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CORONAVIRUS PANIC WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE

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  1. #1051
    But afaik, the problem wasn't just that they went from A to B, it's that a) it took them too long to do it; and b) they're still not fully prepared to implement B properly.
    It's likely this is fair and true. But their actions can still be in good faith, the advice they were getting could have been ambiguous enough for them to think they were doing the right thing.

    That we were even talking about "herd immunity" in the early stages shows how unprepared we were. It was a serious option at the time, considered to be viable. It was only when it became clear the NHS would not be able to cope that we changed course. The shift to plan B was far from ideal, but idk how you can expect it to be perfect. You're expecting those in charge to balance health, economics and politics. Under normal circumstances, that's their job. But these are not normal circumstances.

    The transition from plan A to B was probably too long. Ten days to implement a lockdown is a long time. But you haven't once even acknowledged the point I made about India doing it in four hours. Clearly doing it immediately is worse than doing it in stages. I agree doing it in ten days is too much, but how are we supposed to know this? It's obvious four hours is not enough.

    I mean, there are people who considered all these things in advance. You say it's unprecedented, but that's not entirely true, at least not in the general sense. They've had models for how infectious diseases behave, and how to deal with pandemics for a long time.

    Of course they plan for this, but this is the first time such plans have been put into action.

    One argument against an early lockdown is it hurts the economy. Well, we ended up having to be in full lockdown for 8 weeks, and are only now just easing out of it, and possibly too early because we don't have adequate TTI yet. Meanwhile other places have had things under control earlier and so their lockdowns lasted less time than ours.

    You're still citing mistakes that can be made in good faith, ie forgivable mistakes.


    I do strongly suspect they're being influenced by big business to open up and/or never to have closed, if that makes you feel better.

    Why would it make me feel better? I'd rather them be incompetent. Bur it's this kind of thing that isn't forgivable. This is corruption.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  2. #1052
    The UK, and the USA, are refusing to share coronavirus vaccine research with the rest of the world. The race to make a vaccine is not a race to save lives, it's a race to make money. China and Russia are probably doing the same.

    If Cummings was "testing his eyesight" then I'm the Queen of England.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's likely this is fair and true. But their actions can still be in good faith, the advice they were getting could have been ambiguous enough for them to think they were doing the right thing.
    It's a subtle but important point that the advice from SAGE wasn't ambiguous, it was conflicting. It said you can either do A or do B. Once you start doing A, it's too late to do B effectively. So you've got to make a decision and be prepared to face the consequences.

    The best estimates around early Feb. were that the case fatality rate was about 1%, and that 60% or more needed to be infected in order to achieve herd immunity. So Plan A assumed something like 400k deaths in the UK. That's a pretty fucking stark choice to be considering. And it would have been clear right away the NHS was not going to be able to cope with that. Right then and there they should have been saying "what's Plan B and how do we implement it?"

    As it happens (according to the Times story) the official gov't pandemic response plan to an infectious disease was a fully developed and detailed Plan B. IOW, years ago a group of experts had already worked out how to do it and what needed to be done and when, and had written it down. So there was a step-by-step Plan B ready to be implemented, and they chose not to.

    But ok fine, a lot of countries made that mistake too, they didn't have their Plan B ready, or they hesitated because it would have meant a big disruption. A lot of the ones that were even going with Plan B from the start, started it too late. We're not alone in that.

    The thing is, once we decided we weren't prepared to stick to Plan A and instead needed to get to Plan B, we needed to fucking get to Plan B pronto. Not in some hypothetical time in the future, or a couple of weeks, or ten days, but sooner because every day counts.

    And certainly once they decided they were going to Plan B they had to make it clear to everyone this was going to be happening very soon, within days, as soon as practical. That's kinda the whole point of Plan B; you have to lock the stable door before the horses get out.

