**** Elections thread *****

[BananaStand]

I thought I read that it bans American citizens from returning home from those countries during this period.
Clear injustice to suspend "innocent until proven guilty" on American citizens.

I'm certain that colleges and universities are going ballistic over the fact that students and professors who are on legit visas are being denied access to return to their school / work.
I don't know if "injustice" is the right word, but it seems like we have accurately vetted plenty of people from those countries already, and denying them entry to the USA seems overboard.

The bolded does not compute. Last I heard, at least half of the people in limbo have been granted waivers, and by tomorrow, I'll bet there won't be anyone being held at an airport who has a right to be here. This wasn't a surprise order. People have known what's up since November. They travelled anyway, because.....I don't know. Maybe they're spoiled idiots who think that rules don't apply to them. All I see is a bunch of whiners who say "but I'm not a terrorist....this shouldn't happen to me!!"

I mean, since 9/11 we americans have given up some of our convenience and privacy in order to feel safe on an airplane. Most people suck it up. But every once in a while you see that dumb bitch in the security line who doesn't understand why her liquids have to be in 3oz containers. Or how about that lady who got pulled off an Alaska Air flight for her anti-trump rant a week or so ago. "But I'm going home for a funeral, you can't pull me off the plane".

When I look at the protests on TV, all the signs and chants are saying "muslims & refugees welcome". I don't think its accurate to assume that there wouldn't be this outrage if the order allowed people with green cards and visas, but still banned refugees. That's why I say the outrage here is manufactured. It's just people who hate trump looking for an excuse to hate trump.

[MadMojoMonkey]

The bolded does not compute.

Denying Americans due process of law is injustice, by violation of American's rights under American law. Those rights under American law do not change based on where your body is at any given moment, as is clearly stated in the laws.
I prevaricated, because I thought I read that, but can't find the source.

The other point starts with "IDK," so I can't suss what doesn't compute about it.

I thought this came out relatively quickly, but if there was a few months warning that this was coming, then I do place responsibility on the people who left the USA, knowing they my have a difficult and prolonged reentry process.

That's why I say the outrage here is manufactured. It's just people who hate trump looking for an excuse to hate trump.

I have no outrage.
I have no hate for Trump.
What did I ever say to give you these impressions?

***
I hope I'm wrong, but this seems like the classic example of why there is such vitriol on all sides. You're ascribing emotions and ideologies to me which I do not espouse and have not expressed.
You did it earlier, too, when you expressed that I had chosen a political side and was spouting that side's rhetoric.
I'd like to be clear that I do not blindly repeat talking points. I side with liberals on many issues and with conservatives on many issues. I do not consider myself to be either liberal or conservative until you tell me the issue upon which you want my political opinion.

I do not feel that either political party describes my political thoughts. I think the left and the right both make excellent points and that if either side were ceded full control of things, it would all work out fine... quite differently, but fine in both cases. I do not embrace the notion that people who disagree with me are bad people, or stupid, or evil, etc. I believe that intelligent people on both sides have a world view that is consistent, and that they could make their vision work.

[BananaStand]

Denying Americans due process of law is injustice, by violation of American's rights under American law. Those rights under American law do not change based on where your body is at any given moment, as is clearly stated in the laws.

I'm not sure it's a "right" to be allowed unfettered international travel. And I don't think anyone is being denied due process. The process is, come back in 3 months.

I hope I'm wrong, but this seems like the classic example of why there is such vitriol on all sides. You're ascribing emotions and ideologies to me which I do not espouse and have not expressed.
You did it earlier, too, when you expressed that I had chosen a political side and was spouting that side's rhetoric.

C'mon man, the quote form me that you used there conveniently dropped the opening sentence to the paragraph where I stated "when I see people on TV....". If your'e taking that personally, maybe you should turn down the sensitivity knob.

In regards to your earlier comment, it was my interpretation that you think that a low, non-zero, number of american casualties is acceptable, or at least, not that big of a deal. I merely pointed out that alot of people, including Obama, agree with you. I think there is one side that differentiates between a nuclear armed N. Korea and a Jihadi operative detonating a bomb on an NYC subway. And on the other side, they believe that terrorism is an equally urgent threat. Just because I used your sentiment as a jumping off point to discuss the political landscape as a whole, doesn't mean I'm impugning you personally.

I apologize if I've offended, but please understand that very few, if any, of my comments were directed at you specifically.

I'd like to be clear that I do not blindly repeat talking points. I side with liberals on many issues and with conservatives on many issues. I do not consider myself to be either liberal or conservative until you tell me the issue upon which you want my political opinion.

High-five dude! I feel the same way. I'm a pro-choice, pro gun control, atheist but have almost always pulled the lever for a republican. I'm all over the map too. Kinda sucks that common sense doesn't have it's own political party.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm not sure it's a "right" to be allowed unfettered international travel. And I don't think anyone is being denied due process. The process is, come back in 3 months.

It is a right to be considered and treated as innocent until proven guilty.

As I understand, due process involves, among other steps, trial by a jury of your peers. It is well-defined in that sense, even if "peers" is contentious sometimes.