Do People Change?

[!Luck]

*
Ultimately, I think there are parts of our personalities that seem static and other parts which seem dynamic. I remember the past. My memories match up the the first person narrative of my self that I currently inhabit. Does that prove they're mine?

So draw me a line / tell me a definition of concepts like "change" and "self" and I can tell you my answer. I'm not sure the answer will be useful, but perhaps we can discuss speciation and something useful will come of the conversation.

What is you, what defines you.

Are you the collection of passed actions and results of life. Or are you the thoughts you had to attain those actions.

That's why drugs are fascinating they seem to be able to break a person, which supports renton's and spoons assurance that all thought is physical.

Why is it for some people when they are on anti-depressants they say they feel "themselves", while for others only when they are off the meds to they feel themselves.

There are broader issues at play here that, seem to be at the root cause of much of human misery.

[MadMojoMonkey]

If people don't change, then wouldn't we have learned tens of thousands of years ago that offering forgiveness is a life-threatening decision?
(I guess that's a hypothetical question.)

Evidence of people changing:
Education exists.
Death happens.

What is you, what defines you.

This is subjective.
Even empirical definitions of "self" are tricky.
A person is a person. A sandwich is a sandwich. The person eats the sandwich.
That person poops/pees/sweats/exhales.

A dominating percentage of dust is human skin cells.

The number of "human" cells in your body is outnumbered by nonhuman cells (i.e. bacteria) by about 10:1.

***
So the thing that buoys me in this regard is that medical doctors are amazing at what they do. It's less relevant to me than the measurable results of medical practice, but they do undergo 11+ years of specialized training to earn their MD.

I trust their practical, utilitarian definitions of what is me more than anything.

Are you the collection of passed actions and results of life. Or are you the thoughts you had to attain those actions.

Yes and yes, with no "or." Also, add the preceding medical perspective.

I believe that fracturing or departmentalizing my definition of self is folly. I am what I am, and probably a lot more than I understand of what I am, on every level.

That's why drugs are fascinating they seem to be able to break a person, which supports renton's and spoons assurance that all thought is physical.

Add me to the list of "all thought is physical" believers. There is a preponderance of medical data in the form of brain scans which indicates that thoughts and feelings are chemically manufactured in the brain prior to conscious awareness.

The brutal fact is that we make our decisions first, then that chemical decision is sent to the rational part of the brain, which assumes it just came up with the idea and immediately begins postulating why it did so.
All of this feels like we're thinking over a situation and coming up with a conclusion. The timeline of chemicals belies our feelings.

Why is it for some people when they are on anti-depressants they say they feel "themselves", while for others only when they are off the meds to they feel themselves.

If certain parts of the nervous system are artificially stimulated, then they produce a different personality. If the brain gets knocked about hard enough (by concussion or chemical damage), there will be physical damage that is irreversible.

I have no idea why "some people" feel the way they do.
I'd say that, from an evolutionary perspective, the struggle to be a unique individual has been a major boon to the species.
That may be rooted in a deep need for a sense of self and personal identity.

I should prob. stop at IDK.

There are broader issues at play here that, seem to be at the root cause of much of human misery.

This reminds me of the Buddha's Four Noble Truths:
1) Crap is everywhere; everything is crap. I bet you've felt like crap recently - maybe even right now.
2) You're probably are all like, "None of the last of the millions of shiny toys made me happy. Oh, look! A shiny toy! This will make me happy!"
3) You really don't have to keep doing that, fyi, btw.
4) Read my blog on "Eight things you can do to be Suffer-free" | TL;DR: Concentrate. Learn. Be a good person, FFS.

I always get stuck somewhere between (2) and (3) as well.

[!Luck]

So the thing that buoys me in this regard is that medical doctors are amazing at what they do. It's less relevant to me than the measurable results of medical practice, but they do undergo 11+ years of specialized training to earn their MD.

I trust their practical, utilitarian definitions of what is me more than anything.

Off topic.

