get my funds back is because of this. If they were thinking of closing up shop all together, then I'd be worried. But screwing the players like that would I'm sure send everyone running to Party & iPoker in a hurry.

[givememyleg]

Karak rants 4-25.mp3

Karak rant from 2p2. It concerns Stars/Tilt and how they lied to us. It's the first proper anti-Stars/Tilt rant I've ever heard, seeing as most of the industry has been like fuck the DoJ.

Kinda tries to expose the naivety of many people who were like "Stars really cared about us man"...Karak is saying, no they didn't...Open your eyes, they're just as bent as any other international corporation.

Good rant, added to Youtube since dling a file is pretty lame - YouTube - QuadJacks Podcast - Karak Rants About Stars and Tilt (4/25/11)

[rpm]

i don't understand why it being "online" makes it illegal as opposed to it being anywhere else.

also, if it being played "online" makes it somehow more harmful than in a casino (where it's legal) i don't understand why online sports betting is legal.

so why are these people hell-bent on the idea that online poker is so bad? what's the differentiating factor between playing it live/online, assuming it's not on a rigged site like AP. and what's the differentiating factor between betting on a game which is (beyond a doubt to anyone who has bothered to investigate the mechanics of it) governed by personal skill and betting on something like a horse race/sports game.

i haven't investigated any of this to any real degree at all. so i'm obviously ill-informed and/or naive in my views here. so i'll stop typing and go back to that assignment i was doing 35342 distractions ago.

[rpm]

and, by the way, has anyone read "cowboys full: the story of poker"? basically a history of the development of poker into what we know it as today. good read.

[Trons]

Karak rants 4-25.mp3

Karak rant from 2p2. It concerns Stars/Tilt and how they lied to us. It's the first proper anti-Stars/Tilt rant I've ever heard, seeing as most of the industry has been like fuck the DoJ.

Kinda tries to expose the naivety of many people who were like "Stars really cared about us man"...Karak is saying, no they didn't...Open your eyes, they're just as bent as any other international corporation.

I haven't actually heard anybody say that stars really cares about us, as individuals, they care about us as a customer, like any other corporation. To say that all corporations are bent, regardless of whether they are international or not, seems kind of, well, stupid.

Businesses that provide a service or entertainment need customers. The corporation providing the service needs to maintain that customer base or it's going out of business.

I also think that people had a pretty good idea, since 2006, that these sites were doing something not quite right to get our money, but nobody cared until we couldn't play anymore. I also think that there is a strong case, based on what I read, that the charges are not as air tight as some has made it out to be and it'll be an interesting trial, if the DoJ allows it to go to trial.

[Trons]

i don't understand why it being "online" makes it illegal as opposed to it being anywhere else.

I don't think anybody has said it's illegal because it's online. Most people hold to the idea that in the law's eyes, in the US, online poker is not illegal.

also, if it being played "online" makes it somehow more harmful than in a casino (where it's legal) i don't understand why online sports betting is legal.

Online could make it more "harmful" then a casino because, theoretically, you'd have easier access to it and you would not be dealing with (in the idea of poker) trained dealers who could potentially spot an addict. Not that I believe a dealer would, just saying. I thought online sports betting was specifically illegal.

so why are these people hell-bent on the idea that online poker is so bad? what's the differentiating factor between playing it live/online, assuming it's not on a rigged site like AP. and what's the differentiating factor between betting on a game which is (beyond a doubt to anyone who has bothered to investigate the mechanics of it) governed by personal skill and betting on something like a horse race/sports game.

Not my personal view, but there are some out there saying that, as previously mentioned, online is bad because of the easy access. If you're a degen gambler, you could, conceivably, sit down before work and donk off a buy-in or two, ect. If you have to go to a casino, that becomes much more difficult.

Being online also means that the sites can be based anywhere in the world, which means they probably do not fall under US jurisdiction when it comes to regulating. And your comparison about sports betting isn't all that accurate because I've known sports bettors who do a lot of research into their games, spreads, ect that it would be considered a skill. The biggest difference is the sports bettor has no direct control over the result, which isn't always true in Poker. In poker, the person playing can control things like bet size, pot size, ect to help determine the outcome of the hand.

i haven't investigated any of this to any real degree at all. so i'm obviously ill-informed and/or naive in my views here. so i'll stop typing and go back to that assignment i was doing 35342 distractions ago.

