**** Elections thread *****

[OngBonga]

(I obviously have no gay friends)

That you know of...

Same here, if we're talking about men. I do have female friends who are lesbians, though. And I have had male gay friends in the past.

Homosexuality is not a problem to me. Neither is the word faggot.

[BananaStand]

Warning, this racist, homophobic diatribe is about to turn sexist too.

If you've ever been in a relationship with a woman, then you KNOW what it's like to say or do something, with totally benevolent, or at least non-malicious intent, and yet still end up with a hurt, offended, blubbering whine bag on your hands.

Feelings don't have to be logical. You don't get to choose how someone perceives or reacts to what you do and say. If you say the n word, I know that a hell of a lot of black people will be offended by it, regardless of how 'logical' you think your context is. You don't get to thump your chest and accuse the listener of not being smart enough to understand your intent. They are entitled to their feelings, and you can choose to be sensitive to them, or not.

Personally, I choose to be sensitive to it, thus I use the term 'n word'. I am choosing to be sensitive to potential misinterpretation by presenting the word in a way that acknowledges it's existence, but pre-emptively removes any offensive connotation. Those hard g's just sound mean.

In regards to Louis CK, and his coffee joke, I think that does impugn his character. Just because he thought of something funny, doesn't mean he's obligated to perform it. He doesn't need that joke.

[OngBonga]

Tonnes, but I don't see your point. If people wanted to put some context on words and phrases I use that'd be fine.

The point is that we must use loads of words all the time that can be presented as offensive to someone. I couldn't give a fuck about that, I only care about the context. I ask "what does the person mean when he says a word, and why is he saying it?", rather than "what did that word mean 100 years ago, and why doesn't he know the historical context?".

[OngBonga]

If you've ever been in a relationship with a woman, then you KNOW what it's like to say or do something, with totally benevolent, or at least non-malicious intent, and yet still end up with a hurt, offended, blubbering whine bag on your hands.

Not all women are blubbering whine bags. I haven't had many relationships, but none of my girlfriends fall into the category of "blubbering whine bag".

I am sexist though. I much prefer the company of women to men. I don't like men all that much, I think the world would be tons better if there were two women for every man.

[OngBonga]

Which, I'll add, makes it all the more surprising I supported Trump over Clinton. I guess I hate corrupt peedos more than I hate testosterone-fueled men.

[BananaStand]

Not all women are blubbering whine bags. I haven't had many relationships, but none of my girlfriends fall into the category of "blubbering whine bag".

You clearly missed the point. I didn't say all women are blubbering whine bags. What I did say is that all women are prone to misinterpreting the intentions of a man's actions, taking it personally, and making the man fucking miserable for it, at least once during a relationship.

[OngBonga]

What I did say is that all women are prone to misinterpreting the intentions of a man's actions, taking it personally, and making the man fucking miserable for it, at least once during a relationship.

I do find it amusing that you refuse to say nigger or faggot, yet you can generalise women in such a way.

All people are prone to misinterpreting someone else's actions, and making the other fucking miserable for it. This is not exclusive to gender, or indeed straight reltionships. It's human nature, not female nature.

[Savy]

Saying n-word rather than nigger whilst having a discussion about the use of the word is kind of why this type of censorship is mental.

The point is that we must use loads of words all the time that can be presented as offensive to someone. I couldn't give a fuck about that, I only care about the context. I ask "what does the person mean when he says a word, and why is he saying it?", rather than "what did that word mean 100 years ago, and why doesn't he know the historical context?".

The point was that it explains why it is a word used by people who hate people for being gay. If someone pointed out to me that a word I use in a given context is actually quite nasty I'd probably think about my use of the word and whether or not it is needed. Words and their meanings change all the time, as do symbols and what they mean. There is also a huge difference in the atmosphere between friends and the general public.

Once again I'm not saying you shouldn't use any word.

I do find it amusing that you refuse to say nigger or faggot, yet you can generalise women in such a way.

This completely. Especially when all men will have done the exact same thing in relationships.