Oh my fucking god man. i'll probably get flamed here, but shit man. Do you realize how dangerous the above is? How much harm this type of appeal to authority is causing in your life?

Training means shit*. The establishment means shit. You always have to critical think about shit. It's exhausting and it's painful.

Doctors are some of the least introspective people I've met, who commit travesties upon the world with the best intentions. This is no hyperbole.

The medical profession selects for confidence, how is that not retarded? Worst of all I am just as culpable for the reasons for this as anyone. When evaluating things you don't understand you rely on your personal reading ability of another human, the human goes "You NEED this procedure to save your life" vs. "It appears that there is a chance that the condition you have may be solved by operating like this, i've seen this work some of the time and fail at other times". The majority of people prefer the later doctor than the former. And that is some nasty shit.

Medical science as a whole is a boom to society, but man that shit didn't come without a cost. Too many coin flips in medicine.

Doctors are a bunch of monkeys throwing shit at the wall eventual they hit "something" and then they know "something". True understanding is quite far away.

So many drugs were designed to do X, but during trials they found it had the side affect Y, which is what that shit is now used for. We are barely out of the stone age of medicine and i'm not even sure about this.

Side affects and multiple drug interactions is poorly understood, the building blocks are missing or wrong with modern medicine.

Semi on topic
the reason i lol'ed at spoon is that they conclusive decided on how things work on something philosophers have been debating 100s of years. Doesn't mean i'm not mostly in their camp, but their confidence is lulzy. Though it may make life decisions either for them...I don't know.




*surgical training being the exception as those who practice cutting shit get good at cutting shit.

[a500lbgorilla]

Training means shit*. The establishment means shit. You always have to critical think about shit. It's exhausting and it's painful.

Relevant: https://theamericanscholar.org/solitude-and-leadership/

[!Luck]

Relevant: https://theamericanscholar.org/solitude-and-leadership/

Read it this morning.

you read longform.org?

[a500lbgorilla]

Read it this morning.

you read longform.org?

[MadMojoMonkey]

It's less relevant to me than the measurable results of medical practice

I'm not glorifying any establishment. I'm not trying to say all doctors are good or that any one doctor is always right.

I am untrained in medical knowledge. I have the First Aid skills of any good Boy Scout, but I have to defer to people who are experts in the field on any medical matter. That doesn't mean that I trust everything they say without critical thought. It just means I recognize that I'm a layman and that there are experts.

We're all a bunch of monkeys throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks... how is choosing a profession supposed to change that?
For me, what changes it is the institution of scientific doubt that permeates the community and encourages everyone to look for and call a turd a turd when they find it.
It's not a perfect system.
It's a system that encourages participants to say, "That's some good shit. I did what you said you did, and I found what you said I'd find. A+ work," or, "That's fucked up! I did what you said you did, but I did not find what you said I'd find. You're full of shit."

Barely out of the stone age? Maybe in some places, but I'd say using anti-matter to scan your body is fairly to moderately non-stone-agey.
A PET scan is a Positron Emission Tomography scan.
Meaning they (muhahaha) inject you with a substance that will release positrons. Positrons are anti-matter versions of an electron.
Man, it's so much more complicated than that. Stone Age? I don't see it.

***
Back to a more direct line on topic.

When I wonder at what is my self? / What is not myself? / What defines my self?
I am faced with a lot of angles.
When it comes to the measurable, tangible, physical angle... there are loads of professionals with a long history of results to observe.

I trust the body of medicine that saved my life when my appendix ruptured during my appendectomy operation.
I'm grateful to have my father alive, no matter how many bypass surgeries it takes to keep his heart working.

I'm not "blindly" trusting any establishment, man.
I'm admitting that whatever else I am, I am a chemical machine. There are chemical mechanics in this world.

[spoonitnow]

Off topic.

Oh my fucking god man. i'll probably get flamed here, but shit man. Do you realize how dangerous the above is? How much harm this type of appeal to authority is causing in your life?

Training means shit*.

I think it's interesting to see that it's almost always the same type of people who subscribe to this attitude towards things.