01-23-2018 07:58 PM
#76
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01-23-2018 08:04 PM
#77
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Ah. |
01-23-2018 08:34 PM
#78
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You might be on to something. Maybe you should write a letter to the Pope suggesting that he let Richard Dawkins give the Easter sermon in vatican square this year. |
01-23-2018 08:48 PM
#79
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There's some truth in that. |
01-23-2018 09:00 PM
#80
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There's more than some truth to it. Surround yourself with good people, fuck those that aren't. It doesn't matter if you share dna with them or not. |
Last edited by Savy; 01-23-2018 at 09:03 PM. | |
01-23-2018 09:12 PM
#81
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If your family sucks, sure, you're probably better off discarding them. |
01-23-2018 10:02 PM
#82
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Maybe this is one good way of looking at it: |
01-24-2018 06:14 AM
#83
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Wasn't the hare and the tortoise one of his? Load of bollocks. What's the moral of that story? Don't go to sleep a few meters from the end of the race just because you're miles ahead? I tell you what, anyone who needs to learn that lesson should learn the fucking hard way instead of being taught about a race between two poorly matched animals. | |
Last edited by OngBonga; 01-24-2018 at 06:28 AM. | |
01-24-2018 06:26 AM
#84
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01-24-2018 07:56 AM
#85
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I thought the moral of that story was "slow and steady wins the race". In other words, don't be discouraged at a lack of immediate success. Keep grinding, stick to the plan, one step at a time, don't worry about what other people are doing, etc etc etc. |
Last edited by BananaStand; 01-24-2018 at 08:01 AM. | |
01-24-2018 09:02 AM
#86
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01-24-2018 11:39 AM
#87
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The hare counts his chickens before they hatch. That's sleeping near the finish line. |
01-24-2018 11:51 AM
#88
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The hare's hubris made him a loser. The tortoise's perseverance made him a winner. | |
01-24-2018 12:33 PM
#89
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01-24-2018 12:34 PM
#90
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01-24-2018 12:37 PM
#91
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01-24-2018 12:38 PM
#92
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Anyway, this could be an interesting topic if you could at least give a proper hypothetical, Wuf. If you can't give a real life example for what you talked about in OP, there's no reason to talk about it. | |
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01-24-2018 12:39 PM
#93
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01-24-2018 12:45 PM
#94
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wtf... | |
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01-24-2018 12:53 PM
#95
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01-24-2018 12:53 PM
#96
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01-24-2018 12:54 PM
#97
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01-24-2018 12:55 PM
#98
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01-24-2018 12:57 PM
#99
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So can you give me a real world example or not? | |
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01-24-2018 01:09 PM
#100
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I think it's pretty safe to assume that you won't give me an example because you can't think of one that you can't demolish yourself. At this point you can just concede the point. This is the option Jordan Peterson doesn't tell you about. | |
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01-24-2018 01:12 PM
#101
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You CAN convey the solution to the problem through logic, but that's different than if the person conveyed to would be persuaded by it. |
01-24-2018 01:14 PM
#102
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01-24-2018 01:18 PM
#103
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Have you considered that the reason they are not persuaded by it is because you could have done a better job explaining it? | |
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01-24-2018 01:22 PM
#104
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I'll give you another specific example: Johnny keeps spitting on his sister. How do we make him stop. | |
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01-24-2018 01:25 PM
#105
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Wife asks do I look fat in these jeans |
01-24-2018 01:42 PM
#106
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Or, he could just hit the husband with the Bible for being such a fucking idiot that he doesn't understand women at a grade 1 level. | |
01-24-2018 01:44 PM
#107
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I would explain to the husband that he should not take questions like that literally and to take a moment to think about what his wife was actually asking. Obviously jeans don't make your ass fat. Donuts made her ass fat and the jeans are a distraction from what she's really asking which is: Do you think I'm attractive? To which you should always answer yes, if you like having her as your wife. If you truly no longer find your wife attractive, this is something you need to bring up more tactfully in a different setting. | |
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01-24-2018 01:46 PM
#108
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01-24-2018 01:46 PM
#109
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That "friend" has less social skill than I do. | |
01-24-2018 01:49 PM
#110
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01-24-2018 01:49 PM
#111
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01-24-2018 01:55 PM
#112
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Even if the ONLY benefit of religion is that some Christians are less likely to be ass holes for a few hours on a Sunday, that's fine with me. | |
01-24-2018 02:06 PM
#113
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There are some really good examples where religion can be a great stepping stone. Ayan Hirsi Ali said in her biography that converting to christianity did help her on her way from being a devout muslim to becoming an atheist. General Butt Naked - notorious for killing children and drinking their blood before going into battle has converted to christianity and is now a preacher converting other people from tribal religions... how much of this is to escape getting brutally murdered is up for debate, but afaik he's no longer murdering children. | |
Last edited by oskar; 01-24-2018 at 02:09 PM.
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01-24-2018 02:27 PM
#114
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If you could actually find a parable from the bible that works here I'd be genuinely impressed. If you can, maybe that's something to tag on as something they can relate to. It's always good to have an analogy the person can relate to, but it's immaterial if that example comes from scripture or the carphone warehouse. | |
Last edited by oskar; 01-24-2018 at 02:33 PM.