    Their problem was they based their actions on wishful thinking. They seemed to have it in their heads that this would somehow not hit us like it was hitting ITA and SPA at the time. There was no scientist telling them that, they just based it on what they were hoping would be true.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  4. #1054
    As it happens (according to the Times story) the official gov't pandemic response plan to an infectious disease was a fully developed and detailed Plan B. IOW, years ago a group of experts had already worked out how to do it and what needed to be done and when, and had written it down. So there was a step-by-step Plan B ready to be implemented, and they chose not to.
    Does this not naturally cause you to lean more towards corruption than incompetence?

    A lot of your comments assume the govt have acted incompetently in good faith, and you're critical. I'm thinking the govt have acted corruptly, and I want to wait for an inquiry before judging, basically hoping they are just incompetent. It's an interesting difference of opinion, if I'm honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #1055
    I'm not sure how to define 'good faith' in this context because to me it assumes they were trying to do what's best for the country. I think the problem is they were given a clear indication of the best course of action and didn't take it. Their motives for that may well have been tempered in a number of ways that aren't all necessarily honorable.

    e.g., the Times article suggested that Boris didn't like the idea of a lockdown because it went against his libertarian instincts. That's naive and shows poor judgment, but it's not corrupt.

    And if by 'corrupt' you mean GSK or whoever was bribing them to let the virus spread so they could make money off a vaccine, and they deliberately followed the one course of action that would maximize suffering, I find that hard to believe, even for this gang.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  6. #1056
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  7. #1057
    "Good faith" is a pretty subjective term, but for me it's acting with good intention. If they took a path they knew was inferior, then it's hard to see how that decision can be made in good faith.

    e.g., the Times article suggested that Boris didn't like the idea of a lockdown because it went against his libertarian instincts. That's naive and shows poor judgment, but it's not corrupt.

    It's also pretty naive to give any credit to a tabloid that is psychoanalysing a politician.

    And if by 'corrupt' you mean GSK or whoever was bribing them to let the virus spread so they could make money off a vaccine, and they deliberately followed the one course of action that would maximize suffering, I find that hard to believe, even for this gang.

    I agree that's pushing the boundaries of viability. But GSK lobbying for access to the vaccine rights, with a few dirty handshakes and briefcases handed over, is certainly within the realms of possibility. The UK and USA are not sharing their vaccine research with the rest of the world, and the reason is money.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  8. #1058
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    "Good faith" is a pretty subjective term, but for me it's acting with good intention. If they took a path they knew was inferior, then it's hard to see how that decision can be made in good faith.
    It's a bit more nuanced than that I think. I think they probably didn't accept what they were being told about how bad things were likely to get. Does that mean they had bad intentions, or just that they were subject to cognitive biases? And if the latter, then you can argue their intentions were good, but their decision making was foggy or clouded or whatever word you want to use.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's also pretty naive to give any credit to a tabloid that is psychoanalysing a politician.
    To be clear, the Times was reporting what people around Boris were reflecting on as their impressions about him at the time. Another quote from the same article was 'deer in the headlights'. So it's not them analysing him. Obv. we can't know what was going on in his head, and you can clearly question what kind of bias an official willing to talk to the left-wing press might harbor.

    More to the point, I think this comes back to my reference to character. A good leader like Churchill would not say 'well it looks like I fucked up but that's fake news.' He'd say "it looks like I fucked up because I very well might have fucked up. Give me another chance, and I'll do better." I think the latter attitude shows a lot more character and ultimately inspires more confidence in the public. The Boris attitude seems to be a Trumpian 'never admit to a mistake' and when the mistakes are so blatant for all to see that's a bad look.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I agree that's pushing the boundaries of viability. But GSK lobbying for access to the vaccine rights, with a few dirty handshakes and briefcases handed over, is certainly within the realms of possibility. The UK and USA are not sharing their vaccine research with the rest of the world, and the reason is money.
    I thought it was just the US that wasn't sharing; I thought the UK was getting together with Europe on this one. But that was a couple of weeks ago so maybe it's changed, or the news was incorrect.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  9. #1059
    Also, you know, it's not just like they made one bad mistake back in March and have making up for it since then. The bumbling seems to just keep going on and on. Their recent opening up strategy and "stay alert" slogan has come under attack from the experts - Independent Sage and others - because it's not supported adequately by TTI.