[BananaStand]

I do find it amusing that you refuse to say nigger or faggot, yet you can generalise women in such a way.

They know what they do.

All people are prone to misinterpreting someone else's actions, and making the other fucking miserable for it. This is not exclusive to gender, or indeed straight reltionships. It's human nature, not female nature.

Exactly, so why not be a human, and treat everybody the way you'd want to be treated. If you know your words have an enormous potential to cause offense, and you can choose your phrasing differently, why not do so?

Not doing so, makes you an ass hole. And if that's the case, just keep it up. Eventually there won't be anyone in your life to offend, and your problems will be solved

[Savy]

Do you hate all women or make an exception for the black and gay ones?

[CoccoBill]

Warning, this racist, homophobic diatribe is about to turn sexist too.

If you've ever been in a relationship with a woman, then you KNOW what it's like to say or do something, with totally benevolent, or at least non-malicious intent, and yet still end up with a hurt, offended, blubbering whine bag on your hands.

Feelings don't have to be logical. You don't get to choose how someone perceives or reacts to what you do and say. If you say the n word, I know that a hell of a lot of black people will be offended by it, regardless of how 'logical' you think your context is. You don't get to thump your chest and accuse the listener of not being smart enough to understand your intent. They are entitled to their feelings, and you can choose to be sensitive to them, or not.

Personally, I choose to be sensitive to it, thus I use the term 'n word'. I am choosing to be sensitive to potential misinterpretation by presenting the word in a way that acknowledges it's existence, but pre-emptively removes any offensive connotation. Those hard g's just sound mean.

You do realize you feel exactly the same about the actual issue as us, you just choose to take the easy way out and adhere to societal norms, right?

Well so do I, even though exactly like ong described, I've used the n- and f-words to my white hetero friends numerous times. I like to think of myself, and try to be, completely for equality be it race, sex, sexual orientation, nationality or whatever. I truly believe all humans are fundamentally equal, they should only be judged by their actions. I have a deep disgust for all kinds of segregation and discrimination. However, none of that changes, or is in conflict with, that there's nothing that shouldn't be joked about.

[BananaStand]

Do you hate all women or make an exception for the black and gay ones?

Hookers are ok.

[OngBonga]

Not doing so, makes you an ass hole.

In your opinion. Honestly, in my opinion, someone who takes offense where none was intended is an asshole. Also, moral crusaders who think they can tell other people what words they can and cannot say are assholes, especially those who apply different rules to different people based on race.

And if that's the case, just keep it up. Eventually there won't be anyone in your life to offend, and your problems will be solved

You're assuming here I go around my daily life saying nigger this and faggot that. I don't. I'm having an internet discussion here with people who, quite frankly, I couldn't give a fuck if I offend. In my actual day to day life, I do care about offending people, certainly my friends. That said, I'm also excellent at picking my friends, I don't tend to stay friends with people who are addicted to being offended. I can't be doing with moral snobbery.

[OngBonga]

The point was that it explains why it is a word used by people who hate people for being gay. If someone pointed out to me that a word I use in a given context is actually quite nasty I'd probably think about my use of the word and whether or not it is needed.

I do agree with you here. But I'll bet that the vast majority of homosexual men themselves do not know why the word "faggot" is used to describe their sexual preference. I didn't really need to know what the word meant 100 years ago or whatever to not use the word as a direct insult to a gay man. Then again, I don't tend to use any word to insult gay men. I might use words to describe gay men, but it's never intended as an insult. I use the word "bummer" all the time, even directly to gay men, for example JKDS. Does he take offence? I hope not, but neither do I care. He is a bummer, because bummer means homosexual in the context I'm using the word. It's not an insult because I don't have a problem with it at all, and I don't think less of JKDS for being gay.

[BananaStand]

In your opinion. Honestly, in my opinion, someone who takes offense where none was intended is an asshole

You've got it backwards. The way you're talking, it's as if the word is neutral, and any offense you cause by saying it is merely accidental.

