**** Elections thread *****

[BananaStand]

We already agreed Mr. Ball is a dick. What's your point?

My point is that none of this would have happened if Mr Ball wasn't a dick. So it's a little dubious when people like you point the finger at Trump for being petty. He's seizing an opportunity. Ball gave him that opportunity.

If CNN or any other news media says 'wow the president finally did something right', then yea i guess on some level that's impressive.

Ok, so we agree then. Now the only question is this "impressive" outcome the result of Trump's actions, or just a case of him luckboxing into some positive spin? I kinda think it's the former.

Not what I said at all. But it isn't uncommon for a president to intercede on behalf of his citizens in another country. You act like it's never happened before

Of course it's happened before. You act like it's always had a 100% success rate.

Yes, of course those kids deserve to rot in jail for 10 years for shoplifting. And the president getting them released is the diplomatic coup of the century that no other president except all of them have ever pulled off before.

Before 9/11 the first publicized challenge of GWB's presidency was getting some captured pilots out of China. He succeeded, and was widely praised. Deservedly so. Just like Trump deserves credit for what he did. I agree with you that it's a relatively small accomplishment, and certainly not the first of its kind. However, the more it's talked about....the bigger and more important it becomes. And people are talking about it. And they're talking about it because the president tweeted.

You're saying that's all by accident. Trump is just "lucky" that the news is favorable for him this week? Cmon man...

Lol, if there's anyone left in the middle in America, they certainly aren't thinking 'wow thank god we have a president who can have a twitter war with some mental case on the internet.'

Pay attention dude. That's NOT the headline those people are seeing. The headline they are seeing is "Trump wins in China", and that probably DOES resonate with them.

Is he? Because most busy men in very important jobs are spending their time thinking about their jobs on a plane, lying in bed, etc., not sending tweets to some random jerk.

I get it, you don't like the President tweeting. You're not alone. But it's not gonna change, so you should try to have an open mind and embrace it. No president, or even a moderately busy person, has ever had to deal with an adversarial media with as much reach and influence as we currently do in 2017. When I was a kid, we had 12 tv stations and the news was on at 6. Period.. Now a generation later we have 1200 stations and 12,000 website all running 24 hours a day. The vast majority of them have openly abondoned an impartial approach to journalism and have completely committed to undermining Trump's administration. Trump needs a rapid-fire defense mechanism, and twitter provides that. It is part of his job. It's not a distraction. It's not a hobby. It's not a habit. It's not an obsession. It's not anything other than one of many functions of his job at President of the United States.

Also, this isn't like it's the first time this kind of thing has happened.

And it won't be the last. Because, again, twitter is now part of POTUS's job.

There you go, the old argument about Trump's stupid behavior deflecting attention from even worse behavior

I didn't say anything about "worse behavior". Maybe there's obstacles in the tax plan. Maybe there's rumblings from North Korea. Maybe there is just some other shit going down that demands his focused attention and occupying the media with some BS distraction about a college basketball player is exactly what he needs to focus on more important business.

Or maybe it's none of those things and he really just manipulated the media into emphasizing his success in China.

Sure, I guess that's a talent of sorts. But wouldn't you prefer a president whose image isn't so poor among most people that he needs to constantly be doing this?

That wasn't an option. Both Presidential candidates were widely detested.

So if I'm on the train home and I tweet to Mr. Ungrateful parent it's a good use of my time?

If part of your job is being in the headlines all day every day, and by sending that tweet you've helped shape and influence a headline that's favorable for you then yeah...that's a tremendously good use of your time.

[Poopadoop]

My point is that none of this would have happened if Mr Ball wasn't a dick. So it's a little dubious when people like you point the finger at Trump for being petty. He's seizing an opportunity. Ball gave him that opportunity.

No, come on. "He started it" isn't an argument unless you're in kindergarten. Trump is still being a dick himself.

Ok, so we agree then. Now the only question is this "impressive" outcome the result of Trump's actions, or just a case of him luckboxing into some positive spin? I kinda think it's the former.

He did something positive for once and he thinks it is positive like everything else he does and wants credit for it like everything else. This is not 3D chess, this is sandbox behavior.

Of course it's happened before. You act like it's always had a 100% success rate.

Thing is, we don't know how much of it was Trump and how much of it was just Xi thinking it seemed like a good idea. Sure Trump gets the credit because the nuances of the situation are beyond the general public that the media speaks to.

Pay attention dude. That's NOT the headline those people are seeing. The headline they are seeing is "Trump wins in China", and that probably DOES resonate with them

Yeah maybe he'll break 40% approval rating - at least until the next dumb thing he does hits the fan.