    Most recently, they announced a further loosening for Monday, still without adequate TTI in place and that seem sto go against their own plan which was to implement the stages of loosening based on the current Alert Level. The current AL is still 4 which is 'high' but they're now loosening up as if it were 3. I mean it's pretty obvious they don't know what they're doing.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  10. #1060
    FWIW, Independent Sage is an interesting and afaik unprecedented phenomenon. It's a group of renowned world experts in the UK who weren't on the gov't SAGE team but nonetheless are willing to risk their reputations by making their views public (something that SAGE failed to do). It gives them incredible accountability and public credibility that the gov't SAGE team is lacking. IS is open to criticism from other experts. If they say something controversial, anyone can question them.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  11. #1061
    I thought it was just the US that wasn't sharing; I thought the UK was getting together with Europe on this one. But that was a couple of weeks ago so maybe it's changed, or the news was incorrect.

    Here's an article from your least favourite former ambassador... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...m-coronavirus/

    I mean there's nothing concrete, but he cites articles that claim Russia, China and Iran are trying to hack into pharma and uni websites to gain access to research.

    This was posted May 17th. Murray is clued up and honest. If the UK was working with the EU on this, he would add an update to his article. Even in the EU, we were closer to USA, that only increases now. If their pharma companies are trying to profit from this, ours are too.

    The UK govt do not like Murray, they have their sights set on him. He's charged with contempt of court and faces court next month in relation to the Alex Salmond case. You'd probably like him if you gave him a chance, he's heavily left-leaning economically. I read him for his foreign affairs, and his views on govt corruption. I ignore his views on socialism and Scottish independence.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  12. #1062
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Here's an article from your least favourite former ambassador... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...m-coronavirus/ .
    Not sure that talks about cooperation between UK and EU. Here's the article I saw:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9496696.html
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  13. #1063
    Well those comments from Boris are a direct contradiction. Let's see where it goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  14. #1064
    Deputy Chief Medical Officer Van Tam has given the Cummings fiasco some fresh legs today. This shit isn't going away.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  15. #1065
    So Hancock just announced vulnerable would be allowed to leave their homes tomorrow.

    When did we go to Alert Level 1?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  16. #1066
    It actually looks like they've given up on Plan B and are going back to Plan A? Or are they? They've started some feeble attempts to implement TTI, but Sridhar thinks the numbers are too high for that.

    Ong will be pleased at least there is some evidence that there was groupthink going on in SAGE. Good thing they didn't make their minutes public until now- someone might have asked some tough questions!



    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  17. #1067
    More political point-scoring by the libs

    https://twitter.com/NHSMillion/statu...61874062372864
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  18. #1068
    SAGE scientist says "We should have gone into lockdown sooner." Yeah no shit.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  19. #1069
    Was just waiting for someone to come with a syringe and a strait jacket

    https://twitter.com/RexChapman/statu...12010555932672
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  20. #1070
    Our governments' uneducated responses to COVID is deeply unsettling to me.
  21. #1071
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    I'm particularly upset by Trump denying it's a national issue, and blaming the states for something they had every precedent of expecting federal support with.

    I'm particularly offended that Trump threatened governors who "weren't nice" to him with actions that would put every person in that state at greater risk of death.

    The reduction of the national pandemic response staff and capabilities is deeply upsetting. It's not like anyone could have known that this would happen in 2020, but it was a morally questionable and mortally dangerous gamble to take.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  22. #1072
    The response here has not been as outrageously off-key as Trump's, but it could hardly be described as competent either.

    Gov't spent a big pile of money to a private company for a 'world beating' contact tracing app, and this company is only contacting 1/3 people who test positive, never mind their contacts. So it's basically next to useless. That's just the latest fuckup in a long string of fuckups going back to Jan.

    Here's Johnson doing his best impression of more articulate version of Trump.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  23. #1073
    And here he is doubling down on a lie that's pointed out straight to his face. Our own little Trump.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  24. #1074
    Anybody have stats on mortality rates and causes relative to initial reported mortality rates and causes from previous years?
  25. #1075
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I'm particularly upset by Trump denying it's a national issue, and blaming the states for something they had every precedent of expecting federal support with.

