Cryptocurrencies

[Keith]

look at cardano (ADA) bought at 55 a week ago and hit the 90's now

At Boost be careful with doge ...its just a pump and dump with nothing behind it. Also ETH is still proof of work. proof of stake may be at least 12 months away . EIP1559 is the threat to mining to pay off your graphics card if it gets implemented by burning the gas fees and make mining less profitable


@Ong gas fees are gonna cripple your returns.

and sidenote

anything above a rx580 or 1060 is profitable mining ETH at the moment

[CoccoBill]

GRT is basically a supporting protocol for ETH, allowing indexing and queries. I have no clue what practical benefits that could bring, but they just announced they're trying to expand to other coins so stonks.

GRT +130% in 3 days.

[Poopadoop]

GRT +130% in 3 days.

BUY BUY BUY!!!!

[Poopadoop]

You guys are funny putting your money into crypto. Just go to Vegas and put your rollz on red if you want to gamble.

[Keith]

You guys are funny putting your money into crypto. Just go to Vegas and put your rollz on red if you want to gamble.

Im sure Elon Musk must be shitting himself after reading your analysis having put 1billion $ into bitcoin. or all the other fund managers and corporates that are looking at taking bitcoin payments in future as its a finite supply, due to fiat currencies being printed like crazy by national governments to finance their borrowings

[Poopadoop]

Im sure Elon Musk must be shitting himself after reading your analysis having put 1billion $ into bitcoin. or all the other fund managers and corporates that are looking at taking bitcoin payments in future as its a finite supply, due to fiat currencies being printed like crazy by national governments to finance their borrowings

Elon can afford to gamble a billion. If he loses it he still has 9 billion left.

or all the other fund managers and corporates that are looking at taking bitcoin payments in future as its a finite supply, due to fiat currencies being printed like crazy by national governments to finance their borrowings

Yeah, cause fund managers and corporates (whoever that means) always know what the market's going to do. Oh wait...

[oskar]

Im sure Elon Musk must be shitting himself after reading your analysis having put 1billion $ into bitcoin. or all the other fund managers and corporates that are looking at taking bitcoin payments in future as its a finite supply, due to fiat currencies being printed like crazy by national governments to finance their borrowings

I'm not buying crypto for the same reason I'm not buying Hyperloop stock... I don't see the merrit. Crypto is extra weird because the reason people want to buy it is the reason it's useless for its intended purpose.

It can be smart for Musk to buy a billion dollars in bitcoins... he's a one man pump and dump. It can also be stupid for me to buy $1000 in bitcoins because I don't know when Elon is dumping.

[OngBonga]

You guys are funny putting your money into crypto. Just go to Vegas and put your rollz on red if you want to gamble.

I think we're past the point of crypto being a "gamble". Putting your money in the bank is a "gamble". What if the system collapses? It's exactly the same risk with crypto now. Well, sort of. I mean, you have thousands of "banks" and you could invest in one that will disappear. That's a risk. But if you open a savings account, are you going to Natwest, or that new bank that you've never heard of? Investing in bitcoin long term is virtually risk free now. Other coins, there is more risk, but established coins with a purpose will be fine. Probably.

I honestly think, and this is not intended as a dis, that people use terms like "gambling" when talking of crypto because they don't understand it (I don't either) and they try to feel better about missing out a decade ago when there were millions up for grabs if we invested then. But the crypto market is still young, there is a fuckton of money to be made. It requires luck, discipline, research and patience. If you're unlucky but tick the other boxes, then you're very unlikely to do worse than sticking your money in an ISA.

[Poopadoop]

I think we're past the point of crypto being a "gamble". Putting your money in the bank is a "gamble". What if the system collapses?

Your bank savings are insured up to £85k by FSCS in the UK at least, and probably for similar amounts in other civilized countries. So no, it's not a gamble unless you put more than £85k into one bank.

I honestly think, and this is not intended as a dis, that people use terms like "gambling" when talking of crypto because they don't understand it (I don't either) and they try to feel better about missing out a decade ago when there were millions up for grabs if we invested then.

I mean all investments are gambles, they just vary in terms of risk/reward. Some are very low/zero risk and low reward like banks and gov't bonds, and some are high risk/potentially high reward like stocks and crytpos.

What you're saying here is kind of like saying people were dumb for not investing in microsoft when it was 2cents a share or whatever. The problem with saying these things is they're 100% hindsight. If it was obvious microsoft was going to dominate the PC market and the PC market would explode, then everyone would have invested in it, and the shares would never have been that cheap.

But the crypto market is still young, there is a fuckton of money to be made. It requires luck, discipline, research and patience. If you're unlucky but tick the other boxes, then you're very unlikely to do worse than sticking your money in an ISA.

There's a lot of people who try to make a go at investing, some of them pretend to do it as a profession and charge you for the privelege of getting their advice. The problem, as I've alluded to, is that the past is a poor predictor of the future for high risk investments. There's huge variance involved, and hence, a lot more luck than skill. The problem is people mistake variance for skill when they make money and rightly attribute it to luck when they lose money. But it's mostly luck.