It's 2017, the overwhelming majority of the black population has declared the word categorically offensive. As an informed person, you know this. So saying it, with that knowledge, automatically makes it offensive. I mean, if you ever become an actor, and get cast in a movie as Robert E. Lee, then you'll probably get a pass. But other than that, saying the word, in any context, when you KNOW how offensive it is to so very many people, is just trollish.

[OngBonga]

It's 2017, the overwhelming majority of the black population has declared the word categorically offensive.

No. Black people are offended by racism, and are then tricked into thinking that any use of the word by a non-black person is racist.

Well I too am offended by racism, only I think it's racist to say black people can use a word that white people can't.

[Poopadoop]

Meanings and connotations of words are agreed on by committee. So if society agrees that a word has a particular meaning, a particular connotation, and that these both depend on context, then that's the way it is. You can disagree with it or not care about it, but it's not your call to decide whether a word is offensive or not to other people.

So if you call a random gay person 'faggot' or a random black person 'nigger' in today's society and they get offended, you're the asshole, not them, because you understood the word was highly likely to be offensive to them and you used it anyways. By the very fact of using the word, with full awareness of its meaning and connotation, you've intended to be offensive. You can't switch the responsibility on the listener for not understanding that you're not an asshole, you're just ignorant for thinking they shouldn't be offended by your being offensive.

If you call your friend one of those words, and the two of you agree it's inoffensive in that context, then you're not an asshole.

You can also not be an asshole if you use a word without knowing it has a negative connotation. But if the listener is offended by that word, that doesn't make them an asshole either. It's just a misunderstanding.

[OngBonga]

Asshole is a non-binary term. Just because you think someone is an asshole, doesn't mean everyone has to consider that person an asshole. Likewise, someone you think isn't an asshole, I might have a different opinion of.

The idea that someone is or isn't an asshole is dumb. We're all assholes, and none of us are assholes. Depends who you're asking.

[OngBonga]

but it's not your call to decide whether a word is offensive or not to other people.

It's my call to decide if I find the word offensive. It's also my call to consider someone who offends easily an asshole.

[CoccoBill]

Which other words do you think should be banned?

[Poopadoop]

No. Black people are offended by racism, and are then tricked into thinking that any use of the word by a non-black person is racist.

It's not a trick. It's a social convention that if a white person calls a black person 'nigger' they're insulting them based on their race.

Well I too am offended by racism, only I think it's racist to say black people can use a word that white people can't.

That's fine, but you're in the minority on that one. Moreover, regardless of the irony of words having different connotations depending on the color of person using them, the convention still exists. You can disagree with it but that doesn't make other people responsible if you use a word in a way that society has agreed is offensive.

[Poopadoop]

Asshole is a non-binary term. Just because you think someone is an asshole, doesn't mean everyone has to consider that person an asshole. Likewise, someone you think isn't an asshole, I might have a different opinion of.

The idea that someone is or isn't an asshole is dumb. We're all assholes, and none of us are assholes. Depends who you're asking.

Great. But that really has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Try replacing the word asshole with 'someone behaving in an offensive way', if you prefer.

[Poopadoop]

It's my call to decide if I find the word offensive. It's also my call to consider someone who offends easily an asshole.

It's your call to decide if it's offensive when it's directed at you. That's why your friend can call you 'nigger' and you don't get upset by it.

It's not your call to decide on the convention of the word's usage in a broader context. So yes, you're an asshole if you consider someone who gets offended when you use a word in a way that's been agreed to be offensive in a particular context the one who's in the wrong.

[BananaStand]

Which other words do you think should be banned?

Is this a serious question? If so, you might be surprised to realize how loaded with sexism the word "bossy" is.

That's one that can go.

[OngBonga]

It's not a trick. It's a social convention that if a white person calls a black person 'nigger' they're insulting them based on their race.

Not necessarily. What if I call a black person "my nigger"? That's basically saying "my friend", thus not intended as an insult.

That's fine, but you're in the minority on that one.

Sadly you're right here. Which, incidentally, is one reason why racism is nowhere near being eradicated.

[OngBonga]

Is this a serious question? If so, you might be surprised to realize how loaded with sexism the word "bossy" is.

That's one that can go.

