FBI seizes domains of pokerstars, full tilt, ub.. (UPDATE: FTP MONIES!!!!!11)

[rpm]

I'm in Canada and have not been able to get on since yesterdays 'events'. It says there is an update, which constantly aborts. Others getting this? Anyway to circumvent? Anyone heard of pending action to rectify?

was having that problem all day yesterday. managed to get the new software downloaded last night.

[Openside]

was having that problem all day yesterday. managed to get the new software downloaded last night.

Do anything special or just kept opening the client and trying to download update? Thanks mate.

[rpm]

Do anything special or just kept opening the client and trying to download update? Thanks mate.

i didn't do anything except keep trying to open it every 20 minutes. eventually the download worked.

[Openside]

I am reading online that ppl having this issue need to uninstall and download the client from .uk

[kmind]

I am reading online that ppl having this issue need to uninstall and download the client from .uk

Can someone tell me the exact address please?

[donkbee]

Can someone tell me the exact address please?

Online Poker - Play Online at Full Tilt Poker Room

[kmind]

Online Poker - Play Online at Full Tilt Poker Room

Thanks Courtney. Also fulltiltpoker.org should work.

[ANGRYEAGLE]

Thanks for the link. I can now get in and see the games, but still cannot play real cash. I wonder if there is a way to change your IP add to somewhere in beautiful UK?

[LuckySlevin]

bountyjoker, why don't you look at doing some kind of web business? lots of potential out there, if you have the time and focus etc

[BountyJoker]

bountyjoker, why don't you look at doing some kind of web business? lots of potential out there, if you have the time and focus etc

wow yer a bunch of odd ducks i was commenting on the relavent thread 'poker' related instead i get life guidance thanks btw and bottom feeding subhuman foul remarks. lol thnxs 4 the feedback

[taipan168]

E-mail received from Stars when I asked them WTF was going on:

Hello taipan168,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately we experienced some technical issues, when you made your cashout request. This have been fixed and you will be able to request a cashout anytime you wish.

If there is anything else we can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Regards,

Christa
PokerStars Support Team

I put through another cashout request, let's see if it gets through. Until it does, no more playing on Stars for me. If it does, I might keep no more than $100-200 on the site and go from there.

[rpm]

supposedly, my FT withdrawal has been "processed" and "approved" and "will be in my account within 72 working hours". stars has not yet contacted me post-"processing" stage. both these are via direct bank transfer to australia.

[philly and the phanatics]

sorry to be so petulant but should i go ahead and withdraw my funds right meow? someone said something about getting an early place in line earlier. What are the rest of you guys gonna do (the americans)?

[supa]

sorry to be so petulant but should i go ahead and withdraw my funds right meow? someone said something about getting an early place in line earlier. What are the rest of you guys gonna do (the americans)?

I was planning on withdrawing all but $150 to help pay for a vacation at the end of the month, but now I don't know if I wanna fuck with it. I personally feel like this shits gonna blow over at some point but i've honestly just been waiting to see what other US players are doing. I'm sure my $750 roll seems insignifcant to others but the whole thing is fucking me up right now.

Gettin a bottle of Jack and some bbq shit and moving on to the drunk thread.

[rpm]

Gettin a bottle of Jack and some bbq shit and moving on to the drunk thread.

you, sir, would make a good australian by the sound of things.

[kingnat]

Professional vidya-gaming is about to get significantly more competitive...

[Donachello]

Professional vidya-gaming is about to get significantly more competitive...

lol for real. High school dream of being a Halo pro? Here we come! lol

[profnabeshin]

time for two things:
1- invest in beer stock
2- learn to deal poker (there will be tons more people comming to vegas to play live)

[daviddem]

Is there a way the PPA or the online players as a group could request from Stars and FTP to provide proof through an independant audit that they hold the players' money in accounts completely separate from their company's accounts, in cash or sufficiently liquid form such as money market shares, and are fully capable of paying back should ALL players want to cash out at one time?

This would be beneficial to them as well, as it would have the effect to reassure the players that their funds are safe and prevent a "run on the bank".

[Nakamura]

This will be a nice stress test for the liquidity of PS' and FT's funds. I imagine if they are prepared to disguise the nature of fund transfers from the government, they probably aren't adhering to liquidity laws either.

