**** Elections thread *****

[BananaStand]

Hate to rebut so many words with just one word, but: Yes. I don't know what sounds so far-fetched about someone going through a lot of trouble to consolidate and expand their money and power. As dry and caustic as your tone is in regards to this, it is raison d'etre of a significant number of people, both through history and contemporarily. I doubt Trump himself would dispute that a lot of his life has been dedicated toward acquiring more money and expanding his brand.

So what was his motivation in business, must also be his motivation in politics? Want fewer words to rebut? Here's just one: Glib. And it's glib to an extreme. It's akin to saying if I try to take your money at the poker table, we can't also be friends. It's possible for someone to be motivated by more than just one thing. And it's possible to call on those different motivations, at different times in your life, to achieve different goals.

Think about what would happen to you if you tried this same line of thinking in poker. "hey that guy just bet, and it was a bluff. So now every time he bets, I'm gonna call, cause its probably a bluff. Occam says so"

I don't think he cares much about exploiting the government to make more money.

Think about what you're saying here. You are saying that the man is motivated by greed, and doesn't care that he would be undermining democracy and tearing the fabric of society, just to make a few more bucks. That is a serious and vile accusation to be making. You are indicting the man's motivations as purely selfish, and largely evil since you so clearly believe that he has an inhuman and callous disregard for every other citizen in the country.

And just because you can't categorically disprove that.....you won't even entertain the notion that perhaps he's simply a driven patriot?

This is the guy who proudly said not paying taxes makes him smart (not that I disagree with him not paying taxes if he were carrying over a loss, but it's relevant to this point regardless), who has exploited many other small businesses' services, involved in pump and dump schemes, etc.

Invoking these things might make me sound like some libtard buying into HuffPo clickbait headlines or something, but there was a time like 18 months ago when you could say that Trump is a money and ego-motivated solipsistic billionaire and no one would think twice about it, much less accuse you of being politically biased and divisive.

LOL, this is the thinking that needs to go. No one is accusing you of being politically biased or divisive. there's plenty of that on both sides. The tax thing is a great example. The guy took deductions that were on the books, lawfully. Zeroing in on the phrasing of "didn't pay taxes", is biased, and divisive.

But what you're saying (that he's motivated solely by greed), goes beyond biased and divisive. It's incendiary, accusatory, and inflammatory.

And the way you are presenting and supporting your argument....

My post had nothing at all to do with knowing anything for sure. I said it's getting easier and easier to support one particular narrative and harder and harder to support other ones.

.... is infantile, glib, and frankly an extremely lazy line of thinking.

It's entirely possible some other possibility is true; I hope to god that they are. I'm just increasingly losing hope in other common explanations.

I wasn't using Occam's Razor as evidence. You're getting all upset about people talking down to and talking past other people, yet you're using the least generous interpretation of my point possible.

I don't at all think "the only logical conclusion" is that Trump's motivations are like Brain's from Pinky and the Brain. I'm saying as much as that--on its surface--sounds like a melodramatic and far-fetched theory, it's increasingly becoming the least far-fetched theory.

Again...lazy thinking. If it's "entirely possible" that something else is true, then why are you so insistent that yours (and apparently Occam's) conclusion is true? Why is yours "least far fetched theory?"

You'd be a fool to suggest that blatant personal ambition was not a driving force for the ascension of all 44 of our previous presidents. Why does the narrative change to 'maniacal material greed' now that it's Trump? Occam's razor would say that whoever is giving the narrative must have some extreme bias.

The sections you quoted both exclusively had to do with Trump. They had nothing at all to do with Republicans, Trump supporters, or whoever else you think is being oppressed here other than Trump himself. Neither section had even the faintest implications whatsoever of accusing anyone of being racist, misogynist, or nationalist pigs.

You could say that there is a potential implication of his supporters being idiots, but I think you have to have a pretty severe victim complex if you can't read a criticism of a political figure without immediately taking it as an implicit attack on all of his supporters.

It's possible I was making two points in one post. I agree, your words had to do exclusively with Trump. But even you sniffed out your own implication.

My separate point was that discourse in a tone similar to the one you and Bill have given in this thread, was a major driving factor in the election of Trump. You can hide behind the literal textual interpretation of your point if you want. I won't dispute it. But you are clearly exhibiting a common and repetitive pattern that has been present throughout the last year and a half of political discussion. And that is to jump to outrageous conclusions based on nothing but unproveable plausibility. Trump didn't disavow david duke fast enough, he must love the KKK. Trump said something nice about Putin, he must be working with Russia. Trump said something mean about those gold star parents...he must hate muslims.

I'm just letting you know, that kind of shit is tiring. I'm not saying you said that stuff. I am saying that your line of "trump just wants to be prez so he can sell more condos" is incredibly similar to all that other garbage. And I'm just letting you know, so that you can start being part of the solution, and not part of the problem.