There was a study done that showed that of the entire sample of wall street stock brokers followed over a period of a year, their investment outcomes came out in a normal distribution that was centred around the mean increase of all stocks. In other words, as a group they were no better than chance at investing. The distribution further suggests that the entire population of them were basically sitting in a distribution of luck. And these were "professionals", "experts" who do their research. If these experts are basically gambling with their investment choices and hoping to roll double-sixes, then what makes you think you are any different? It's nice to tell yourself there's really some angle involved and you can oustmart the pros, but in the real world that doesn't strike me as a plausible thing to bet on.

[CoccoBill]

How would you say investing in crypto differs from investing in stocks? Inb4 you say there's nothing "concrete" to back up the value of crypto, that is also true for stocks. The value of both are based on trust.

[Poopadoop]

How would you say investing in crypto differs from investing in stocks? Inb4 you say there's nothing "concrete" to back up the value of crypto, that is also true for stocks. The value of both are based on trust.

As I understand it, the values are based on what people are willing to pay. At some point people are going to realize these are just giant pyramid schemes, and bail en masse. If you can predict the date that will happen and sell the day before then you deserve to be rich. If you don't have that kind of clairvoyance then you are just gambling that your greed won't make you stick around to the bitter end.

[Keith]

How does that differ from investing in stocks?

Have you never heard of the wall street crash in 1929 ,oil crisis in the 70's, the dot com bubble in 80s'90s , financial crash in the late noughties .

[Poopadoop]

How does that differ from investing in stocks?

Stocks have some link to something of value. I.e., you can invest in Amazon with 0% risk that the stock is going to be worthless tomorrow.

[CoccoBill]

Stocks have some link to something of value. I.e., you can invest in Amazon with 0% risk that the stock is going to be worthless tomorrow.

Not really. If people lose trust in the stock, its price can reach 0, no matter what assets or whatever the company has. It is obv very unlikely the value of Amazon stock is worthless tomorrow, but that likelihood isn't 0%. Of course it's far more likely that eg. bitcoin's value will be 0 tomorrow, but there's nothing fundamentally different about them.

[Poopadoop]

Have you never heard of the wall street crash in 1929 ,oil crisis in the 70's, the dot com bubble in 80s'90s , financial crash in the late noughties .

I don't think stocks are a safe investment either. I certainly wouldn't chuck my life savings into the stock market. However, stocks still have a lower risk of ruin than a pyramid scheme.

[Keith]

Who's telling you to?
Crypto should only be money that you can afford to lose , just like your poker bankroll and as part of an overall investment strategy where you mix high risk medium risk and low risk investments and the crypto is part of the high risk investment part of your portfolio.

To say there is nothing backing up crypto shows a complete lack of any understanding of where crypto is heading . It will eventually be the basis of the financial system along with many other features based on its decentralized security. It like telling people back in the 80s/90s that the internet will be at the heart of the economy in 20-30 years time. Without the internet now , much of the economy would have ground to a halt instead of people continuing to do their work from home.

[OngBonga]

As I understand it, the values are based on what people are willing to pay.

Pretty much. Like gold. Gold isn't worth $50k+ a kilo because it's a good electrical conductor. It's worth that much because it has value as a trade asset. That's exactly the same as bitcoin. Ok you can't make wires out of bitcoin, but it's no different to gold in the sense its value is 100% based on supply and demand, like everything in a free market. It's worth what people are willing to pay for it, and that value is based on what you can trade it for.

If you don't have that kind of clairvoyance then you are just gambling that your greed won't make you stick around to the bitter end.

I think this is only true if you're day trading. If you're in it for the long haul, then does it matter if you lose out on a 10% swing? If I bought BTC for $1, and sold it for $40k just before Elon said some shit and it went to $48k in half an hour, I'm still not going to cry. I'm only going to cry if I'm a day trader who predicted a downturn, sold my BTC, and then watched it soar. I've quickly learned I'm not that kind of guy, I can't deal with the stress when I make a mistake that costs me 50c, so I know I can't handle proper money like that. But long term savings, I don't see it as a risk. If I open an ISA, what do I have in 20 years? Probably less than it's worth today, as inflation will bust my interest. The risk with crypto is investing in a dud coin. That's where research comes in. If a coin is useful and has a solid foundation, it's less risky. Go for top ten coins on the market, and buy to hold.

[OngBonga]

Your bank savings are insured up to £85k by FSCS in the UK at least, and probably for similar amounts in other civilized countries. So no, it's not a gamble unless you put more than £85k into one bank.

I don't think it will be long before people can actually insure their crypto assets. Once insurers are confident in it, they'll rake it in.

I mean all investments are gambles

Yeah of course, but we're pretty much at the point now, imo, where crypto is no more gambling than poker is. It depends on your skill, not your luck. You remove luck by having a diverse portfolio... investing in lots of coins at the same time.