[rpm]

^^ that's what scares me.

[daviddem]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the "liquidity law" is not a US one, it seems to be a regulation from the Isle of Man where the companies are registered. I would dare to hope that they adhere to the laws of the country in which their company is registered...

[WillburForce]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the "liquidity law" is not a US one, it seems to be a regulation from the Isle of Man where the companies are registered. I would dare to hope that they adhere to the laws of the country in which their company is registered...

UK based on Isle of Man (small island of the mainland), which is full of tax avoiding companies. All pefectly legal.

Its been noticable how much they've been vamping up advertising in the UK - loads of TV shows, TV ads etc. Really pushing the European market.

They've known the US was gonna pull the plug fro a while. I would guess they have no actual worries about being taken to court or anything. They're a UK based company, so (from my limited knowledge) I can't see what the US courts can actually do to them. Obv other than stop US players playing.

Give it a couple of months and they'll be Pstars and Fulltilt, US based, paying US taxes.

[rpm]

^^ that's what comforts me.

(obviously i have no idea about this shit. poker is legal in my country and i have never had to look far into the legality of the financial transactions/poker sites etc. traditionally, i've just typed in how much money i want to put on there, pressed enter. then bought into my chosen poker games a few seconds later)

[Nakamura]

Well no sign of the money yet from Stars in my Neteller account. Usually it's there in the morning if I try withdraw the previous evening.

A point worth noting is that 14 bank accounts (some international ones too) have been frozen. Presumably that means even if they have a 1:1 liquidity ratio, that's going to put them under some financial pressure if a lot of folks put in withdraw requests. In a couple of days, if people don't get paid out, they will realise something is wrong and the panic will set in e.g. Northern Rock in the UK.

I guess now probably isn't the time to start questioning these things, but you begin to wonder what is happening with your cash when you deposit it at Stars or Full Tilt. It seems unlikely to me that all of it is sitting in liquid investments. The problem with liquid investments is that you get lower returns on the investment because it's not a guaranteed investment. These companies aren't well regulated so what difference does it make if half the pool of cash is in some long-term investments. I mean, it's not like that cash is ever used, right?

It seems odd that the owners of FT and PS appeared to out of the US when the shit hit the fan on Friday. They had a HU on the bust?

[rpm]

Well no sign of the money yet from Stars in my Neteller account. Usually it's there in the morning if I try withdraw the previous evening.

as much as i know next to nothing about any of the relevant concepts to understanding this recent debacle, couldn't this be very feasibly explained by an influx of cashout requests being dealt with by the site?

[Nakamura]

as much as i know next to nothing about any of the relevant concepts to understanding this recent debacle, couldn't this be very feasibly explained by an influx of cashout requests being dealt with by the site?

Yes, I'm not really worried yet. It makes sense to pay as many people out as they can to control the situation.

[WillburForce]

Oh and as for the liquidity law - I believe this standard with Gambling companies in UK. We have a long history of gambling in this country. We have 2-3 bookies on every high st, so they are just seen as normal companies.

The money being held (as far as I know) is not an actual asset that can be counted as the company's. It is kept seperatly and not counted on the bookie's net worth. Otherwise their net worth would look huge - but infact its a "liquid" asset.

So yes - all the money held by Stars would be completely seperate and safe....(I think)

[OngBonga]

From the wiki page on online poker...

(How online poker rooms profit)

"Fourth, like almost all institutions that hold money, online poker sites invest the money that players deposit. Regulations in most jurisdictions exist in an effort to limit the sort of risks sites can take with their clients' money. However, since the sites do not have to pay interest on players' bankrolls even low-risk investments can be a significant source of revenue."

Bearing in mind that PokerStars is based in the Isle of Man, one of the most regulated tax havens in the world, I'd say player balances are absolutely safe. It's likely that our money is sitting in a high interest bank account in Switzerland, where PS have immediate access to it.

FTP is based in the Channel Islands, another heavily-regulated British offshore tax haven.

