Family calls shooting of car thief ‘senseless’

[kiwiMark]

And again it's not about materialistic objects. If somebody breaks into your home and is unfazed by the fact that somebody is actually there, it's not about your 'things' anymore, it's about you.

We're just going to have to chalk this up to an American vs Euro thing.

Maybe I'm offbase here, but it's starting to seem like the 'American' argument is: "In the worst situations, it will be a positive to have a gun"

and the 'Euro' argument is "In bad situations that aren't these worst situations, having a gun is going to be a negative not a positive"

ie. not really an argument that's coming head-to-head


edit: looks like JKDS might've beaten me while I was typering

[Lukie]

Maybe I'm offbase here, but it's starting to seem like the 'American' argument is: "In the worst situations, it will be a positive to have a gun"

and the 'Euro' argument is "In bad situations that aren't these worst situations, having a gun is going to be a negative not a positive"

ie. not really an argument that's coming head-to-head


edit: looks like JKDS might've beaten me while I was typering

That is a reasonable viewpoint. There are a lot of people out there who shouldn't own a gun. For example those who are hotheaded, chronic drunks, or who otherwise might make extremely poor decisions in stressful situations probably would be better off keeping their cell phone charged and hoping for the best.

In a legitimate life or death situation though I can't imagine that having a gun would actually be a liability more than an asset. I would be curious to see some statistics or related stories to back up that point. I'm open to that possiblity but it would be very counterintuitive. There are countless stories out there of home defense with a firearm, as would be expected in a country of ~300 million people with a generally pro gun mentality.

[Savy]

In a legitimate life or death situation though I can't imagine that having a gun would actually be a liability more than an asset.

What do you mean by a life or death situation?

If someone is setting out to kill you, then yes a gun is obviously a good thing to own. Having a gun turns situations that aren't life or death into life or death situations though. For example, burglaries.

The stats and stuff are all available online, I'll let you search for them yourself.

[Lukie]

What do you mean by a life or death situation?

If someone is setting out to kill you, then yes a gun is obviously a good thing to own. Having a gun turns situations that aren't life or death into life or death situations though. For example, burglaries.

The stats and stuff are all available online, I'll let you search for them yourself.

The point is that if you are home, you don't really know if it is a burglary or a home invasion. It's easy to classify them after the fact but with what you are suggesting, all of the risk is on the innocent home owner.

I would rather see 10 burglars get shot and killed than see 1 innocent woman be raped and killed. Of course I would rather see NONE of these things happen, but it is the home invader that is pressing the action. If there is a deterrent effect even better (and there is.)

As it is we are almost certain to disagree on this and that is fine with me too.

[kiwiMark]

I would rather see 10 burglars get shot and killed than see 1 innocent woman be raped and killed. Of course I would rather see NONE of these things happen, but it is the home invader that is pressing the action. If there is a deterrent effect even better (and there is.)

As it is we are almost certain to disagree on this and that is fine with me too.

I guess a question would be how many innocent women are you willing to see shot and killed defending their TV under the mistaken belief they're defending their life and vagina, in order that the one woman who was legitimately about to get raped and killed kills her assailant?

[Lukie]

I guess a question would be how many innocent women are you willing to see shot and killed defending their TV under the mistaken belief they're defending their life and vagina, in order that the one woman who was legitimately about to get raped and killed kills her assailant?

It's not just rape. It's all types of violent/injurious crime and forcible felonies. To answer your question I don't know. And like the buttons questions, it's interesting and worth debating for us game theory nerds, but I'm not sure how practical the discussion is.

[kiwiMark]

It's not just rape. It's all types of violent/injurious crime and forcible felonies. To answer your question I don't know. And like the buttons questions, it's interesting and worth debating for us game theory nerds, but I'm not sure how practical the discussion is.

Agree 100%

[Savy]

The point is that if you are home, you don't really know if it is a burglary or a home invasion. It's easy to classify them after the fact but with what you are suggesting, all of the risk is on the innocent home owner.

I would rather see 10 burglars get shot and killed than see 1 innocent woman be raped and killed. Of course I would rather see NONE of these things happen, but it is the home invader that is pressing the action. If there is a deterrent effect even better (and there is.)

As it is we are almost certain to disagree on this and that is fine with me too.

This post implies that all people who rob are bad people, that's not true for a start.

The actual solution lies in sorting out the social problems which leads people to do things they shouldn't do, like rob peoples houses. Guns don't deter people, very few people rob houses for shits and giggles. They do it because they need the money. All guns seem to do is escalate the majority of problems which they are supposedly meant to alleviate.

And like I have said, if someone is imposing an immediate real threat to you in your own home I have no problem using self defence, even if that does mean shooting someone.

[Lukie]

This post implies that all people who rob are bad people, that's not true for a start.

The actual solution lies in sorting out the social problems which leads people to do things they shouldn't do, like rob peoples houses. Guns don't deter people, very few people rob houses for shits and giggles. They do it because they need the money. All guns seem to do is escalate the majority of problems which they are supposedly meant to alleviate.

And like I have said, if someone is imposing an immediate real threat to you in your own home I have no problem using self defence, even if that does mean shooting someone.

Ok well when you figure out a way to sort out all the social problems out there let me know. Trust me, I would rather live in Utopia as well.

[Savy]

Ok well when you figure out a way to sort out all the social problems out there let me know. Trust me, I would rather live in Utopia as well.

http://www.skyscanner.net/flights/us...pril-2013.html