You should research it more. It's a pretty interesting topic, and it's pretty cool to see how some people attack (term used loosely) poker as gambling, and how people defend it by saying it's predominately a game of skill and therefore not gambling.

[StarGrinder]

i don't understand why it being "online" makes it illegal as opposed to it being anywhere else.

also, if it being played "online" makes it somehow more harmful than in a casino (where it's legal) i don't understand why online sports betting is legal.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Why is it okay for people to blow $1k up in Detroit or AC playing roulette, or spending half their paycheck on scratch-offs and fucking bingo, but I can't play a low stakes poker game online. And I'm still paying taxes on anything I cash out. WTF US govt

[rpm]

Being online also means that the sites can be based anywhere in the world, which means they probably do not fall under US jurisdiction when it comes to regulating. And your comparison about sports betting isn't all that accurate because I've known sports bettors who do a lot of research into their games, spreads, ect that it would be considered a skill. The biggest difference is the sports bettor has no direct control over the result, which isn't always true in Poker. In poker, the person playing can control things like bet size, pot size, ect to help determine the outcome of the hand.
.

i wasn't saying (at least didn't mean to say) there is no edge in sports betting. i was saying it was parallel to poker in that regard because there most definitely IS an edge possible to gained in sports betting. i also originally typed out the point about there being no direct control over the result in sports betting, but deleted it because in that respect it's the exact same as poker (ie we can "get it in good" and still lose, just as a sports bettor can make a +EV bet and then have his team's 5 best players break their legs during warm-up).

if online sports betting is illegal in the states, i obviously have no point. if online sports betting isn't illegal in the states, i still probably have no point.

thanks for your response.

[rpm]

I don't think anybody has said it's illegal because it's online. Most people hold to the idea that in the law's eyes, in the US, online poker is not illegal.
.

well, americans can go to a casino and lose as much of their net worth as they want (if they're losing enough, the casino will probably entice them to stay with free/cheap suites and drinks etc. they certainly do that here in oz) playing games of skill, such as poker or blackjack as well as games of pure chance (and certain long-term loss) such as roulette, 5bazillion different types of slot machine, cash wheels, bingo tickets, etc etc name your game

and americans cannot go online and play poker for money.

thus leading me to believe it's illegal because it's online. as contrasted to being legal when played at a casino.

[Jack Sawyer]

I haven't actually heard anybody say that stars really cares about us, as individuals, they care about us as a customer, like any other corporation. To say that all corporations are bent, regardless of whether they are international or not, seems kind of, well, stupid.

Businesses that provide a service or entertainment need customers. The corporation providing the service needs to maintain that customer base or it's going out of business.

I also think that people had a pretty good idea, since 2006, that these sites were doing something not quite right to get our money, but nobody cared until we couldn't play anymore. I also think that there is a strong case, based on what I read, that the charges are not as air tight as some has made it out to be and it'll be an interesting trial, if the DoJ allows it to go to trial.

I wanted to write exactly this, but I decided not to do it, as my wording would be a lot more stern and quasi-offensive.

Good post.

[Trons]

well, americans can go to a casino and lose as much of their net worth as they want (if they're losing enough, the casino will probably entice them to stay with free/cheap suites and drinks etc. they certainly do that here in oz) playing games of skill, such as poker or blackjack as well as games of pure chance (and certain long-term loss) such as roulette, 5bazillion different types of slot machine, cash wheels, bingo tickets, etc etc name your game

and americans cannot go online and play poker for money.

thus leading me to believe it's illegal because it's online. as contrasted to being legal when played at a casino.

This maybe where the misunderstanding lies. I've not been told that I can't go online to play poker for real money and I've never heard of a federal law that states that. This is one reason why the DoJ can't go after players.