What you're saying here is kind of like saying people were dumb for not investing in microsoft when it was 2cents a share or whatever.

Kind of. The difference is, nobody knew what the fuck Microsoft was when it was valued at 2c a share. I remember BTC getting to $100 and thinking I had missed the boat. It's taken me until 2021 to realise there's always a boat waiting in this market.

It's nice to tell yourself there's really some angle involved and you can oustmart the pros

This isn't what I'm trying to do. I'm not competing with anyone here. I'm trying to identify good opportunities for growth. At the very least, I hope I improve at this over time.

[Poopadoop]

This isn't what I'm trying to do. I'm not competing with anyone here. I'm trying to identify good opportunities for growth. At the very least, I hope I improve at this over time.

You're implying there's skill involved because you noticed a trend and jumped on the curve. The problem is the trend is very sensitive to variance as the graph I posted showed, and past performance is a very poor predictor of future performance for these types of investments.

I mean it's just your weed money or w/e so not that big a deal, but the idea that you or anyone else has a good idea where this rollercoaster is going is a bit fantastic to me, sorry.

[OngBonga]

I'm worth $160 now btw

I made a few bucks while I was at work. ADA has performed well.

[Poopadoop]

I'm not as daft as you think I am.

I'm worth $160 now btw

I'll worry about tax when I'm into five figures.

This is fucking painful to watch. GLHF.

[OngBonga]

You're implying there's skill involved because you noticed a trend and jumped on the curve.

No, this isn't a skill. The skill is in identifying coins with a future and having the discipline and patience to hold. There's probably some skill in identifying when a market is weakening, too.

I mean it's just your weed money or w/e so not that big a deal, but the idea that you or anyone else has a good idea where this rollercoaster is going is a bit fantastic to me, sorry.

I've been in crypto less than a week. Crypto definitely has a future. Definitely. As for any individual coin, I have no idea. Bitcoin is here to stay, that's all I can say with any confidence. But it won't be the coin people buy cans of coke with. It'll be an investment and liquidity vehicle, like gold. Whichever coin become "common currency" will definitely be a good one to get on early. The crypto market is way too young for it to be clear which coin will be most accessible though, technology has to evolve first.

[OngBonga]

Just because other cryptos aren't openly being advertised as pump-and-dumps doesn't mean someone hasn't figured out maybe it's better to do it hush-hush. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

I think you're not seeing what kind of scam these tweets are. You take the "discord" link and your computer gets infected with malware. And these scammers do promote other coins too. I saw them claiming the recent bull run on BTC was a pump and dump, but it wasn't, it was Elon Musk investing in BTC.

This is another problem with these types of investments. They're highly susceptible to corruption, and you have no way of knowing (unless someone is stupid enough to post on twitter about it, assuming those are honest posts and not some misdirection used by the competition to discredit DOGE) if and what that corruption is, and how it's going to affect your bottom line.

The potential corruption of developers is probably the largest risk.

[CoccoBill]

As I understand it, the values are based on what people are willing to pay. At some point people are going to realize these are just giant pyramid schemes, and bail en masse. If you can predict the date that will happen and sell the day before then you deserve to be rich. If you don't have that kind of clairvoyance then you are just gambling that your greed won't make you stick around to the bitter end.

What Keith said. The stocks have exactly as much value as people are willing to pay, that's the sole mechanism that dictates their price. What are you basing you pyramid scheme theory on? The fact that the early investors stand to benefit the most but also bear the initial risk, just like with stocks?

[OngBonga]

keith, what are gas fees? Transaction fees?

[Keith]

yeah , gas fees are the transaction fees and arent really a % but more of a flat fee and the gas fees are high at the moment because lots of transactions are required to process and to ensure your transaction is processed you have to pay more , which is the major problem that etherium is facing in that there network is congested leading to higher and higher transaction fees.

@ong ....have you got a graphics card and if so what is it?

[OngBonga]

yeah , gas fees are the transaction fees and arent really a % but more of a flat fee and the gas fees are high at the moment because lots of transactions are required to process and to ensure your transaction is processed you have to pay more , which is the major problem that etherium is facing in that there network is congested leading to higher and higher transaction fees.

@ong ....have you got a graphics card and if so what is it?

No my comp is shit, like really shit. I can't do mining if that's what you're getting at.

I'll research gas fees and find out how to avoid them.

[OngBonga]

I'm silently taking advice from people who come across as crypto experts on Twitter. I took note of ADA because people were talking positively about it. The thing is, if people are bigging it up, they're invested in it too. And if these people are making money, I want to invest in the same coins as they do. It's not like I'm buying shit people are trying to sell me. They have a vested interest in sharing their "secrets", because the more people that invest in the coins they hold, the more valuable it becomes.