"whine bag" when referencing women who complain?

[BananaStand]

Not necessarily. What if I call a black person "my nigger"? That's basically saying "my friend", thus not intended as an insult.

Snoop Dogg has declared his desire for white people to stop saying "for shizzle my nizzle". He emphasized that "nizzle does not mean neighbor!"

Sadly you're right here. Which, incidentally, is one reason why racism is nowhere near being eradicated.

So you think racism would be solved if white people could say n....?

[Poopadoop]

Not necessarily. What if I call a black person "my nigger"? That's basically saying "my friend", thus not intended as an insult.

See above. If you and he agree the word is not offensive in that context, then it's not offensive.

[OngBonga]

So you think racism would be solved if white people could say n....?

No. I think we're getting there when black and white people are treated as equals.

[CoccoBill]

Is this a serious question? If so, you might be surprised to realize how loaded with sexism the word "bossy" is.

That's one that can go.

So you're fine with for example all of these?

http://www.rsdb.org/

I'm just interested in your criteria for labeling people for the usage of a certain word, regardless of context.

[OngBonga]

If we insist that the word "nigger" is racist, then nobody should not use that word, regardless of their colour.

When we say it's racist for white people to say it, but not black people, that there is institutionalised racism in society, which is a much bigger problem.

[Poopadoop]

Sadly you're right here. Which, incidentally, is one reason why racism is nowhere near being eradicated.

Ideally no such thing would exist as a word that has a different meaning based on the colour of the person using it. But I think there's a meaningful difference between acknowledging cultural differences and being racist in the negativey discriminatey sense of the word.

[BananaStand]

So you're fine with for example all of these?

http://www.rsdb.org/

I'm just interested in your criteria for labeling people for the usage of a certain word, regardless of context.

Why would I be fine with those? I'm not sure I understand your question

[OngBonga]

lol afro-saxon, a white person who acts black.

We use the word "wigger" for that purpose. How does that one rate in the list of offensive words?

[OngBonga]

Ideally no such thing would exist as a word that has a different meaning based on the colour of the person using it. But I think there's a meaningful difference between acknowledging cultural differences and being racist in the negativey discriminatey sense of the word.

This isn't about acknowledging cultural differences. This is about one rule for black people, another for white people. The rules should be the same across the board.

[Poopadoop]

Well, we could turn that argument around. Black people may not want to be 'equal' to white people in all ways. Maybe that's why they make up their own meanings for words. So by forcing them to assimilate you're the one being racist.

[CoccoBill]

Why would I be fine with those? I'm not sure I understand your question

My point is that if we start banning words based on their possible offensiveness to someone, we're soon not going to be able to talk at all, since humans are quite talented at getting offended for little or no reason. Poop's Committee for Insensitive Words is going to be working round the clock.

Every sane person realizes that calling a person with a known pejorative term is not cool. Using that same term in other contexts is not remotely the same thing. If I say "I abhor the use of the word nigger", am I being racist?

[Poopadoop]

This is about one rule for black people, another for white people. The rules should be the same across the board.

It's not a rule, it's a convention. There's a difference.

A rule is something imposed from above. A convention is something that arises on its own through being agreed on by most people.

[Poopadoop]

If I say "I abhor the use of the word nigger", am I being racist?

Ban.

[BananaStand]

This isn't about acknowledging cultural differences. This is about one rule for black people, another for white people. The rules should be the same across the board.

That is really petty you know.

It's like when you have a kid brother who's a real fucking jerk, and you are not shy about telling him what a jerk he is. And maybe you tell your friends what a jerk your kid brother is. But when someone else comes along and calls your kid brother a jerk....you stick up for him.

Sometimes it's ok for something to go on within a certain culture but still be considered offensive when committed by someone outside that culture.

[BananaStand]

My point is that if we start banning words based on their possible offensiveness to someone, we're soon not going to be able to talk at all, since humans are quite talented at getting offended for little or no reason. Poop's Committee for Insensitive Words is going to be working round the clock.