Anyone who still uses the Cereus Poker Network (Absolute Poker & Ultimate Bet) after the cheating scandal of 2003 does not gain any sympathy off me if they are worried about their bankroll. They are based in Canada, I have no idea how well regulated Canada is (I imagine very well regulated, like the UK), though I would be concerned about the Canadian government's relationship with the USA, and if the USA are able to bully Canada into getting their way.

The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are self governing Crown Dependancies, they are not obliged to follow mainland UK policy, so even if the UK changes it's policy to suit America (which we won't), it will take time for these changes to be accepted into law in the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, if at all they are accepted.

Honestly, I don't think people need to worry about their funds, even Americans. The US govt certainly does not have access to, nor any right to claim, our bankrolls. I'm leaving mine on stars unless it looks like the site is going down, which I just can't see happening with the massive number of non-USA players still able and willing to play there. Stars will remain the largest poker room imo, and the rich pros of America are likely to leave for Europe. Small-time players in America who can't relocate, or are unwilling to, will just end up paying tax probably. All the US govt want is a slice of the cake.

[dev]

All the US govt want is a slice of the cake.

This may be true but the US gov't doesn't act rationally or even in it's own best interests. If it did online poker would have been regulated a decade ago or more and we would have some clue of what the IRS wants us to put on our tax forms.

[baudib]

Well this has been a weekend that's been depressing and mindblowingly beyond belief. I did have a really nice live score on Black Friday, but I'm expecting my games to get a hella lot tougher now.

I finally bought an iphone and I'm off on vacation for a few days -- best timing ever. Will be good to get away and have a new toy to play with.

I am backing a friend who has most of his net worth stuck on FullTilt in a live donkament today. Part of our arrangement is that he'll return the favor when I need it, as I suspect I will at some point.

It'll be nice if I wake up Monday on the beach and learn there was some sort of minor good news. I wish all of you/us some life run good and will be back on soon.

[CBAT]

Well this has been a weekend that's been depressing and mindblowingly beyond belief. I did have a really nice live score on Black Friday, but I'm expecting my games to get a hella lot tougher now.

I finally bought an iphone and I'm off on vacation for a few days -- best timing ever. Will be good to get away and have a new toy to play with.

I am backing a friend who has most of his net worth stuck on FullTilt in a live donkament today. Part of our arrangement is that he'll return the favor when I need it, as I suspect I will at some point.

It'll be nice if I wake up Monday on the beach and learn there was some sort of minor good news. I wish all of you/us some life run good and will be back on soon.

Lol if I didn't know better I would have thought I posted this myself. In the exact same boat as you right now minus the staking and live score.

[ANGRYEAGLE]

I can still play cash games on UB. Full Tilt will not even get past the updater. Pokerstars will not let me play real money, but I can still play play money. This seriously sucks. I miss my Fulltilt!

[Penneywize]

RE: Ongbonga's post, I had thought that Cereus was actually based out of Kahnawake, which is a native reservation outside of Montreal; so as for conforming to Canadian law... nah.

I'd also thought that poker is still very much a legal gray area at this point in time; i.e. one can't just open up a poker site here and apply for a license or whatever.

Correct me if I'm wrong on either count, though.

[derekeverett]

RE: Ongbonga's post, I had thought that Cereus was actually based out of Kahnawake, which is a native reservation outside of Montreal; so as for conforming to Canadian law... nah.
.

This is absolutely correct. (Pardon the pun)

They are outside the jurisdiction of Canadian law enforcement. They are self governed and self policed.

[sinister1]

Not the greatest site out there, but Bodog is still open to US players and you can get money off easily and quickly. I have played there and also cashed out successfully in the last 24 hours. Not sure how deposits would work, but its worth a shot if you really want to play. It is a pretty soft site if you can deal with the awful software and poor MTT structures. Cash games are fine so long as you are ok with no more than 4 tables and terrible rakeback

[PlayToWin]

Damnit, I just got back in town. I was pissed that I couldn't play while I was gone. Now, I see I couldn't have played anyway.

Since I can still access the PS client, I made screenshots on my cashier page, etc. It probably won't do much good in claiming money later, but at least I'll have the memories.

[OngBonga]

RE: Ongbonga's post, I had thought that Cereus was actually based out of Kahnawake, which is a native reservation outside of Montreal; so as for conforming to Canadian law... nah.