    I'm particularly offended that Trump threatened governors who "weren't nice" to him with actions that would put every person in that state at greater risk of death.

    The reduction of the national pandemic response staff and capabilities is deeply upsetting. It's not like anyone could have known that this would happen in 2020, but it was a morally questionable and mortally dangerous gamble to take.
    He's done such a bad job managing the psychology.

    There's no gameplan, no end in sight. Officials don't have adequate guidance and are making concrete decisions based on unknown or inadequately used statistics.
  26. #1076
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Anybody have stats on mortality rates and causes relative to initial reported mortality rates and causes from previous years?
    Financial Times has been tracking this in the UK for weeks now. We're at about 65k excess deaths relative to the five-year average for this year up to now. Our official CV deaths is at 43k, so yeah either they're missing a lot or people are dying 'cause they can't get the health care they could pre-CV.

    I think this is the US equivalent. Not sure how up-to-date it is though.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  27. #1077
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Financial Times has been tracking this in the UK for weeks now. We're at about 65k excess deaths relative to the five-year average for this year up to now. Our official CV deaths is at 43k, so yeah either they're missing a lot or people are dying 'cause they can't get the health care they could pre-CV.

    I think this is the US equivalent. Not sure how up-to-date it is though.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm
    Do you know if the previous numbers are revised of if they are at-the-time recordings?
  28. #1078
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Do you know if the previous numbers are revised of if they are at-the-time recordings?
    There's about a four-day lag between the death and when it's registered with the Office of National Statistics which records the numbers, if that's what you mean. So e.g., the count on June 11 is actually the deaths up to about June 7.

    That's in the UK, can't speak to what happens elsewhere.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  29. #1079
    I'm getting at revisions of numbers at later dates.

    The piece of fake news that had pneumonia deaths at significantly lower was because it was using initial figures and comparing them to historical figures that were revised at what looked to be months later.

    It's regular in economics. Each month, the employment data you hear is revised down the road to more accurate figures. Frequently the revisions are big. I forget how much it lags, but it's long(ish).
  30. #1080
    Darwin Awards being doled out by the dozens this year.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/30-year-ma...l_twitter_abcn
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  31. #1081
    One of the criteria necessary to qualify for a Darwin Award is to not reproduce. If that guy managed to father children before he tested his hoax theory, his genes are still in the population. Still, he'd surely qualify for an "honourable mention", which is prestigious in itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #1082
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    One of the criteria necessary to qualify for a Darwin Award is to not reproduce. If that guy managed to father children before he tested his hoax theory, his genes are still in the population. Still, he'd surely qualify for an "honourable mention", which is prestigious in itself.
    Apparently a coronavirus party is a thing now in the US. Someone tests positive and has very mild symptoms, so they invite all their dumbest friends over to celebrate.

    He probably had a really good time at that party too. Laughing about what a hoax it all was, all those supposedly dead people who really just had a 'flu, and oh geez why is my throat sore all of a sudden...
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  33. #1083
    Just went outside for a smoke, saw a fucking comet. I had no idea, so I came inside to google it, and sure enough it's a fucking comet.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  34. #1084
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Just went outside for a smoke, saw a fucking comet. I had no idea, so I came inside to google it, and sure enough it's a fucking comet.
    Highest visibility should be towards mid-end of July. Pretty cool.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  35. #1085
    I'm pretty sure it's the first time I've seen a comet. I remember Halley's comet in the 80's, but I don't recall actually seeing it. And all I can remember about the Hale-Bopp comet was the mass suicide.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  36. #1086
    I must have seen the Hale-Bopp comet, it was in the sky for 18 months.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  37. #1087
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  38. #1088
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  39. #1089
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  40. #1090
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    COVID lab in training. In tests conducted by the university of Helsinki the dogs are cheaper, faster and more reliable than viral tests. And of course they're not given funding, so looks like it'll just remain a curiosity.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  41. #1091
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    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  42. #1092
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Dog is black - will get stopped by cops before he can smell anything.