I chose who to listen to based on their feelings about DOGE. Those who are holding, and think they're onto a winner, they don't understand crypto. I don't either, but I want to. That's why I got the fuck out of DOGE.

[Poopadoop]

I'm silently taking advice from people who come across as crypto experts on Twitter. I took note of ADA because people were talking positively about it. The thing is, if people are bigging it up, they're invested in it too. And if these people are making money, I want to invest in the same coins as they do. It's not like I'm buying shit people are trying to sell me. They have a vested interest in sharing their "secrets", because the more people that invest in the coins they hold, the more valuable it becomes.

That's also how pyramid schemes work. Just sayin'

[OngBonga]

That's also how pyramid schemes work. Just sayin'

Indeed. I appreciate your point here, but I'km pretty good at spotting a scam. Just search $doge in twitter and your timeline will fill up with people offering links to discord chats where they're planning pump-and-dumps. Scam as fuck. I recognised DOGE for the pump and dump scheme it is after one day of investment. It was quickly clear to me there were a multitude of better and less risky opportunities. I'm not as daft as you think I am. I read more than one tweet off someone who I am considering listening to. I go through their past tweets, take a look at the coins they were recommending a month ago, see how they've performed. This is how I determine who the experts are and who the idiots are.

I'm an idiot. I'm not pretending otherwise. But I'm not as much of a fish as those who are holding DOGE. It pains me to say that because I have friends invested for something like £200, and they won't move onto ADA or another coin. I hope after a month they'll see me performing much better and they'll listen to me.

[Poopadoop]

Indeed. I appreciate your point here, but I'km pretty good at spotting a scam. Just search $doge in twitter and your timeline will fill up with people offering links to discord chats where they're planning pump-and-dumps.

Just because other cryptos aren't openly being advertised as pump-and-dumps doesn't mean someone hasn't figured out maybe it's better to do it hush-hush. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

This is another problem with these types of investments. They're highly susceptible to corruption, and you have no way of knowing (unless someone is stupid enough to post on twitter about it, assuming those are honest posts and not some misdirection used by the competition to discredit DOGE) if and what that corruption is, and how it's going to affect your bottom line.

[Keith]

Just because other cryptos aren't openly being advertised as pump-and-dumps doesn't mean someone hasn't figured out maybe it's better to do it hush-hush. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

This is another problem with these types of investments. They're highly susceptible to corruption, and you have no way of knowing (unless someone is stupid enough to post on twitter about it, assuming those are honest posts and not some misdirection used by the competition to discredit DOGE) if and what that corruption is, and how it's going to affect your bottom line.

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/what-is-dogecoin

Maybe you should actually do some research about stuff before offering an opinion.

Even one of the founders has sold out and left the "community" . there is no use for the coin apart from a bit of crowd funding altruistic project and an unlimited supply . theres nothing to generate value and if you think people are trying to discredit it because they are scared of competition you really should stick to keeping your savings in a bank and hope its not northern rock or bank of scotland.

As for how to value a company/stock/crypto you read as much as you can about it , add up the positives and negatives and decide if you think its a good investment for you. Over time you will get experience and start to recognise trends that are happing in a company and apply l;essons you've learned in similar situations before to make a decision.At the end of the day , you are making an informed decision and the more information you base it on the better the decision is likely to be .

If investing was easy , no-one would ever make a losing investment.

[Jack Sawyer]

Nice how a spammer brought back my post from the dead and got everyone talking on this.

ETH is cool. BTC has now some major players behind it. Wall Street always finds a way to make money.

[OngBonga]

I'd need to spend some money to mine, and it would be an ongoing cost because I'd have to pay more towards electricity. It's not really an option, at least not now. I might as well just buy coin. I can add at least £20 a month to my wallet, plus any poker winnings, so I can grow my portfolio without the need to trade.

I definitely get what you're saying about gas, it's like beating the rake in poker. It is possible to make profits, because I have done so, I made 7 ADA in a DOGE pump and dump. But it's not how I intend to go forwards. However, I have a new toy to play with. If I lose a fiver dicking about, I won't lose any sleep. I won't keep wasting money like that because I don't want to leak my crypto.

[CoccoBill]

I think you've got this backwards. The BUY BUY BUY!!!! was 3 days ago, today it's SELL SELL SELL!!!!

[Poopadoop]

Well, where were you 3 days ago?

[CoccoBill]

Well, where were you 3 days ago?

Buying GRT. No, I'm not kidding.

[Poopadoop]

Great! How much did you win?

[CoccoBill]

Peanuts. Only bought with 100€ to see if my prediction would be correct, indeed it was, now at 258€. Maybe buy with more confidence next time and fail miserably.

Overall I'm at 210% with all my cryptos. Plan is to hold them for a couple years minimum.