I'd also thought that poker is still very much a legal gray area at this point in time; i.e. one can't just open up a poker site here and apply for a license or whatever.

Correct me if I'm wrong on either count, though.

I have no idea, to be honest. All I know about Kahnawake is that it's near Quebec, and I know a big fat fuck all about Canadian law in pretty much every area. I didn't really bother to look anything up regarding Kahnawake, I was focussing more on the UK dependancies where PS and FTP are based, since I'm more familiar with the status of these locations.

[JeffreyGB]

In the end, it is very likely that this will push things to the point that we finally get a clear ruling on the grey legal area under which online poker has fallen since at least 2000. Hopefully, it can pave the way to an open and regulated online poker industry throughout the US.

US Players, if there is anyway you can participate in the plan to phone ALL US congress members repeatedly about this issue for the next week, PLEASE do so. Details, tips on what to say, and phone numbers to call are up at http://www.pokerxanadu.com/actionplan.htm

[kiwiMark]

Rats.

[supa]

Any chance we can get a sticky with all the pertinent links like GS jeffs above? I think Boog had a link to contact congressmen and I have no idea what I may have missed. Just so we can have everything on one page and everyone can do their part a little easier.

Also, if there's anything that I can do I can volunteer some time to FTR or related entities, I'm not really good at anything but wtf, I'd like to help if I can.

[BooG690]

I think Boog had a link to contact congressmen and I have no idea what I may have missed.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ad-186850.html

[supa]

Thanks Boog, but my point is that if we can get all of the info in one spot, alot of us can be more productive in making this stuff happen.

The link is great but knowing what to say to our congress people would make a world of difference. Standing at the door screaming "I want my Miracle Whip!" isn't gonna get much done.

I guess the PPA probably has more info and I'll try to find a link, but having all of that in the same place seems to make the most sense to me.

[supa]

Thanks Boog, but my point is that if we can get all of the info in one spot, alot of us can be more productive in making this stuff happen.

The link is great but knowing what to say to our congress people would make a world of difference. Standing at the door screaming "I want my Miracle Whip!" isn't gonna get much done.

I guess the PPA probably has more info and I'll try to find a link, but having all of that in the same place seems to make the most sense to me.

PPA: Action Center

Click link, edit message (or not), send.

[daven]

latest update from FTP includes this popup


stars games are looking better than ftp games right now

[revolvingiris]

I personally am not attempting to remove any funds off of any of the sites. Getting your money stuck in limbo would be the absolute worst thing ever (only applies to US).

I also worry about how much emailing and calling will really do. Sadly I have no better alternative ...Good luck to everyone during this pile of shit scenario. It was very much not needed and could have been handled in a much better fashion (morally).

[dthorne04]

DAY 2 QJ LIVE SHOW on USTREAM: BLACK FRIDAY.

very good listen, especially right now.

[daviddem]

Disclaimer: this may be an extremely bad idea, and may get you in trouble (and it might not work)

If you are a US player and you can't play and your funds are blocked in FTP or PS, you *could* try to use a VPN to fake being in Europe or elsewhere in the world. If the only method used by the poker rooms to determine your location is IP geolocation, it will work. Im my experience, that is what they do in normal cicumstances to decide if you are eligible to play in some regional tournaments or your country is restricted from playing on the site, etc. However in this case I am not sure whether they took extra precautions such as looking at registered addresses and origin of your deposits.

Regardless, it may be a bad idea as you would be breaking the law and the regulations of the poker rooms. Just giving the info in case you want to take the chance. Just Google "VPN providers" and you shall find. At some point I was using UltraVPN to play from Saudi Arabia and the Philippines and was happy with their price and service, but there are many others out there. I now have set up my own OpenVPN server on the router of my parents' house in Belgium, so when I need to I connect to it for free. Other advantage is that their IP is never going to make it to some blacklist of commercial VPN providers... So if you have knowledgeable friends in Europe who are willing to share a bit of their bandwidth with you, that would be the way to go.

