**** Elections thread *****

[BananaStand]

So you agree my definition is more technically correct and that the way we've started to abuse it now is harmful. Seems like we're closer to agreeing than disagreeing?

Maybe. I'm really not about to debate the "technically correct" definition of a made-up word though. But I do know that there are technically correct definitions of the words "started" and "now". And on that, we completely disagree.

I'm not out-of-touch with the reality of the situation. I understand exactly what's going on, and I'm saying it's pernicious and speaking out against it.

Again, if we're going with technically correct definitions of words, "pernicious" is not apt. A 'pernicious' media bias has existed for as long as I can remember. The media invited this scrutiny. They created the climate where "news" is a dubious term. Seems kinda late in the game to be defending them against a scarlet-letter tactic that only came about in response to their own pernicious behavior.

If you want to 'speak out against it', wouldn't it be better then to put the onus on the actual media. Hold them accountable for what they print and say? Maybe challenge them to fix their own mess, rather than cast them as the victim?

Just to bring this discussion back full circle, in the paragraph I quoted, replace the term "fake news" with the word "racist" and replace spin, bias, etc with "use of the n-word by a non-black person, making off-color jokes," etc. DUCY?

Not really. It's 2017. If you use the n-word, jokingly or otherwise, you deserve whatever criticism you get. As I posted a few days ago, in my opinion, old people kinda get a pass on this, but not much of one. And I do realize that opinion is not widely accepted.

[surviva316]

I see we've entered the quibbling phase of our dialog.

Maybe. I'm really not about to debate the "technically correct" definition of a made-up word though.

TIL "fake" is a made-up word. I'd been using it for years, decades even. I didn't realize how ahead of my time I was.

But I do know that there are technically correct definitions of the words "started" and "now". And on that, we completely disagree.

I was talking about when the abuse of the phrase "fake news" started. I think it's fair to say this started sometime around late October/early November: https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=fake%20news.

I wasn't talking about when various levels of gaps in credibility started. That probably started sometime around when hominids developed language to the point they could started telling tales about sleeping with hot cave bitches. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's pretty clear that that's not what I was talking about.

Again, if we're going with technically correct definitions of words, "pernicious" is not apt. A 'pernicious' media bias has existed for as long as I can remember.

Again (for the ~basquillionth time), I'm talking about the abuse of the phrase "fake news." As in the entire fucking topic of this conversation. This has always been what I've been talking about. You have been the only one going into asides about the days of yore of when media bias first came about.

If you want to 'speak out against it', wouldn't it be better then to put the onus on the actual media.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, I've spent this entire conversation saying that CNN "sucks runny shit water" while also criticizing how people abuse the phrase "fake news."

Hold them accountable for what they print and say? Maybe challenge them to fix their own mess, rather than cast them as the victim?

They should be held accountable for what they print and say. You and I and wuf and Infowars should all be calling CNN out on their shit. But we should be accurate in how we critique them.

Not really. It's 2017. If you use the n-word, jokingly or otherwise, you deserve whatever criticism you get.

Not sure you're following the analogy. Using the n-word is wrong and deserves criticism, just like spinning news stories is wrong. Using the n-word (jokingly or otherwise) doesn't automatically make you a capital-R-Racist that should be used as a scarlet letter against you and delegitimize absolutely everything about your personhood, just like being biased doesn't automatically make you "fake news" that is sewn onto your organization and delegitimizes absolute every news item you ever print.

[BananaStand]

Not sure you're following the analogy. Using the n-word is wrong and deserves criticism, just like spinning news stories is wrong. Using the n-word (jokingly or otherwise) doesn't automatically make you a capital-R-Racist that should be used as a scarlet letter against you and delegitimize absolutely everything about your personhood,

Disagree. If you dont know how offensive that word is, and how ignorant it is to use it, in any context, if you're a non-black person, then I'm content to pretty much write off your entire purview on everything. I can't think of a more 'out-of-touch' sentiment one could have in 2017.

As I said, older people do get a slight pass. I mentioned my own grandfather in an earlier post. Here's a guy who saw all-white baseball for the first 21 years of his life, and it was considered totally fine. For the most part, he seemed to be a tolerant guy. But every once in a while something would "slip out". Like in 1994 he once uttered, "Man that Johnny Cochran is one smart n..."

He was also really upset by the Mike Tyson rape conviction. "Of course a judge believes a woman with a 4-inch waist over a n.. who can punch through a brick wall!"

Sitting in his living room, it's not that big a deal. If he said it in a crowded restaurant, I wouldn't fault anyone for throwing a bottle at him.