[Keith]

@Ong use www.whattomine.com and it will tell you the relative payouts from mining . instead of buying £20 a month of crypto , you'd pay the leccy bill instead and payoff the card purchase. dont rely on the etherium mining profits though as eip1559 could kill off etherium mining but you'd then swap to some of the other coins.

you'll have to adjust for the electric price in the one box . im on .19$/kwh . you may be on higher especially if its a prepayment meter

[OngBonga]

I think mining is something I'm going to have to research more. I might talk to my landlord about it, pool our funds to get the right equipment. He understands computers better than I do too.

[OngBonga]

I don't pay the leccy, I just pay rent, but if I'm going to mine I'd have to tell my landlord and pay my fair share. If it's cost efficient for me to do it, I'll look into it. Thanks for the link, taking a look next.

Guess who dumped $LINK to go all in on $ADA? $LINK has gone wild today while $ADA just continues to threaten to. I think $ADA will be $1 within a day, 8% gain, but I'm missing other boats.

cocco don't be afraid to throw us a bone. I won't cry if it goes tits up.

[Keith]

imagines Ongs bedroom as a canabis grow room with light and heaters and a sleeping bag in the corner ......all for personal use officer ..

on a more serious note ....since its winter the heat generated mining will offset your heating costs

[OngBonga]

imagines Ongs bedroom as a canabis grow room with light and heaters and a sleeping bag in the corner ......all for personal use officer ..

on a more serious note ....since its winter the heat generated mining will offset your heating costs

I think even if I do this, by the time I've actually got my arse in gear winter will be over. But it's certainly something to bear in mind for long term, I mean I have an electric radiator keeping me warm through this Siberian bullshit.

[OngBonga]

I'm playing poker while in the background I have $ADA prices and graphs. When I see red bars, I run bad at the table. When I see green bars, I run good. We're still in coincidence territory here, but maybe just maybe there's something weird going on here.

[Jack Sawyer]

I'm playing poker while in the background I have $ADA prices and graphs. When I see red bars, I run bad at the table. When I see green bars, I run good. We're still in coincidence territory here, but maybe just maybe there's something weird going on here.

Pokerstars fucked my account up and I can't log in.

I only had like $5 on there though. Funny thing is I managed to log in to see how much I had on there, and then I tried again and was denied. I have no idea why. Only thing I can think of is that I had a US VPN activated when I tried lol, PS thought my account was US.

[boost]

Just catching up

I didn't mean to imply that I bought DOGE-- just that looking into the hype around the meme stonks lead to the hype around DOGE, which ultimately lead to taking a closer look at crypto in general. It was off in my periphery for years and I wish I hopped in back then-- not just for the $, but as much or more because I think the cryptoverse is fascinating. I've always loved sci-fi, and even if this all goes bust, it's fun participating in what feels like a science fiction plot.

One tough thing I've found about researching any possible investment is that even a neutral search on any coin or stock seems to turn up just a shitload of hype. I suppose it makes sense, the people that are talking most about a technology or business that has a potential large upside are going to be true believers.

With that said, and maybe I've just been taken in by the true believers, I think ETH's market cap is going to surpass BTC's in the next 5 years. BTC is just a store of value and it doesn't really have anything that makes it stand out aside from being first. ETH is a whole ecosystem. It's possible that ETH doesn't maintain its spot as the king of the hill of NFT's and DAPPS, but BTC can't(and isn't meant to) compete with it there, and ETH dwarfs any other rival altcoin that's meant to fill this role.

[OngBonga]

I don't think bitcoin has a serious rival for market dominance for a long time. I doubt BTC will be used by the masses for normal purchases, but it will be used for investment and for trading. Only when bitcoin starts to max out will other coins begin to catch up, and I think BTC has a very long way to go yet.

I don't think the future "common" currency crypto is clear yet. BTC is the gold, ETH is the silver, these are assets more than currencies used for purchases. DOGE does have potential here, but at 7c a coin already I don't think there's much scope for value. $1 is really the max I can ever see DOGE getting, and that's highly ambitious. DOGE has one thing going for it... cult status... and in the world of crypto, that might be enough for a future.

It could be ADA. They're well positioned, and I don't think the coin can really get much above $2 in the short term. That's based on the market cap of BTC (assuming ADA can get close to it in the future) and the circulation of ADA, which is a fuckton. A $2 coin is the kind of thing you might buy a can of coke with in the future.

I do think crypto is really going to take off soon though. Like, very soon. BTC is a trillion dollar coin now, a single coin is nearly the price of a kilo of gold. It's already serious stuff, but as it comes into common use it will go nuclear. I want to be on the right coins when that happens. BTC is probably the safest bet, but there will be more profitable ones if you can find them.

[Keith]

the huge thing about bitcoin is that the wider use it generally has around the world , the potential for alt coins explodes much more as people see and value bitcoin as an asset there wariness of cypto as a whole will reduce and then people will start to explore the potential of the altcoins. While its the dominant player at the moment , bitcoin could then be surpassed by altcoins with real world uses that could then be used to generate wealth paid in those coins. Bitcoin lacks that advantage with a fixed number of coins .