[lolzzz_321]

Disclaimer: this may be an extremely bad idea, and may get you in trouble (and it might not work)

If you are a US player and you can't play and your funds are blocked in FTP or PS, you *could* try to use a VPN to fake being in Europe or elsewhere in the world. If the only method used by the poker rooms to determine your location is IP geolocation, it will work. Im my experience, that is what they do in normal cicumstances to decide if you are eligible to play in some regional tournaments or your country is restricted from playing on the site, etc. However in this case I am not sure whether they took extra precautions such as looking at registered addresses and origin of your deposits.

Regardless, it may be a bad idea as you would be breaking the law and the regulations of the poker rooms. Just giving the info in case you want to take the chance. Just Google "VPN providers" and you shall find. At some point I was using UltraVPN to play from Saudi Arabia and the Philippines and was happy with their price and service, but there are many others out there. I now have set up my own OpenVPN server on the router of my parents' house in Belgium, so when I need to I connect to it for free. Other advantage is that their IP is never going to make it to some blacklist of commercial VPN providers... So if you have knowledgeable friends in Europe who are willing to share a bit of their bandwidth with you, that would be the way to go.

Did you play at Pstars or FTP?

Pstars Rep said they have sophisticated means of seeing where you're at - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=987

[PlayToWin]

"With the seizure of the websites, it is unclear what will happen to the funds of U.S. players who have accounts on the websites. In 2007, NETELLER, a firm that handled online gambling transactions, was charged by prosecutors from the New York U.S. Attorney's Office but entered into a deferred prosecution agreement with the U.S. government and returned such funds to their owners."

Internet Poker Companies Indicted for Fraud, Money Laundering - ABC News

[daviddem]

Did you play at Pstars or FTP?

Pstars Rep said they have sophisticated means of seeing where you're at - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=987

Before the events, this VPN thing was for sure working on FTP and Titan Poker. Never tried it on PS.

Of course they can always blacklist the known public/commercial VPN IP addresses or run some detection of active OpenVPN processes on your machine via the poker client. But I am pretty sure there are ways around this, like using a private VPN server (can't be blacklisted) or preventing detection of the running OpenVPN processes on your machine.

I am in the Philippines now and I just connected to my account on PS through my VPN server in Belgium. It works and I didn't get any kind of warning message about running openVPN processes. Haven't yet tried registering into a Belgium or Benelux only tourney, because there is none open for registration at this time. Might give that a go later.

As far as I know, openVPN is transparent, so from the poker server viewpoint everything happens exactly as if the poker client was running on the openVPN server machine, wherever that machine is located. So in other words, only IP banning of public servers and poker client-side detection would be possible. Of course, if you start doing stupid sh*t like connecting without VPN from a US IP and the next minute connect through your VPN server in Europe, that is detectable from the Poker server side with appropriate routines. Then it would mean you would have traveled from the US to Europe in that one minute, or that you are sharing your account with some Euro guy...

[dneureiter]

Before the events, this VPN thing was for sure working on FTP and Titan Poker. Never tried it on PS.

When FTP and PS quit in washington I could play on my FTP account while in europe when it was still registered to my Washington address but i had to verify my residence in europe before I could play on stars again.

[daviddem]

When FTP and PS quit in washington I could play on my FTP account while in europe when it was still registered to my Washington address but i had to verify my residence in europe before I could play on stars again.

OK so it means that a player registered in the US and on a trip abroad cannot play on Pokestars at all? Pretty restrictive if you ask me and nice way to loose customers.

[revolvingiris]

Did you play at Pstars or FTP?

Pstars Rep said they have sophisticated means of seeing where you're at - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=987

FWIW VPNs do work and its how people have managed to multi account. Sure some have been caught but I would have to say the majority haven't. Unless PS has some hackers who are frequently able to crack connections seen fit by most online banking institutions (128bit). Also, you can get higher encryptions still (2048bit) which is typically used by NASA or other gov operations and is considered almost uncrackable (unless you have 4 lifetimes+ to dedicate).

The big part is cashing out since you have have to change your residency and get a bank within your new claimed area. Getting an off shore bank account isn't the easiest since you typically have to show where you live OR you list you are from the USA. Either way a good majority of off shore banks will comply with USA if they ask for documents regarding one of their citizens committing fraudulent activity.