Every sane person realizes that calling a person with a known pejorative term is not cool. Using that same term in other contexts is not remotely the same thing. If I say "I abhor the use of the word nigger", am I being racist?

Well you're at least being disingenuous. Like Ron Burgundy "I would never say fuck! Don't you fucking know I would never fucking say that!"

If you really abhor the n-word, you'd say "I abhor the n-word".

and the only reason I brought up "bossy" is not really because of how it's mostly directed at women, but more because it's mostly directed at very young women, adolescents, or children. The way that word is used, I believe, indoctrinates children into a sexist culture they haven't chosen for themselves.

If grown up men call grown up women bossy....that doesn't really bother me. Bitch was probably being bossy.

[OngBonga]

Well, we could turn that argument around. Black people may not want to be 'equal' to white people in all ways. Maybe that's why they make up their own meanings for words. So by forcing them to assimilate you're the one being racist.

Well if they don't want to be equal, then they don't have a problem with racism.

[BananaStand]

Well if they don't want to be equal, then they don't have a problem with racism.

jesus man.

Out of curiosity, what other factors do you think contribute to the racial divide? Is it really just an inconsistent application of outrage over the n-word? What else do you think drives racism?

[OngBonga]

I abhor the I-word.

I cannot say the word, suffice to say is one of the words the Knights of Ni! cannot hear.

[OngBonga]

jesus man.

Out of curiosity, what other factors do you think contribute to the racial divide? Is it really just an inconsistent application of outrage over the n-word? What else do you think drives racism?

No, the use of the word we cannot say because we are white is merely an example of how we are not treated as equals in society. There are tons more examples.

For example... here in the UK, we have the Black Police Officer's Association... as you'd expect, a group of people whose agenda is to represent the interests of black police officers.

Of course, what happens if we decide to have a White Police Officer's Association? Accusations of racism.

[Poopadoop]

Well if they don't want to be equal, then they don't have a problem with racism.

Also ban. Assuming complete lack of logic is banworthy that is.

[OngBonga]

Also ban. Assuming complete lack of logic is banworthy that is.

I have the ban hammer, you don't.

Wind your neck in.

[BananaStand]

No, the use of the word we cannot say because we are white is merely an example of how we are not treated as equals in society. There are tons more examples.

I'll make a deal with you. When those tons of other examples are remedied, I'll be the first one to stand beside you on your crusade to de-stigma-fy the n word.

I wanna sing along to rap albums too.

[Poopadoop]

If you really abhor the n-word, you'd say "I abhor the n-word".

Hating a word doesn't mean you'd rather curl up and die than type it or say it. At least not to everyone.

[OngBonga]

I wanna sing along to rap albums too.

I'm in the process of writing a hip-hop album, but I'm struggling to find a word that rhymes with "N-word" that means "larger than". Any suggestions?

[Poopadoop]

I have the ban hammer, you don't.

Wind your neck in.

Don't worry guys, it's just English-speak for 'I know you're right.'

[OngBonga]

Also ban. Assuming complete lack of logic is banworthy that is.

And this of course is English for "ong you're awesome, don't ever stop talking shit".

[BananaStand]

I'm in the process of writing a hip-hop album, but I'm struggling to find a word that rhymes with "N-word" that means "larger than". Any suggestions?

I told wuf yesterday, you can substitute the word "fella" and it works fine in every instance.

As the sun rotates and my game grows bigga
how many bitches wanna fuck this fella named Snoop
doggy, I'm all the above
I'm too swift on my toes
to get caught up wit you hoes

See....don't miss a beat.

[Poopadoop]

And this of course is English for "ong you're awesome, don't ever stop talking shit".

It absolutely is.

And I mean that in the most English way possible.

[Poopadoop]

I told wuf yesterday, you can substitute the word "fella" and it works fine in every instance.

As the sun rotates and my game grows bigga
how many bitches wanna fuck this fella named Snoop
doggy, I'm all the above
I'm too swift on my toes
to get caught up wit you hoes

See....don't miss a beat.

Lol, this is classic PC-gone-too-far-ness.

[OngBonga]

It absolutely is.