Now, I understand that PS, FT and UB are not allowing US players right now, but I think a lot of that is because they are being indicted and were forced to stop providing the service to us under the indictment. It also stands to reason that they don't want us transferring funds to and from other people on the site while they get this all figured out.

I, for one, am really upset. I've never deposited money onto those sites. I built my bankroll by being staked for $50 and went from there. I've paid my $50 back and the money that is sitting in my accounts are money I won/earned.

Where the poker/sports betting analogy falls apart is that if you use the legal definition of gambling found here: Gambling Law & Legal Definition

A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence,

You'll see that sports betting is a future contingent event not under his control or influence. Any poker hand, unless you're all in preflop, you can influence the hand and/or how much you win by the choices you make, regardless of the hand you have. Sports betting, you can make informed decisions on who to bet on and what spread to take, but, ultimately, it's other people who will decide the outcome of that particular event and therefore it is outside your control, once the initial wager is placed.

[Shotglass]

This showdown between the US gub'ment and THE REST of the world has been brewing for a long time:
WTO rules against US gambling laws • The Register and is kicking off again: Antigua says U.S. online poker shutdown was illegal | Reuters.

I'm no legal expert but in order for fraud to be committed there has to be some sort of loss by the victims. There was no fraud committed in that the banks profited enormously by partnering with Stars and FTP. I completely disagree with the Karak rant in that disguising payment codings are STANDARD procedures. The porn industry does it ALL OF THE TIME.

This is a good read: 2011 April 22 | mpethypoker.com.

The FBI should have taught everyone something with their investigation, follow the money. Who stands to profit the most from the removal of Stars, FTP and UB from the market?
Why online poker should be legal - Apr. 26, 2011

[Shotglass]

And the hits just keep on comming:
ONLINE POKER BLACK FRIDAY: The Latest Updates | BLUFF Poker News

[bikes]

New cashout option available to me on Stars - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip

[drmcboy]

quote from thread (from random 2+2er)

Pokerstars Rep said he is hopeful/expects cashouts to be available for US players as early as today, if not today, within a few days. He says after cashouts are made, players should have their money within a couple of days.

Cashout methods will be different based on account balances. It's all gotta go in one cashout. If you have less than $1, you're screwed, but relax it's only a dollar. 10 grand + = bank wire, check, or e-checks. 50 grand plus = just bank wire. Strongly recommend e-check payment method for all players below $50,000. Don't know what he said for under 10 grand.

T$ will be converted to real money.

FPP discussions are happening with US government. Hoping to obtain approval for process of FPP redemption. Want to retain options for VIP store. Just waiting for discussion and approval from gov. Then it would be made available. But cashouts have been top priority. Working on FPP issue.

[BooG690]

Just put in a withdrawal request in (direct bank transfer for $2,600+). Will keep updated.

Bank wire has a minimum of $50,000. Jeezus.

[drmcboy]

it doesn't seem to be working 50k+ plus yet, it says the max is 49,000

[StarGrinder]

$50k minimum on direct BT? Gad-fucking-zooks!

[WeaselT]

Tried to cashout. My bank acct has 10 digits but they only give my space for 9. WTF? Emailed them, anybody know whats up with that?

[boost]

Except that there a HUUUGE value in NOT doing this because they are presumnably still going keep their companies going and to try to stay competitive in other markets outside of the US. I mean think of what the ramifications would be to other future customers (& current players) who will know that not only were Stars/FT knowingly involved in money laundering, bank fraud, collusion, & bribery in the states, but they refused to give the players (the real victims here) ther funds back. They screwed their customers --- big time.

In the states they were more or less our only options unless we wanted to play at tiny sites w/ no actions. In the UK & abroad, players would have to add that to the reasons NOT to play at FT or Stars and why Party might be the best option. After all, they did the exact opposite years ago & left the US because they knew it would be very very bad business. But if Stars/FT denied funds in the US how could anyone feel safe w/ them? How could they not think it's possible they were violating the financial laws in other countries as well that would make all players just as much as a risk.

What the hell are you talking about. The seized funds have nothing to do with giving players their balances back. Stars, FTP, and the DOJ are all cooperating to make sure players get their account balances back. These are completely separate issues.