I do not recommend going through this hassle and it is obviously illegal. It is possible but you have to go through a lot. If you make enough to where it is worth it, just move to a new country. If it is not worth it based on how much you make playing poker. Your better off going for a career change IMO or start crushing live.

[philly and the phanatics]

lol FTR is such a euro site

[badandy519]

I don't even know where to start here... I can't say this with 100% certainty, but if you are in the US and you have $$ on Stars or Tilt, you should have access to your funds within a reasonable amount of time (3-6 months max?) if you don't already. Typically, the way businesses operate that have a significant amount of $$ that isn't "theirs" is they need to keep those funds completely separate from money used to operate their day to day business in escrow or trust accounts, but this could be entirely different where Stars and Tilt are incorporated. Any lawsuit/sanctions/fines etc would have to be paid by their operating funds, not by money they hold for other people.

I work for a payment processor in the US. We did process for N3T3ller up until that shit hit the fan. It was definitely a couple of interesting days when all that came down. I can't really talk about any of that on here, but if anyone wants to discuss anything about it further, feel free to PM me.

[daviddem]

So let me get this right: apparently it is illegal for an American resident to play on Pokerstars. It is apparently not illegal for an American citizen residing in Europe, since what they require is proof of residency, not proof of citizenship. However, a European residing in Europe but visiting in the US supposedly also cannot access real money games because the IP he connects from in the US would be blocked to do so.

So what's the score here and what are the rules and how are they enforced? I argue that if I have provided proof of European residency (even if I am a US citizen), but am currently visiting in the US, then I should be allowed to log into my account and play real money games without breaking the law and without having to use deceptive tactics such as connecting through a VPN.

[bigred]

So what's the score here and what are the rules and how are they enforced? I argue that if I have provided proof of European residency (even if I am a US citizen), but am currently visiting in the US, then I should be allowed to log into my account and play real money games without breaking the law and without having to use deceptive tactics such as connecting through a VPN.

Sounds like too much work to regulate for the amount of players who will fall into this category.

[bigred]

Well, Happy Monday. Perhaps we'll get some more information instead of just speculation since the world has returned from the weekend.

[daviddem]

Sounds like too much work to regulate for the amount of players who will fall into this category.

The point I was trying to make is that filtering only by IP geolocation is inefficient (easily circumvented by VPN's) and unfair (some players, though a minority, should be allowed to play from the barred location because the restriction should not apply to them as they are not residents or citizens of the location they play from).

Filtering only by requiring proof of residency/ID's etc is also phony because open to frauds such as people taking temporary residence abroad, duly registering their accounts and then moving back to where they come from and play from there, without notifying the poker room of the change, or people opening accounts for others into leniant countries for a vig.

If you combine both of the above solutions, what you get is the likes of France, where France-residing players can only play from France with other France-residing players currently being in France. Pretty sad and by the way also open to fraud via a combination of VPN's and same account trafficing as above: players residing abroad can play on pokerstars.fr through a French VPN server on accounts opened for them by French residents. More importantly, other way works as well: French players can (and do) still play on pokerstars.com through accounts opened for them from abroad by a third party and then connecting to this account through a VPN server located in that country. The third party also handles deposits and withdrawals from the poker room.

Let's face it, the whole point here is tax money. Governments see these billions of raked dollars and cannot get their hand in the eggs basket, that's what pisses them off. And I guess it's fair enough.

I think a hint of a solution for keeping online poker truly global is via an international treaty, in which participating countries would get their fair share of tax prorata of what residents from that country have raked or whatever. At the same time the agreement should strongly regulate what poker rooms can and cannot do, penalties for cheats, rake, getting rid of that affiliates' system nonsense, etc.

You're forgetting the security side of things here. If your poker account is logged into from some random IP address in Europe then their first thought is fraud. It's definitely to the customer's benefit that they have such measures in place.

Really, so people who travel or go on holiday should be assumed to be cheats and fraud can only occur from abroad? What if you connect with your laptop from the Starbucks next door? Should you also be assumed to be a cheat? If not, could a cheat not possibly hack your account from the Starbucks next door? Besides such cheats being abroad could also use the VPN technique to appear to be in the country of origin of the account they hacked. So from a security perspective, filtering by IP geolocation is very inefficient.