I get it, you don't like the President tweeting.

I've got no problem with people tweeting, even presidents. I have a problem with them being a twit on twitter whoever they are.

Or maybe it's none of those things and he really just manipulated the media into emphasizing his success in China.

If talking about how great he is were all he needed to do to get the media to talk about something good he did for a change, then they'd be doing that all the time. Fact is, he finally did something positive and he's getting rewarded with positive attention. Maybe next time when he hears the bell he'll salivate and eventually the media will have him trained.

If part of your job is being in the headlines all day every day, and by sending that tweet you've helped shape and influence a headline that's favorable for you then yeah...that's a tremendously good use of your time.

Oh, I didn't know self-aggrandizement was the president's main job. In that case, yeah he's doing a hella some good work there.

[BananaStand]

No, come on. "He started it" isn't an argument unless you're in kindergarten. Trump is still being a dick himself.

Misinterpretation. No one is invoking the "he started it" argument. I'm saying that Mr. Ball opened the door to this. Walking through that door resulted in Trump getting positive spin on CNN. Do you think he should not have walked through that door?

He did something positive for once and he thinks it is positive like everything else he does and wants credit for it like everything else. This is not 3D chess, this is sandbox behavior.

Trump has enjoyed an unfathomable amount of wealth and success on his way to winning a presidential campaign against the most locked-in candidate any pollster has ever seen. Do you really think he's miffed about Mr. Ball? Do you really think he sent that tweet out of petty anger? Do you really think a man that successful is that desperate for validation?

I know you WANT that to be true. I know you WANT to believe Trump is an immature buffoon. But the fact is he simply couldn't be where he is if that were true. It's infinitely more likely that Trump simply saw the snub from Mr. Ball as an opportunity he could exploit for his benefit. It's hard to argue against that, since it is exactly what happened.

Thing is, we don't know how much of it was Trump and how much of it was just Xi thinking it seemed like a good idea.

Imagine you're Xi. Foreigners just flouted your laws. Shortly after they were arrested, the father of one of them left town to do some kind of 'pop up shop' to sell his personally branded sneakers. It doesn't appear that these people are remorseful. It doesn't appear that these people are respectful of the laws that they broke. It appears that these men feel entitled to expeditious release. It appears that these men expect not to be held to the same standard as average Chinese citizens.

If you're Xi....are you leaning towards release or prosecution??

Sure Trump gets the credit because the nuances of the situation are beyond the general public that the media speaks to.

Re-read the above. Look what Xi was up against. His accountability is to the chinese people, not to some American-ized expectation of diplomacy. And the chinese people expect shoplifters to do hard time.

Yeah maybe he'll break 40% approval rating - at least until the next dumb thing he does hits the fan.

I read 41% on Saturday. It was reported as "his lowest ever". If you saw something below 40%, it was wrong. Also, 41% doesn't seem that bad considering it only takes 47-48% to win an election. And if I recall correctly, the last time we tested the accuracy of polls, it seems that Trumps approval was grossly under-reported.

Furthermore, what do you think Hillary's approval rating would be right now? If you recall, both candidates were historically hated.

I've got no problem with people tweeting, even presidents. I have a problem with them being a twit on twitter whoever they are

Well I don't think that's what happened here. I don't think that the man who amassed 10 billion dollars, scored 60 million votes, and enjoyed more lifetime success than pretty much anyone in American history is really interested in starting twitter beefs sneaker salesman. It's possible...., that Trump had a bigger play in mind here. Again...look at the results. You really think that was an accident??

If talking about how great he is were all he needed to do to get the media to talk about something good he did for a change, then they'd be doing that all the time.

Uhhhh, he does do that all that time. Everything he tweets gets airtime on major news networks. In this case, he caught Mr. Ball in a completely indefensible situation. In other words, Trump had the stone cold nuts. There was no way Ball could deny Trump helped him. There was no way he could logically defend his entitled position to anyone who doesn't already loathe Trump.

Fact is, he finally did something positive and he's getting rewarded with positive attention. Maybe next time when he hears the bell he'll salivate and eventually the media will have him trained.

Actually, this wasn't a story until Trump tweeted that jab at Mr. Ball. He wasn't getting any attention at all. Now he's been getting all positive spin for several days straight. All for doing something we both agree isn't a particularly demanding aspect of his job. Ball's blunder gave Trump a nut hand. And he got max value.

Oh, I didn't know self-aggrandizement was the president's main job. In that case, yeah he's doing a hella some good work there

Hard to deny the results. He must be doing something right.