The only reason I think I'll get my funds back is because of this. If they were thinking of closing up shop all together, then I'd be worried. But screwing the players like that would I'm sure send everyone running to Party & iPoker in a hurry.

Why would they close up shop? You are linking unrelated things together and getting all confused. Like you said, they will see to it that US players get their money back, because if they don't their reputation is ruined and no one will trust them anywhere. But this has nothing to do with whether they say "Fuck you!" to the DOJ when it comes time to serve jail time and/or pay massive fines. They are simply unrelated issues.

[fjuanl]

Tried to cashout. My bank acct has 10 digits but they only give my space for 9. WTF? Emailed them, anybody know whats up with that?

Lots of people seemed to have that problem. Apparently its fixed now

[drmcboy]

cashed out
sad panda

[baudib]

better than the alternative

[boost]

wait, so Americans are able to cash out from both stars and ftp now?

[BooG690]

Just Stars atm.

[bigspenda73]

just stars, hearing if you are cashing out more than $4k and have never done an ID verification Stars is making you do one now so be prepared to ship your ID, utility bill, bank statement, etc...

[Trons]

Will they allow me to cash out. The last time I tried, they said no because I had made a portion of my money through staking and I hadn't played enough with that winning. Are they waiving that requirement?

[BooG690]

Try and find out.

[boost]

I'm sure they will... but would be epicly bad if they didn't...

[Sasquach991]

Cashed out via bank transfer. Mixed emotions. Kinda sad to see $0.00 balance but happy that the zero balance was transferred to me instead of confiscated.

I'm up 30BIs in 3 days at 200NL in play money

[WeaselT]

I know that 0.00$ made me sad too....

[rowhousepd]

What the hell are you talking about. The seized funds have nothing to do with giving players their balances back. Stars, FTP, and the DOJ are all cooperating to make sure players get their account balances back. These are completely separate issues.

Yikes, sorry, you're right. For some reason I thought your original post was about whether Stars/FT would say f**k you to the players & not return their funds -- rather than not pay the fines (similar to the way Party did they left the market). My bad.

Like you said, they will see to it that US players get their money back, because if they don't their reputation is ruined and no one will trust them anywhere. But this has nothing to do with whether they say "Fuck you!" to the DOJ when it comes time to serve jail time and/or pay massive fines.

Right, but regardless I still wonder whether fact that they were (supposedly) bribing bank officials to process payments, etc., is also going to hurt their reputation. Yes, we all kinda figured something like that was going on, but they are the only ones who now have a very bad public relations mess on their hands. This is a separate issue from not returning funds to the players though which I think we all agree would be disastrous & thus we can probably assume it's going to happen.

[Shotglass]

Here's a news link for those poor souls with a bankroll on UB or AP:
Antigua seeks support in gaming dispute with US - Caribbean360

[rowhousepd]

A friend of mine made a great analogy today (which apparently he read somewhere) about the legalization issue, and I had to share:

Saying it's alright to play poker in a bricks & mortar casino but not at home is like saying you can go have a drink at a bar or night club, but it's totally illegal to have a glass of wine at your dinner table.

[celtic123]

Saying it's alright to play poker in a bricks & mortar casino but not at home is like saying you can go have a drink at a bar or night club, but it's totally illegal to have a glass of wine at your dinner table.

+rep

Is the issue still fraudulent activity or online poker legality?

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

do you guys think we should set aside 33% of our online rolls in anticipation of the government coming back to collect 'gambling tax' revenue on it next year?

[bode]

do you guys think we should set aside 33% of our online rolls in anticipation of the government coming back to collect 'gambling tax' revenue on it next year?

you should have already payed tax on your winnings. You pay tax on your winnings when you win them, not when you cash them out. For anything you have made so far this year, yes, you will have to pay takes on it next year.

[drmcboy]

got the normal 3-5 day email

Cashout request time: 2011/04/26 19:41
Cashout amount: USD BARGE


Dear cuthbertt,

A wire transfer for USD has been sent to your bank account XXX.

Please allow 3-5 business days for this transaction to show up on your statement.