[boost]

the huge thing about bitcoin is that the wider use it generally has around the world , the potential for alt coins explodes much more as people see and value bitcoin as an asset there wariness of cypto as a whole will reduce and then people will start to explore the potential of the altcoins. While its the dominant player at the moment , bitcoin could then be surpassed by altcoins with real world uses that could then be used to generate wealth paid in those coins. Bitcoin lacks that advantage with a fixed number of coins .

Yeah, I agree, although I'd put a caveat with the framing. In terms of speculative investing today, it makes sense to think of BTC and ETH/other alts as rivals, with the one with the highest market cap/value per coin at some fixed point in the future being the "winner," but functionally I think BTC simply fills a different role from ETH and many other alt coins.

[boost]

Ong, you seem fixated on the value of a single coin, but this doesn't really matter. Just move the decimal point.

Ofc it feels crazy to us that an average entry level sedan costs 3-5mm units of currency, but that's the case in Japan with the Yen trading at ~105:1 USD. The thing is, it's normal to the Japanese.

With BTC, we're dealing with the opposite-- the same car is worth somewhere around .625 BTC. But already it's common to count BTC in Satoshi's or Sats, the smallest divisible unit of BTC, which is a millionth of a BTC. There are ways to further break up sats, but for context, BTC would need to reach 1mm for a sat to reach parity with 1c USD

Nonetheless, it does seem like BTC will continue to be digital gold. With that said, it's estimated that all the gold that's ever been mined in human history is currently worth in the realm of 2 trillion USD, but there's nearly 40 trillion USD worth of currency in the world. I'm not sure if it makes sense to expect a similar ratio of primary store of value to active currency in the cryptoverse, but it seems like a reasonable starting prediction.

[OngBonga]

Ong, you seem fixated on the value of a single coin, but this doesn't really matter. Just move the decimal point.

I'm not interested in the value, only the potential growth. If $ADA only has room for 100% growth from here, while $BTC has room for 2000%, then $BTC is the better long term investment. idk if it's fair to say $ADA can only get to $2, but it seems to me in order to do so it needs to significantly close the gap on $BTC in terms of market cap. I suspect $ADA has better short term prospects than $BTC though.

The values are important for daily function though. Normal people won't want to spend a coin that's valued in the $1k+ because it's not as simple to understand the numbers at a glance. You don't need to count zeros to know you're looking at $1000, but you do need to count zeros if you're trying to decide if 0.00001 BTC is a fair price for a can of coke. So the value does have relevance, in terms of common use.

Ofc it feels crazy to us that an average entry level sedan costs 3-5mm units of currency, but that's the case in Japan with the Yen trading at ~105:1 USD. The thing is, it's normal to the Japanese.

This is still only 100x and within natural grasp.

With BTC, we're dealing with the opposite-- the same car is worth somewhere around .625 BTC. But already it's common to count BTC in Satoshi's or Sats, the smallest divisible unit of BTC, which is a millionth of a BTC. There are ways to further break up sats, but for context, BTC would need to reach 1mm for a sat to reach parity with 1c USD

I guess breaking it up into cents dimes and quarters and whatnot will help.

With that said, it's estimated that all the gold that's ever been mined in human history is currently worth in the realm of 2 trillion USD

Fiat is no longer built on gold, but it's still crazy to think how much Monopoly money there is in circulation. The funny thing is, lots of people dismiss crypto as Monopoly money, but it's built on more solid foundations than fiat. I think crypto is the end of fiat. It will take a decade or two, but this is the beginning.

[CoccoBill]

The values are important for daily function though. Normal people won't want to spend a coin that's valued in the $1k+ because it's not as simple to understand the numbers at a glance. You don't need to count zeros to know you're looking at $1000, but you do need to count zeros if you're trying to decide if 0.00001 BTC is a fair price for a can of coke. So the value does have relevance, in terms of common use.

As Boost said, I doubt this will be an issue. I've already once switched over from one currency to euro, and it didn't take long to start thinking about prices in euro without a need for conversion. Same with spending any extended amount of time abroad, you quickly get used to the local currency. People will adapt quickly.

[oskar]

As Boost said, I doubt this will be an issue. I've already once switched over from one currency to euro, and it didn't take long to start thinking about prices in euro without a need for conversion. Same with spending any extended amount of time abroad, you quickly get used to the local currency. People will adapt quickly.

My uncle who still converts to Schilling 22 years later begs to differ.

[boost]

your uncle will be dead soon.

[Keith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGd6O79_MOc

handy video explaining a lot of the concepts

and another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2v5eGQqU8U

[Poopadoop]

banana?

[OngBonga]

This thread will be really entertaining to read in the future. Perhaps painful, but entertaining.

[OngBonga]

I've changed strategy. I'm all in on $DENT. Currently $0.00135, I have nearly 150k of them and will add more in the coming months. A market cap of £100b (half of Ethereum now) would value the coin at $1. I don't think that's unrealistic for ten years maybe, if they continue to develop.

