Christianity could be a higher order way of organizing lives

[BananaStand]

No. What is and isn't killing is objective.
Murder is legally defined, to the point that there are degrees of murder..

Really....we're gonna do this?? You know that the legal distinction only exists for the purposes of meting out justice. That's really not part of this discussion. Even the most staunchly pro-life person isn't using the term "murder" in that context. If they were, then they would be calling for mothers who abort babies to be imprisoned for life as punishment for the premeditated killing of another human being. Yet, they're not. In fact, almost NO ONE thinks that the mother should ever be punished at all, except by "god"

No and no. Not in America.

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure. You don't encounter many rhetorical questions in your profession, do you?

There are many "scientific definitions" of life, and all of them bear some controversy

So? Is there an even slightly credible one that says a plant is alive and a fetus isn't?

If you believe that, then I expect you to be protesting abortion clinics on a regular basis. If you believe there's a building near you where people regularly murder babies and you're not totally bent out of shape over that, then I don't understand your position.

Then you just don't understand my position. I believe there is a building near me where people regular murder babies and I don't fucking care. If people are making practical decisions about how and when to grow their family, that's a good thing. And they shouldn't be stopped because some other people think it might offend some imaginary bearded guy floating on a cloud.

I like Louis CK's take on abortion. It's either murder, or it's taking a shit. Either you're killing a baby, or you're simply discarding an unwanted thing that was in your body.

That's funny, but you really don't have to choose. It can be both

[MadMojoMonkey]

Really....we're gonna do this??

I'm not "doing" anything but pointing out some definitions, and answering your questions.

You don't encounter many rhetorical questions in your profession, do you?

Talk less trash and you'll be more comfortable with being taken seriously.

So? Is there an even slightly credible one that says a plant is alive and a fetus isn't?

I'm not even remotely pretending that you're interested in my answer, so I'll just remind you that Google is your friend.

Then you just don't understand my position. I believe there is a building near me where people regular murder babies and I don't fucking care. If people are making practical decisions about how and when to grow their family, that's a good thing. And they shouldn't be stopped because some other people think it might offend some imaginary bearded guy floating on a cloud.

Your use of the word murder in this context is hyperbole. It obfuscates your position, by an appeal to visceral emotions.
Unless, that is, if you're OK with murder in general, and the fact that some people murder babies is a moot point.

That's funny, but you really don't have to choose. It can be both

No. You can insist that killing and murder are synonyms, but that doesn't make it true.

[BananaStand]

I'm not "doing" anything but pointing out some definitions, and answering your questions.

Mmmmm hmmmm

Talk less trash and you'll be more comfortable with being taken seriously.

Uh huh

I'm not even remotely pretending that you're interested in my answer, so I'll just remind you that Google is your friend.

I'll take that as a "no"

Your use of the word murder in this context is hyperbole.

It's not "my" use of the word. Ong brought it up originally by citing the extreme pro-life voices who claim "Abortion is murder". THEIR use of the word is hyperbole. This is obvious, as I've explained, by their lack of a call for mothers to be tried and sentenced in the same manner as a killer.

My subsequent post maintained the hyperbolic context of the word, because it doesn't really do anything to diminish my actual point. Keeping vocabulary consistent aids communication. Playing Dictionary-man derails it.

It obfuscates your position the position held by extreme pro-life voices, by an appeal to visceral emotions.

Fixed your post. And all you're doing here is reiterating my original point, from post #196. The debate really has nothing to do with what is murder and what isn't. Saying "it's not legally murder" has never been a compelling argument for abortion. What the debate hinges on, is bodily autonomy.

Unless, that is, if you're OK with murder in general, and the fact that some people murder babies is a moot point

Yeah, that's it. Murder is great. Sheesh.

No. You can insist that killing and murder are synonyms, but that doesn't make it true.

I made no such insistence. The definition of the word murder was bent by pro-life extremists. I see no need to correct that if I can refute the argument anyway. Vocab-nazism doesn't really help the flow of discourse.