Fees: PokerStars covers all fees charged by the sending bank, but you may be charged a fee by your bank and by an intermediary bank (if applicable) for receiving a wire transfer. The amount of the fee charged by receiving banks is normally approximately $30.00. For more information on your bank's policy concerning fees for receiving wire transfers, please contact your bank directly.

[bigspenda73]

cash out is now processed

a lot of people have already received their funds

[BennyLaRue]

Sales at Best Buy will spike this month, imo.

[drmcboy]

anyone thinking the WSOP could be big this year? Long term I'm sure no US poker online will be bad this year suddenly ~1/2 everyone's roll is off line...

[bigspenda73]

not everyone's, just people on Stars

FullTilt needs to get their ish together

[BooG690]

Received my funds today. In the bank, safe and sound. Go Stars.

[CBAT]

Received my funds today. In the bank, safe and sound. Go Stars.

Wow, fast BooG is fast. What method?

[StarGrinder]

Just cashed out on Stars. You're up FTP. Now what to do with all the FPPs.

[BooG690]

Bank transfer.

[Donachello]

For those FTP people who haven't seen it yet here is the FTP post from 2p2 recently.

Hi all,

I've been collecting your unanswered questions and asking around for the answers. The questions that I've "ignored" aren't answered below either because I don't have any kind of answer yet, I can't give any kind answer yet, or they're more general questions that I'll answer in the next "normal" Answers thread. Apologies for the long delay in posting again here. Unfortunately the process of posting is drawn way out when my answers need to be double and triple approved instead of my normal one man show.

We're also working on getting a FAQ page up on the US site soon.

1. Any estimate on when we [US players] can begin cashing out?

- Here's the official statement about this question: "Full Tilt Poker is diligently working on return of US Players funds which is a top priority and will have a further update for US customers by early next week."

2. What is the procedure for assessing the value of USA player accounts?
Tournament tickets (including IM freeroll tickets)
- Tournament tickets will be converted to their real money value before withdrawal. I don't have a final answer about freeroll tickets, but my best guess is they will be left untouched (not converted, but not taken from the account).
Cash game tickets (soon will be "expired cash game tickets")
- All Ring Game ticket balances will be converted to real money, even if they've expired since the 15th.
FTP points (as if converted to tourney tickets?)
- We're still looking into this one. It's unclear what we can do with FTPs, but they definitely won't just "go away."
IM medals (as if converted to tourney tickets?)
- We're still looking into this as well. My guess is they will be converted to FTPs once we determine what will be done with FTPs.
Bonuses in progress (pro rata as if points/medals refunded?)
- Bonuses purchased with points or medals will likely have their "unused" points/medals refunded. First time deposit bonuses (or any other non-purchased bonuses) will probably just expire.
IM progress in April (as if purchased up to 4 days for next level? medal value of freeroll?)
- We're looking into this as well, but I think we'll give a pro-rated April status (and medals) of some sort. The details still need to be worked out.
Unpaid rakeback (or cashback or whatever)
- This will be paid out as soon as possible. Almost definitely before cashouts are turned on.
Progress toward promised mid-year bonus
- This is still under discussion, but I think it's unlikely we'll pay out a potential bonus in cash. What might happen is that we preserve the "potential" from January through April and add it to the next one of those bonuses that our US players might be eligible for.
Accumulated months in IM
- These will be frozen in time until a player starts playing again. You won't have your streak broken because you can't play at the moment.
FTP Academy points
- Academy points will be treated the same as Iron Man medals, and likely be converted to FTPs.
Take 2 promotion
- Take 2 will be paid out (on a pro-rated basis of some sort since US players couldn't participate in the final day or two) as soon as possible, again before cashouts are turned on.

3. Will United States players who move to a new country be allowed to resume play at the site and/or withdraw their funds to a non-US bank account?

- I needed to get a very official answer on this one as well:

"Yes. But your existing account and balance will not yet be available on logging in. You will be required to provide sufficient proof of relocation, including your photo identification and proof of residency at your new address. You can then use non-US funds to play from outside the US. And, after return of your US funds, you will be able to use those funds as well from outside the US."