A more efficient way to improve security would possibly be to allow an account to play only from a few unique poker clients strictly linked to that one account (for example one from your desktop, one from your laptop and one from the desktop of your secondary residence). Each poker client would be made unique by using a specific encryption key linked to a single account (or a few of them: yours and your wife's for example) during an adequate registration and verification process.

[Ash256]

Really, so people who travel or go on holiday should be assumed to be cheats and fraud can only occur from abroad? What if you connect with your laptop from the Starbucks next door? Should you also be assumed to be a cheat? If not, could a cheat not possibly hack your account from the Starbucks next door? Besides such cheats being abroad could also use the VPN technique to appear to be in the country of origin of the account they hacked. So from a security perspective, filtering by IP geolocation is very inefficient.

Calm down, I was just pointing out a minor oversight. I know you're pissed off with the situation but gtfo with these ridiculous strawman arguments.

You obviously have a lot of very interesting views, you should write them all down in a letter to PokerStars, I'm sure they'll make for fascinating reading.

[bode]

god damn Fnords "skyisfallingcashoutnow" posts ITT tilted the fuck out of me. i have less than $1k left online between PS and FTP, but i dont know why anyone in the US would think there is any chance trying to cash anything out between friday and now would be a good idea.

[bigred]

IP filtering is an easy way to show due diligence (hey gov'ment we tried to enforce your laws) without having to invest a ton of money into new technology and/or employee overhead for things like residency verification, etc.

I'm not saying its fair, just simple.

Also, @ your response to second quote, it was stated that the first thought is a hacked account...not the final conclusion. I think that is a fair and accurate statement.

I think a lot of your arguments, while they may be logical and probably makes sense, are very specific and may not make sense implementing from the perspective of a large scale company given the current state of affairs and industry regulation.

[daviddem]

IP filtering is an easy way to show due diligence (hey gov'ment we tried to enforce your laws) without having to invest a ton of money into new technology and/or employee overhead for things like residency verification, etc.

I'm not saying its fair, just simple.

Also, @ your response to second quote, it was stated that the first thought is a hacked account...not the final conclusion. I think that is a fair and accurate statement.

I think a lot of your arguments, while they may be logical and probably makes sense, are very specific and may not make sense implementing from the perspective of a large scale company given the current state of affairs and industry regulation.

The trouble is that what we seem to be poised for is the French model. IMHO this is the most likely short term resolution of the current US problem, and that is the one several other countries have already adopted or are currently considering. This makes the business of the government and should at least partially content whichever poker rooms will be running the show. But what of us, the players? Is a secluded and partioned poker world what we want for the future? Don't think so. Although I guess it's better than nothing, I wouldn't want to settle for that without at least trying to get something going towards a truly global, properly regulated online poker world.

[bigred]

The trouble is that what we seem to be poised for is the French model. IMHO this is the most likely short term resolution of the current US problem, and that is the one several other countries have already adopted or are currently considering. This makes the business of the government and should at least partially content whichever poker rooms will be running the show. But what of us, the players? Is a secluded and partioned poker world what we want for the future? Don't think so. Although I guess it's better than nothing, I wouldn't want to settle for that without at least trying to get something going towards a truly global, properly regulated online poker world.

Agree completely.

FWIW, I don't think the secluded model would be terrible if we could at least legalize and bring back some of the fish. In the long run, I don't see how this would last as the benefits of a global model far outweigh the negatives. I think it's just a matter of time.

[redih]

Time to hit up Foxwoods while my "bank" PS account based out of France waits for cashout request to go. Only keeping 10% of my roll in my US based account after the scare 3 years ago was a smart idea.

They'll get you your money, PS called Friday to let everybody know what was going on. It'll take a while though, they've known it was coming for a while.

[bikes]

dear everyone. let me emphasis this in the most clear way I can.


DONT FUCKING USE A VPN

if you don't know exactly what you are doing you could make the current situation a lot worse for yourself. possibly leading to even more extreme wait times for your monies or a forfeiture of those monies. who knows, given the current events, what kind of penalties they would inflict on you if caught.

[spoonitnow]

dear everyone. let me emphasis this in the most clear way I can.