And I mean that in the most English way possible.

Touche. And by that I mean you're an idiot.

[BananaStand]

Lol, this is classic PC-gone-too-far-ness.

Actually, most black people would consider me a terrible racist if they knew what I felt were the underlying causes of racial inequality.

Eliminating the n word and cleaning up my rap act seems like a small concession.

[Poopadoop]

Banana, how do you reconcile your extreme anti-racist perspective with your support of Trump? I would have expected your head to explode a long time ago.

[Poopadoop]

Touche. And by that I mean you're an idiot.

Aw, you're just being nice.

[OngBonga]

The problem with the word "fellow" is that it means a member of a learned society, and also means man.

It's sexist and classist.

Find a better word.

[Poopadoop]

Actually, most black people would consider me a terrible racist if they knew what I felt were the underlying causes of racial inequality.

Please, go on...

[CoccoBill]

Well you're at least being disingenuous. Like Ron Burgundy "I would never say fuck! Don't you fucking know I would never fucking say that!"

If you really abhor the n-word, you'd say "I abhor the n-word".

You didn't answer the question. I said the word, am I racist, or just an asshole?

and the only reason I brought up "bossy" is not really because of how it's mostly directed at women, but more because it's mostly directed at very young women, adolescents, or children. The way that word is used, I believe, indoctrinates children into a sexist culture they haven't chosen for themselves.

If grown up men call grown up women bossy....that doesn't really bother me. Bitch was probably being bossy.

Kind of like I've been saying from the beginning, people should use consideration about what they say.

[CoccoBill]

Banana, how do you reconcile your extreme anti-racist perspective with your support of Trump? I would have expected your head to explode a long time ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognit...nance#Reducing

[BananaStand]

Please, go on...

Well, black people are 13% of the american population. However, they are responsible for 50% of the murders and robberies in this country. These stats are not hard to find. US Census and the FBI.

Why do black people commit such a disproportionate number of crimes? I guess we could debate that, but let's not. Any freshman sociology student will tell you that the most overwhelming precipitator of crime, is poverty. It's not that black people are criminals, they just live in poverty in far greater proportions than whites. And poverty leads to crime.

So, why are black people so poor? The predominant narrative is that black people are poor because white people have the power, and are racist, and thus hold black people down with a biased justice system, and unfair hiring practices. Personally, I reject that predominant narrative.

Again, I look strictly at the numbers. If you really want a link I can try to find it, but these stats were cited by Bernard Goldberg, who's about as far from "fake news" as you can get. So, I trust these stats.

Of the people in america, living above poverty, 90% of them share these three common traits regardless of race, demographics, economics, or geography. 1) They finished high school. 2) They had their first child after the age of 21. 3) They did not have children out of wedlock.

Those seem like really easy things to accomplish, especially when you consider that the reward is a 90% chance of lifetime prosperity.

On the other hand, of the population that lives below poverty, 90% have failed to meet at least one of those three criteria.

So why are black people poor? It has to do with high school drop out rates, teenage pregnancies, and deadbeat fathers. The high school drop out rate among african americans is about 1 in 12 nationwide. But in urban areas like chicago and other inner cities, it's over 50%. The nationwide out-of-wedlock birth rate among african americans is over 70%.

As long as that trend continues, black people are fucked. And white people can't help them.

They glorify their entertainers and celebrities, a vast majority of which espouse a "thug" image. Former crack dealer Jay-Z and his wife who's hit single is about fucking in the backseat of cars, were prominent guests at the white house. That's more than just a bad look. It's appalling when you consider the problems of crime and teenage pregnancy faced by black communities.

Meanwhile their so-called leaders are destroying initiative by telling their constituents that the system is rigged against them. They remain indifferent to gang violence while applauding those kneel for the national anthem and smear cops.

So that's my take. As long as schools are open and its legal to buy condoms, I really don't have a lot of empathy for the black cause. I'll do my part by not saying the n-word. Other than that, they need to get their own shit together.

[BananaStand]

Banana, how do you reconcile your extreme anti-racist perspective with your support of Trump? I would have expected your head to explode a long time ago.