I know that's still a bit fuzzy, sorry about that. We'll work on clearing up all the details as soon as possible.

4. but Moneybookers are unavailable as a cashout option

- Sorry, this was my mistake. The MB issue is separate from other issues, and we're working with them to resolve the situation as soon as possible. I don't have an exact timeline for when it will be available again, but we're hopeful it will be soon.

5. I am a canadian player and it looks like Instadebit is disabled. Im just curious if you plan to use Instadebit in the near future?

- Instadebit should be up and running now. Let us know if that's not the case.

6. What about the money that the payment processors BOUNCED us in checks? And pending withdrawals via check that have not been received? Do we e-mail support with the bounced checks? Are the checks requested prior to 4/15 going to be received? Are they good?

- Definitely email [email protected] if a check bounced. If you already emailed them a while ago and they haven't gotten back to you, PM FTPSean and he will see if there's anything he can do to help speed things along. You should also email cashier with the other questions so they can look into the specific case for you as I don't think there's a general answer that covers all cases.

7. Is there an estimate time table for withdrawals to Neteller?

- Many players started getting their Neteller withdrawals late last week. There have been a couple of hiccups along the way, so there is still a bit of a delay until that clears up, but things are looking good to resume normal withdrawal speeds within a week or so.

8. cashed in medals for points last night but still haven't been credited my points.

- If you are in the US, we aren't currently processing Iron Man purchases. It's likely the order will be cancelled and you'll be refunded the medals. If you aren't in the US, there's currently a bit of a delay in the processing because of the US block. Sorry about that.

9. Can players in the US still buy things from the FTP store?

- Not at the moment, no.

10. What is going to be done with the multiple US players who were previously able to change their location?

- They have been reset back to have the United States as their country. They won't be disqualified from any tournaments they happened to enter, though.

11. Address the PMI issue

- We haven't forgotten about this. I haven't seen an update in about two weeks, as you might imagine, but I know we are still looking into it.

12. am I gonna get my tv i ordered last monday before Black Friday?

- For the moment the store isn't shipping to any US address. If your item already shipped it will get to you. If it was ordered but not yet shipped, it's been placed on hold. If it turns out we have to cancel those orders, your FTPs will be returned to your account. If you want more details about your specific order, please contact the FTP store at [email protected] and they can look up the status of your order.

13. when are you paying the take 2 money ?

- Non-US players should have already been paid for Take 2. For US players, see question 2. If you are a non-US player and haven't gotten paid for Take 2 yet, contact support and they will look into it for you. We were pretty conservative when it came to identifying players as US players so it's possible you were wrongly tagged and that's why you haven't gotten paid yet.

14. I'm very curious as to what will happen to players that made deposits that have not yet been collected from their bank accounts?

- At this point it's not clear what will happen here. We're looking into it and as soon as we know more we'll inform the affected players.

15. i just cashed out large parts of my roll via local bank transfer because i'm still not sure whats happening and i obviously wanna be rather safe than sorry. rumours say that full tilt went bankrupt and is going to have problems to pay out euro players once they start paying the players from the u.s. can you comment on that and explain why my money is supposed to be safe? i dont wanna go to stars or something bc i hate that site but when it comes to security/reliability stars is looking way better these days than full tilt. how can i be sure that my funds are really safe?

- We are not bankrupt. While there is some fallout from the US situation on non-US withdrawals (mostly in the form of delays), we won't have any problems paying out Euro (or any other) players, even after players in the US have their withdrawals processed.

16. why Webmoney still not working, sir?

- I'm hearing the Webmoney issue will be resolved within a week or so. Sorry for the delay.

17. What about FT [transaction] history. When will that be back up?

- Transaction History should be working again for US players tomorrow I think. If not tomorrow, then by next week at the latest. Sorry about that.

18. can us players still play the race to the main event freeroll?

- No, I'm afraid not.