What makes them special? They are the first movers (I think) in a global mobile phone service that will eliminate roaming, and allow you to trade unused minutes from your contract. They already have 25 million people signed up to access their services. The coin will be used to send or receive payment for transactions on their exchange. The coin is already used for this, it's up and running.

0.135 cents

This is the shit I want in on.

[spoonitnow]

I've changed strategy. I'm all in on $DENT. Currently $0.00135, I have nearly 150k of them and will add more in the coming months. A market cap of £100b (half of Ethereum now) would value the coin at $1. I don't think that's unrealistic for ten years maybe, if they continue to develop.

What makes them special? They are the first movers (I think) in a global mobile phone service that will eliminate roaming, and allow you to trade unused minutes from your contract. They already have 25 million people signed up to access their services. The coin will be used to send or receive payment for transactions on their exchange. The coin is already used for this, it's up and running.

0.135 cents

This is the shit I want in on.

This is by far one of the least dumbass things I've seen said on these forums in the past decade.

[OngBonga]

Also hi spoon.

[Poopadoop]

You've changed your mind 480 times in the last week.

[OngBonga]

a) I'll change it again lots of times, too

b) I'm HODL

Not sure which is the correct answer yet.

[OngBonga]

Fuck me an actual compliment. Thanks.

I'm down $15 since I made that post though.

[OngBonga]

I mean I'm literally just getting into crypto now, this month. I've ignored it for a long time. Five years ago you think you've missed the boat, then five years later you realise that the vast majority of people still think crypto is a joke, which means there's still plenty of boats waiting.

idk if $DENT has a future, but their model seems pretty good to me. I will definitely be keeping en eye on their progress, not just in terms of crypto value. Worst case scenario right now is I lose $200, most of which I won playing poker. If I hadn't spent this money on crypto, I'd simply have more weed. So it's definitely worth the risk.

[Keith]

level 1[COLOR=var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText)]BOS5Man

1 year ago

There are a LOT of scam coins in crypto, some already shuttered after being found out it was a scam, some currently still operational (like Dent token) and some we aren't aware of yet.
Dent the company itself is doing a good job, they are doing what they wanted, Dent the token is being used by the Dent team as a personal piggie bank. They sell BILLIONS of tokens a week to Binance for BTC. Then when BTC will go up they'll profit BIG time.
Dent the token is definately a scam. The plan by the team for the token has always been to use the token as their way to make money on it by trying to convince people that the token will be of value in the long term while knowing as soon as the price goes up a bit the team would sell HARD. This has been the strategy of the Dent team.
The Dent token is a scam, it's a dead "investment" there are no more new "investors" for Dent token because the reputation of that token and the team is so bad, very difficult to come back from. I don't trust the team, they're nothign but a bunch of fraudsters. Luckily, I actually made a profit on this coin during the May 2019 to June 2019 rally but I did so going into it knowing the team would eventually dump so I had to withdraw profits quick.


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level 1[COLOR=var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText)]hivo2030

1 year ago

Where did all the people who continued to purchase dents a year ago went? Maybe he committed suicide. An endless basement could not have been imagined.wwwwwwww Or part-time job employed by the dent team.


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level 1[COLOR=var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText)]10dollaris10dollar

1 year ago

thanks for this very reliable source to proof the dent is a scam


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level 2[COLOR=var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyText)]BOS5Man

1 year ago

The proof is on etherscan. They sell BILLIONS of tokens a week. On their official Dent Community telegram they try to convince people that all these great new features are coming out and that the value of the token will rise. Try to give people hope to buy. But they do this knowing when enough gullible people buy they will SELL billions of tokens and make a nice profit for themselves. That's been the Dent strategy all along. They have 25 Billion more tokens to sell. They slowed down the selling when circulating supply hit 70 billion so they can stretch out the selling into a longer time frame that would benefit their plans most. By end of next year Dent will most likely reach 100 billion in circulating supply and the price will be 0.00001 (LOL). This year they added almost 50 Billion tokens into circulation, killing the value of the price by team dumping Dent tokens.
Dent token is unofficially dead but dead.







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[OngBonga]

I found some claims that people who buy coins from the app are buying from the uncirculated supply, not investors, which at the time was the majority of the tokens, but now the circulating supply is 90%, so I don't see this being a problem going forwards. Each token is equal.

The question for me is, does this company have a future as a big player in the global digital mobile phone market? If so, their token will surely increase in value as demand increases.

[Keith]

this looks very like a pump and dump to me , when there are billions of coins in circulation and the people holding billions that they retained when the coin was created and are dumping huge quantities into the investment pipeline it doesnt say a lot for their belief in the long term value of the coins otherwise they would be holding them for when they become more valuable and it also depresses the price and short/mid term price potential as the supply of increased probably more than the demand.