Eliminating one word from my vocabulary because it's widely known to be overwhelmingly pejorative doesn't exactly sound like an 'extreme anti-racist perspective'. I kinda just think of it as being a nice guy.

The best thing that can happen to black people is for the economy to create jobs. That's pretty much Trump's agenda.

[CoccoBill]

So you think the underlying reasons for inequality experienced by blacks is because they drop out of school, have kids young and out of wedlock, not some systemic racism built into the system which you dismiss without any explanation? And you think using the n-word makes a person racist? You have some balls mate.

[BananaStand]

So you think the underlying reasons for inequality experienced by blacks is because they drop out of school, have kids young and out of wedlock,

For sure. Solve those problems, and see how black people prosper.

not some systemic racism built into the system which you dismiss without any explanation?

Dude, we had a black president, and two black attorney generals running the "system". Black people went backwards. It's not the system.

And you think using the n-word makes a person racist? You have some balls mate.

using the word is a deliberate and informed declaration of prejudice. What other criteria would you suggest we use to identify racism.

[CoccoBill]

What you're saying is that it's their inherent qualities that cause their problems. How would you describe racism?

[BananaStand]

What you're saying is that it's their inherent qualities that cause their problems. How would you describe racism?

When you say "inherent qualities" it sounds like you're suggesting that they can't help themselves. Like they are genetically, or at least culturally, pre-disposed to crime. I would describe that as racist thinking.

I see black people as victims of their own culture. At least in my mind, that's a little bit different.

But as I said earlier, it would not surprise me if someone looks at my line of thinking and calls it "racist". And if that ends up being the communally accepted definition of racism. Then, I'm a racist.

[OngBonga]

I don't think banana is racist. I don't think he's wrong in his analysis either, although I do think he's wrong when he rejects what he calls the "predominant narrative". I think that there are plenty of reasons why white people prosper more than black people; some are cultural, some are prejudices.

[BananaStand]

What you're saying is that it's their inherent qualities that cause their problems. How would you describe racism?

If I were to give the same argument backwards in regards to asians....would that also be racist?

Asian people have extremely low out of wedlock birth and school drop out rates relative to their proportion of the population.

Is it racist to cite a strong family unit as an underlying cause of Asians' prosperity? If not, then doesn't it follow that a weakened family structure might be the underlying cause of another group's lack of prosperity?

[CoccoBill]

When you say "inherent qualities" it sounds like you're suggesting that they can't help themselves. Like they are genetically, or at least culturally, pre-disposed to crime. I would describe that as racist thinking.

I see black people as victims of their own culture. At least in my mind, that's a little bit different.

So saying they're culturally disposed to crime would be racist, but saying they're just victims of said culture isn't?

But as I said earlier, it would not surprise me if someone looks at my line of thinking and calls it "racist". And if that ends up being the communally accepted definition of racism. Then, I'm a racist.

What I find interesting is that you find the n-word to be a serious issue, but are completely ok being labeled a racist due to your thoughts.

[BananaStand]

What I find interesting is that you find the n-word to be a serious issue, .

Clearly you've misunderstood me. Not saying the n-word is merely common sense.

What I have a serious issue with is ignorance. Like someone saying "but Dr Dre says it, why can't I?"

[CoccoBill]

If I were to give the same argument backwards in regards to asians....would that also be racist?

Asian people have extremely low out of wedlock birth and school drop out rates relative to their proportion of the population.

Is it racist to cite a strong family unit as an underlying cause of Asians' prosperity? If not, then doesn't it follow that a weakened family structure might be the underlying cause of another group's lack of prosperity?

Citing statistics, if they're accurate, is neutral by default, but can of course also be done in a discriminatory way. The race in question makes absolutely no difference, at least to me.

[CoccoBill]

Clearly you've misunderstood me. Not saying the n-word is merely common sense.

What I have a serious issue with is ignorance. Like someone saying "but Dr Dre says it, why can't I?"

That's of course possible, but deeming someone an asshole just because they use a word in any context would qualify as a serious issue in my book.