19. We all need an answer to when and how long it should take for FTP support to get back to us.

- There are a couple of issues here. One is for US players getting nothing back except for a generic template explaining the current situation (or, worse, nothing at all). This was the advice given to support by our legal team, so their hands were tied. We're trying to get more clarity here as soon as possible as to what exactly they can and can't say (as opposed to the current "don't say anything" approach) so that support can be more helpful to US players. I do apologize for the length of silence coming from Full Tilt. It's a sensitive situation and I think we probably were a bit overly cautious here.

20. What will happen with my bankwire I req in early march that still hasnt gone thru?

- Contact [email protected] (or FTPSean if the cashier people haven't gotten back to you in a reasonable amount of time) with all of the details and they will look into it for you.

Again, let me apologize for the length of time it's taken to give these answers (and apologize for the fact that many of the answers aren’t very satisfying yet). I'm going to do my best to keep everyone as up to date as possible as often as possible, but the situation is complicated and I'm pretty limited in what I can say without a bunch of approval.

Doug

[drmcboy]

not everyone's, just people on Stars

FullTilt needs to get their ish together

~1/2 everyone's roll

I had equal amount on FT, I'm aware of the situation.

[CBAT]

Received bankroll as of today from stars in bank account.

[drmcboy]

got mine too,

[Halv]

Thanx DC, hopefully what they say about non-US neteller being back next week or so works out.

Gratz on getting bankrolls back USfish!

[Halv]

Fast forward 45 mins, half the FTP BR is safe in NETeller account.

Now if only the holy raptor lord will let AP funds be paid out as well..

[surviva316]

Fast forward 45 mins, half the FTP BR is safe in NETeller account.

Now if only the holy raptor lord will let AP funds be paid out as well..

are you even bothering withdrawing 250 at a time?

[surviva316]

PS: pokerstars is having me sending verifying documents. luckily they're only asking for photo ID and bill. i've heard of sites asking for a lot more than that (like whacky stuff i wouldn't even know where to find), but i guess since this is like my 10th withdrawal through them without an address change, they're goin easy on me? lol

[bigspenda73]

heard it was only for $4k+ withdrawals

so at least you got that goin for ya

[surviva316]

heard it was only for $4k+ withdrawals

so at least you got that goin for ya

well, in that case, hi5 on the thinly veiled brag!

[Miffed22001]

Applications at Best Buy will spike this month, imo.

FYP

[givememyleg]

Now if only the holy raptor lord will let AP funds be paid out as well..

better luck praying for world peace imo

[surviva316]

my money just hit my bank account. PS was very timely in responding to my documents being shipped. HI5!

still have a few k tied up between FTP/fpps/bounced check that hasn't been resolved yet

[jakegra]

I want it legalized! Online poker is a skill game we all love and we should all ban together to make it happen.

I started jiizzyshirts.com and created T-Shirts that Support Online Poker legislation.
All sales donate to the PPA! Check it out!

[bikes]

The more I read about AP the worse the news seems to get. Apparently they downsized 95% according to 2p2

[BooG690]

The more I read about AP the worse the news seems to get. Apparently they downsized 95% according to 2p2

This. There's also news that they will be spending any promotions, rakeback, and rake races.

Christ.

[surviva316]

This. There's also news that they will be spending any promotions, rakeback, and rake races.

Christ.

managed to post this during your 3 hour gym session?

[BooG690]

OH SHIT! I forgot about you!

[rowhousepd]

Link to this news anyone? 1,000,000+ threads on 2+2 about the big three these days.

[BooG690]

Can we discuss Cereus specifically? - Page 17 - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip

From post ~#1663 on...

[rowhousepd]

Can we discuss Cereus specifically? - Page 17 - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip

From post ~#1663 on...

Thanks.... and wow.

[oskar]

The last deuces cracked potcast was on cashing out and taxes only. In a nutshell: self reporting 'errors' in your tax report is usually trouble free. If you're not looking to gamble with the irs, you guys shold prolly look into that.

[givememyleg]

Can we discuss Cereus specifically? - Page 17 - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip

From post ~#1663 on...

lol jesus

[givememyleg]

better luck praying for world peace imo

imo

[bikes]

going rate for AP/UB on 2p2 is around .5-.6
not sure if anyone is buying though