Quote Originally Posted by Lukie View Post
Some of these are good points. Some of it is speculative and may not actually be the case.

I made the point earlier in the thread that some concealed carry folks take things too far, meaning that they want to be armed as well as a uniformed police officer (perhaps not completely unreasonable), or (much worse) have an itchy trigger finger and seem to be waiting for someone to cross the line on what would allow deadly force. These attitudes are common on gun boards, and frankly, rather scary.

The actual statistics on CCW states and permit holders is much more friendly. States than enact CCW licenses usually see a decrease in violent crime, and CCW holders as a whole are much less likely to committ any crime than non-holders. So the idea that society turns into the wild west with the allowance of CCW isn't reality.

I personally have a CCW license. I don't often carry a gun, despite the urging of some people that I should. If I ever have to go into very bad neighborhoods like East Cleveland (and I do have a close family member who works in the area), the question isn't whether I am bringing a concealed gun, it's whether or not I am also going to bring a backup gun. Actually that's not really true; I have never carried 2 guns and unless my career path takes an unexpected turn into military or law enforcement, I likely never will. But I'm also not going to rely on pepper spray lol.

Which brings me to another point. Most women are bigger targets than men and inherently have less of an ability to defend themselves if for no other reason than physical size and strength. Many women recognize this and do carry something, but it's often some 5 year old dinky mace on a keychain buried in a purse. It is interesting that arguably the demograph who would benefit more from carrying a gun is actually far less likely to have one in practice.

There have been accidents, road rage incidents etc. that have been needlessly escalated due to presence of firearms, but that is a tiny percentage of overall violence. Also I will say that I am not a vigilante hero, I'm not a police officer, and I'm not going to run to try to save the day. If somebody were to stick a gun in my face or there was another similarly hopeless situation or one that technically I could draw and it just wouldn't be smart, of course I wouldn't. I would much, much rather de-escalate the situation than the reverse.

I agree that the notion that someone's cache of small arms has even the slightest hope or prayer against a well-equipped, modern army is ridiculous. At that point we are getting into the fringes of fantasy and I can't help but question the logical decision making ability of people who think that.
I half wouldn't mind people having guns if everyone was as reasonable and responsible as you seem to be. Sadly, that's far from being the case.

Also I still think that in most cases you would not have an opportunity to use one really efficiently (particularly outside your home). Mostly, either the guy(s) who attack you also has a gun and it is already pointed at you and you can't do anything, or he doesn't have a gun but then you can't use yours because it would not be self defense proportionate to the attack anymore. Examples:
- guy comes out of a side street with a gun pointed at your head and demands your money and your car keys. Can't use your gun.
- guy walks up to you with his hands in his jacket pockets and demands your money. Do you want to take the chance that he is not aiming at you through his pocket and try to draw out?
- guy jumps on you from behind and starts punching you. You're now in a fist fight with him and there is a gun in the middle of the fist fight. Is this a positive? If you have a chance to draw out and shoot him, can you answer a punch with a bullet?

Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
I cant tell if spoon is legit trying to argue with davendem, or if hes just trolling.
I don't know if spoon is trolling or not. He has not yet said that the only thing that can stop a bad student with a gun is a good teacher with a gun, or that Japan would invade America if he surrendered his weapon.