DONT FUCKING USE A VPN

if you don't know exactly what you are doing you could make the current situation a lot worse for yourself. possibly leading to even more extreme wait times for your monies or a forfeiture of those monies. who knows, given the current events, what kind of penalties they would inflict on you if caught.

+1

[Lukie]

edited because I don't want to add to the hysteria.

suffice it to say, I think using a VPN is a very bad idea.

[revolvingiris]

dear everyone. let me emphasis this in the most clear way I can.


DONT FUCKING USE A VPN

if you don't know exactly what you are doing you could make the current situation a lot worse for yourself. possibly leading to even more extreme wait times for your monies or a forfeiture of those monies. who knows, given the current events, what kind of penalties they would inflict on you if caught.

My post was meant to be more directed in this area. You have to know what you are doing otherwise the option is VERY bad...Another option that hasn't totally presented itself yet is the option of a grind house. Canada ain't that far for some of us

[BooG690]

BWIN.PARTY DGTL EN Share Price | BPTY.L- Yahoo! UK & Ireland Finance

Bwin stocks up ~30%.

[boost]

daviddem, please don't spew text diarrhea. It is not illegal for a U.S. citizen to play. It is not illegal for a US resident to play. If it is in fact actually illegal to play poker online (I still think this is a grey area, and that the FBI warning is ambiguous in that it could just be referring to payment processors and affiliates) then it is illegal for anyone currently on U.S. soil. If a wanker from across the pond comes over here, he will get pulled over when he drives on the left side of the road. It doesn't matter that this is the legal lane to drive in back in the U.K., it is illegal here. Similarly, if there were an American law that made it illegal to drink vodka on a Sunday, an American visiting Poland could happily enjoy a fifth of Belvedere on a lazy Sunday Afternoon without fear of prosecution by either the Polish courts of the American courts.

Now the sites can chose what the criteria is for exclusion. And so the requirements to play will differ from site to site.

Also, I don't know that I'm as opposed to using a VPN as some others. I probably won't do it, but to be clear, it is not as simple as just getting some random VPN service. If you don't know what you're doing and don't set it up/ have it setup properly, when you VPN connection drops for whatever reason, your client will auto try to connect via your normal connection. For some less stringent sites this is a non issue, but who knows what parameters they have set to throw up red flags. Also, you need more than just a VPN for even the least stringent sites. You virtually need to mimic having taken residence in whatever country you chose. That means you need a mailing address, a phone, bank acct, etc. And that leads us to a real legal grey area where what we are doing in order to play (while still residing in the states) is not dissimilar to bank fraud/money laundering.

So the reasonable choices seem to be A) move on, stop being a fat lazy internet dweller with Dorrito stained fingertips and get out into the real world, or B) move to another country and carry on being an internet warrior.

[Lukie]

So the reasonable choices seem to be A) move on, stop being a fat lazy internet dweller with Dorrito stained fingertips and get out into the real world, or B) move to another country and carry on being an internet warrior.

The vast majority of ways to make money online do not involve playing poker. They also tend to be much more difficult, despite what some poker players will tell you about how hard the game is due to having imperfect information (which everyone deals with) and rake (a legit point), and how mentally difficult it is to withstand variance. I'd argue that putting up with a boss while working in a cubicle 8+ hours a day and living paycheck-to-paycheck is a lot more stressful than 10 buyin downswings.

But ya, that was mostly just a tangent, I agree with you that for the foreseeable future, living in the U.S. and making money playing online poker are completely incongruent.

[kevster]

The cheeky marketing emails have started......

What a weekend! As turmoil hits the felts of illegally operating poker sites in the US, I thought I’d drop you a note as to why Ladbrokes Poker can be trusted as one of the safest sites around.

For starters Ladbrokes are a PLC and they have group revenues of more than a billion so they know what they are doing with customers’ money. Depositing on Ladbrokes Poker is straight forward and secure using multiple methods. Ladbrokes Poker is regulated by the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority meaning there is no danger of your money going anywhere. Considering Ladbrokes have been around for over a hundred years I doubt they are going anyplace sometime soon, do you?

[StarGrinder]

^ lasted for 8 pages, usually it hits well before that