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01-24-2018 02:31 PM
#115
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01-24-2018 02:34 PM
#116
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That's not the reason I condone religion. | |
01-24-2018 02:42 PM
#117
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WHAAAAAAATT????? |
Last edited by BananaStand; 01-24-2018 at 02:45 PM. | |
01-24-2018 02:43 PM
#118
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Because they're not relevant. It's like talking about axe murder and my position is that the axe was the murder weapon, and you say: other people have been murdered by things other than an axe! Yeah, I never questioned that. That doesn't make this axe not the murder weapon. | |
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01-24-2018 02:45 PM
#119
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I'll give them that historically it's difficult to argue, because you could say: if there was no religion to keep everyone from murdering each other, EVERYONE WOULD BE DEAD. And while I disagree, it's kinda pointless to argue. I think there's plenty that's wrong about it in present day that you don't have to go back to that... tho I've been guilty of that myself in this thread. | |
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01-24-2018 02:46 PM
#120
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That would be incorporated into a net effect. |
01-24-2018 02:48 PM
#121
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01-24-2018 02:52 PM
#122
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Wuf and Oskar are missing my point a little bit. The main point I'm trying to make isn't to call out the church for one instance of censorship. |
01-24-2018 02:56 PM
#123
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01-24-2018 03:02 PM
#124
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I'm completely on your side, Banana, but it takes a lot of effort to dispute and I just think it's going to side-track the discussion too much. I mentioned the crusades, and then wuf sais they were done in retaliation... well now I can assume he talks about the first one in what... 1090? Where they took back Jerusalem from the islamic invasion. Now first of all I'm not even sure if that's the one he's refering to, and if he is, at that point Jerusalem was under Islamic rule for over 400 years. That would be the equivalent in saying native americans would be right in taking back american main land... 200 years from now. But I don't know nearly enough about that to talk about it in any meaningful way. | |
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01-24-2018 03:13 PM
#125
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A simpler example... |
01-24-2018 03:25 PM
#126
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Unless your name was John van Leiden, in which case you'd claim mystical visions, start a cult, take over Münster, claim you're in direct communication with god and that he wants you to sex all the ladies, declare yourself the King, and then when the actual king has had enough of all that - get disemboweled and hung from the city walls for about fiddy years. | |
Last edited by oskar; 01-24-2018 at 03:29 PM.
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01-24-2018 03:29 PM
#127
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I think I've heard this story before......... |
01-24-2018 03:30 PM
#128
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It's quite the meme. | |
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01-24-2018 04:43 PM
#129
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Then Galileo would have had a happier end of life, I imagine. I dunno. | |
01-24-2018 05:01 PM
#130
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01-24-2018 05:08 PM
#131
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...in America, yes. American religiosity is a blight. | |
01-24-2018 05:12 PM
#132
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A lot of learning in ye olde times was limited to the clergy because they were the only ones who knew how to read and had access to books. Mind you, most of them spent time reading biblical texts and not trying to do science (with some notable exceptions). | |
01-24-2018 05:18 PM
#133
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MMM, you're projecting modern day apologetics to all of history. | |
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01-24-2018 05:19 PM
#134
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01-24-2018 05:33 PM
#135
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Last edited by oskar; 01-24-2018 at 05:43 PM.
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01-24-2018 06:31 PM
#136
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I'm not apologizing for history. I'm not even talking about history aside from the mention of the origin of the Big Bang Theory. | |
01-24-2018 06:40 PM
#137
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01-24-2018 06:42 PM
#138
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01-24-2018 06:43 PM
#139
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http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/op...ion-again.html | |
01-24-2018 06:43 PM
#140
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01-24-2018 06:47 PM
#141
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No, that's not why. | |
01-24-2018 06:48 PM
#142
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That's nice for George, but there are still people arguing that the fossil record can't possibly show the dinosaurs were around 250m years ago because the Earth is only ~5000 years old. This isn't arguing that religion addresses different questions than science, it's arguing that science is wrong because it disagrees with scripture. | |
01-24-2018 06:51 PM
#143
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Again, there are idiots who appropriate religion to affirm their opinions. | |
01-24-2018 06:52 PM
#144
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This is one thing where the evidence is overwhelming and still there are people willing to dispute it (and argue it shouldn't be taught) because it contradicts their religious beliefs. If that isn't religion fucking up progress made by science I don't know what is. | |
01-24-2018 06:56 PM
#145
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But with science, the beliefs being replaced are also based on evidence. It's not like Newton pulled the theory of gravity out of his ass, the way the Bible's theories of many things are. | |
Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-24-2018 at 07:03 PM. | |
01-24-2018 06:58 PM
#146
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Again, idiots and bad actors claiming religion is the reason they're acting a certain way isn't indicative that they are acting that way because of religion. | |
01-24-2018 07:01 PM
#147
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01-24-2018 07:02 PM
#148
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Was that me? I certainly didn't intend on saying that. It's even in the OP title. It's the idea that a moral framework that is adhered to for emotional reasons can be good (can also be bad). Given the natural state of savagery of humankind, it might be on net better to construct those good moral frameworks. |
01-24-2018 07:07 PM
#149
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You think the people in Kansas are not really believers but are just pushing the Bible for some other reason? Come on. | |
Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-24-2018 at 07:13 PM. | |
01-24-2018 07:10 PM
#150
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I just gave an example of a theory based on evidence (Newton), being replaced by a theory that better explained anomalies in that evidence (Einstein). What do you object to about that argument? | |