    Edit: sorry wrong post
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 08-14-2020 at 05:04 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  43. #1093
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post


    COVID lab in training. In tests conducted by the university of Helsinki the dogs are cheaper, faster and more reliable than viral tests. And of course they're not given funding, so looks like it'll just remain a curiosity.
    Dog is black - will get stopped by cops before he can smell anything.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  44. #1094
    Well there's a fucking surprise. College students not following social distancing. Who could have predicted that?

    https://twitter.com/r_cutshall/statu...22402985287687

    Meanwhile our uni is planning to stick it's head in the sand and go ahead with face-to-coughing-face teaching. "It won't happen here! Our kids will behave like responsible adults!"
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  45. #1095
    Covid-sniffing dogs now on duty at Helsinki airport.

    https://twitter.com/AmeshAA/status/1308734907695484928
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  46. #1096
    In other news, our uni has now decided to move to online teaching for classes >100. I suspect by my first lecture Oct. 1st we'll be entirely online.

    How is your uni dealing with it Mojo?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  47. #1097
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    We're all over the place.
    A normal sized classroom cannot have more than 13 people in it, 12 students and 1 teacher. A normal size class has ~20 students.
    Since this is obviously a problem, all classrooms (I know of) now have cameras and microphones in them to facilitate every lecture being live-cast on zoom, and recorded using the zoom "record meeting" function. These videos are made available online to students in the class.
    The amphitheater style lecture halls can hold up to about 20 students, but they're intended to hold hundreds of students, and there are less than 10 large lecture halls on the campus.
    Students are told that they are expected to only attend some classes in person and to attend some classes online, but I haven't seen any university-wide instructions on how to divide up who gets to do what on any given day.


    The intro physics group is doing all classes online, with no in-person classes. All my demos are done by YouTube videos this semester. I'm more of a video director than a physicist for now. I don't speak in any of the videos, as the professors are speaking over them in their online lectures.

    Link to my YouTube page.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChQ...Xc-5MAw/videos
    Let me know if that doesn't work.
    I haven't shared them with you guys 'till now because I'm not talking in them / not explaining anything.


    We're only in the 2nd week of classes for this semester, and who knows what happens if the campus becomes a COVID hot spot.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  48. #1098
    Yeah our overall system is pretty chaotic and complicated too. I won't bore you with the details (and they change from day to day), but the College is also being pretty noncommital on what would lead them to sending everyone home and going to fully online. Gotta keep those residence fees coming in!
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  49. #1099
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    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54296223

    So over 80% of those hospitalized get lasting effects, regardless or contraindications, age etc.

    It annoys me that the media here is fixated on reporting confirmed infections and potential exposures. Deaths and hospitalizations should be the main metric.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  50. #1100
    Definitely, and excess deaths more specifically, and the overall trends (up or down) even better.

    The problem is the case numbers depend on the number of tests being done. E.g., in the Spring they were missing a lot of cases, but now they're missing much fewer. So while cases are going up dramatically, deaths are still fairly low, which makes people more complacent imo.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  51. #1101
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    I'd think the fact that there are refrigeration trailers in alleys behind hospitals because the morgues are overflowing with dead bodies would be enough to get regular attention by any news agency, but alas... that's not the world I actually live in.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  52. #1102
    So Coco, what has been the gov't response in Finland to cases going up lately? Did you close the bars an hour earlier too, to squash the virus?

    What about in Austria, Oskar?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  53. #1103
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    Exactly that, bars need to close a bit earlier, stricter restrictions on seating for customers, mask recommendations, that's about it. The majority of the time they're bickering about who screwed up what during spring.

    About a week ago they did announce that they're in the process of creating a plan for handling it, makes you wonder a bit what they've been up to the past 6 months.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  54. #1104
    Hmm, interesting. You aren't exactly getting hammered by it the way we are, so not having a plan seems less egregious (though not ideal obv). We did get hammered, are by all appearances about to get hammered again, and there still isn't a clear plan. A lot of announcements and pronouncements, a lot of half-measures, but no working TTI to speak of, and no apparent endgame except pray for a vaccine or a covid-busting meteorite.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  55. #1105
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    Beats the US plan to just pray for Jesus to end the 'rona.