[OngBonga]

this looks very like a pump and dump to me , when there are billions of coins in circulation and the people holding billions that they retained when the coin was created and are dumping huge quantities into the investment pipeline it doesnt say a lot for their belief in the long term value of the coins otherwise they would be holding them for when they become more valuable and it also depresses the price and short/mid term price potential as the supply of increased probably more than the demand.

I'm going to keep an eye on their progress. The coin is performing well at the moment, and has a lot of support. So I'm in no hurry to dump my bag yet. If the company appears to be growing, I'll see it as a good sign that my investment is secure.

I'm ok putting $200 at risk for potential gains of $100k+. If I see a better investment I'll go for it, but frankly I want potential for 1000x growth, and I'm only likely to find such coins with low market cap, which means more risk.

$100m to $100b potential, that's what I'm looking for. This coin fits the bill, and has actual real world use. People selling their coins isn't that much of a concern for me, maybe they thought BTC would perform better than their coin and their money was better off invested elsewhere. Maybe they've reinvested after making a profit. idk, but if the company is growing, so too will the crypto.

I appreciate you flagging it though, I will keep an eye on them.

[Keith]

You have a huge problem though ong , the major telecoms companies own the infrastructure that customers use to access the mobile network , definitely for the uk and probably the rest of the world which means that dent would have to spend billions building a worldqwide network or be buying access off the current major telecoms companies and theres no way that people are going to pay a likely higher price in a coin that no one has any idea about how to get hold of them etc when they just use their existing providers taking a monthly direct debit or a PAYG topup at the local shop.

ETH and Cardano surging 1910 and 0.91

[OngBonga]

I just found that reddit thread doing my own research on this. I can't seem to find any recent criticism though. And I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could find someone claiming every coin as a scam.

I don't really understand why them selling tokens is a problem. The development of the service seems to be what matters the most. If some of them are cashing in on their assets, that's their business.

Are there any credible allegations of illegal activity?

[oskar]

What I find confusing is that the "market cap" of crypto seems to be a major draw, and it's a common criticism crypto guys have of fiat currencies is that world banks control the amount in circulation, but I don't understand how a currency is supposed to be adopted that has a market cap. Deflation is super bad for a currency because why trade something that increases in value?

When you have a market cap and your currency gets slowly adopted, it will naturally deflate, which in turn makes it unattractive as a currency.

[OngBonga]

What I find confusing is that the "market cap" of crypto seems to be a major draw, and it's a common criticism crypto guys have of fiat currencies is that world banks control the amount in circulation, but I don't understand how a currency is supposed to be adopted that has a market cap. Deflation is super bad for a currency because why trade something that increases in value?

When you have a market cap and your currency gets slowly adopted, it will naturally deflate, which in turn makes it unattractive as a currency.

Gold has a market cap, as does the dollar. It isn't a limit. The word "cap" is short for capitalisation. That is, it's the total value of the market, not the limit. Market cap grows as the price of each coin increases due to demand outweighing supply. Market cap for dollars goes up when they print more money.

idk about deflation, but if BTC is ever the world's leading currency, then it kinda becomes meaningless to say it's increasing or decreasing in value, instead you compare other currencies to it, like we currently compare everything to the dollar (or perhaps your own nation's currency). A dollar is worth a dollar. One day we'll simply say 1 BTC is worth 1 BTC.

[OngBonga]

I could've made $10+ if I was still on $ADA

Yes, the infrastructure is owned by certain companies. Not Tesco though, who I currently use for my mobile services. You don't need to own the network to profit from it.

Dent is already available in 80 countries. Of course it's still early days, you'll struggle to find someone actually using Dent for their phone services, but they exist. Dent even claim you can keep your current number.

I'm not going to pretend to know how this will all work, but it shouldn't be more expensive if you're buying data from people instead of the network themselves.

The value of the coin is irrelevant. If one coin is worth $0.01, then data will be sold based on that price, like 100 $dent per MB or whatever. If it's $1 a coin, data will be based on that price, ie 1 $dent per MB. The prices are based purely on supply and demand. If it's too expensive, supply will be greater than demand and it will get cheaper. That's how markets work.

This is without a doubt the future of mobile phones. Whether Dent is part of the future is another matter, but this model will outcompete the current one because it will eat into their profits. Do you really think you'll still be paying a monthly fee for your contract with Vodafone or whoever in ten years? If you are, the Millennials will call you a stupid boomer and laugh at your economic illiteracy.

The model is appealing, very much so. The company itself and the coin, I can't say at this moment. But I'm not crying about missing out on ADA surging 10%. I'll cry if ADA gets to $100 before DENT gets to $0.10.

[OngBonga]

I'm just looking into this more. You currently use DENT coin to purchase data from major operators around the world. The Vodaphones of the world are on board. idk about Vodaphone themselves, but they name companies not operating in the UK, such as AT&T, Verizon, Movistar and Telcel.

The major players are part of this project, probably because they know they need to adapt in order to survive the changes to the market that will take place in the coming decade.