    A covid-busting meteorite has a better chance of working is all I'm saying.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  56. #1106
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    Our situation is by no means dire yet, but that's the beauty of exponential growth, it soon might be. At this rate 700 daily new cases by november, 100 000 by january.



    That's weekly infection rate from september 1st.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  57. #1107
    Not sure what this is all about, but sounds like a plan

    https://twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/s...60903983579137
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  58. #1108
    Just because the building is burning down and your hair is on fire doesn't mean we can ignore social distancing!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-54551789
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  59. #1109
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Just because the building is burning down and your hair is on fire doesn't mean we can ignore social distancing!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-54551789
    Couldn't really get more of a mixed message than being told to wait in your room for 1 minute, then proceed to a refuge space (sounds like the refuge space is still inside the building from the language, but it's not clear), then call campus security and ask them if the building's really on fire.

    Only to have someone from admin tell a reporter
    "All students are required to undertake a mandatory fire safety induction and this clearly states that all students should evacuate the building immediately, meeting at the designated fire assembly point."
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  60. #1110
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    this clearly states
    I think what they meant by that was "this NOW clearly states (after we got straightened out by the fire dept. and our lawyers)... "

    Further down, they could add:

    "However, we definitely don't apologise for this major fuckup because we're too embarrassed to own it. So instead we'll pretend it never happened. We learned this PR tactic from the gov't, so suck it everyone."
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  61. #1111
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I see the conundrum. You have to have fire drills so that people can physically learn what to do and where to go and what path to take if there is a fire in advance of there being an actual fire. The statistics on this are perfectly clear. Having practiced a plan of action in the event of a fire saves lives.

    But during a pandemic, having the drill is also risking lives.

    They should figure out a way to have rolling fire drills. Have different parts of the building practice fire drills, and stagger them to allow for social distancing during the drills.

    I'm confident there's a way to get everyone to practice the fire drill in a safe way. The "group" part of the fire drill is not too relevant, anyway.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  62. #1112
    Just make sure everyone knows it's a fire drill, encourage everyone who is not isolating to take part for their own good, while reassuring those who are isolating that there's no actual fire.

    Can I get paid for that idea please? Because there's some fucking idiots getting paid to be stupid, it seems.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #1113
    Yup. If the whole idea of a fire drill is to teach people what to do if there's a fire, then telling some of them to sit tight for a minute isn't much of a drill.

    To give the uni health and safety guys the benefit of the doubt though, it was probably one of a million little decisions and contingency plans they've had to deal with since the whole covid thing started, so maybe not surprising they didn't have time to think it entirely though.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  64. #1114
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Thing is regulations usually dictate how often fire drills need to be done, with no clauses for covid pandemics. You also definitely do not want people to think "is this another drill? are we supposed to leave?" when the alarms go off.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  65. #1115
    I mean, fuck stupid people. If you hear a fire alarm, and you don't know there's a drill, then you treat it like it isn't a drill. That's what most people do. The 1% who don't, well let's hope the day it's not a drill they realise before it's too late. If not, well done, you won a Darwin award.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  66. #1116
    Fucking Germans avoiding germs like this.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  67. #1117
    I reckon it might have something to do with their sexual obsession with shit. Strong immune systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  68. #1118
    I kinda get wanting to go out one last time while you still can, but how much fun is it to drink outside in 10C weather?

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  69. #1119
    Depends how good the music is.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  70. #1120
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Depends how good the music is.

    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  71. #1121
    Not sure if this belongs here or in the #MEGA thread, but yeah.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-54590248
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  72. #1122
    I was reading this thread from the bottom up, so I thought all this talk about fire drills was just a really over-drawn, tortured metaphor.

    Also: hi, folks.
  73. #1123
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Viva!!!


    How you doing, sir?
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.

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