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	So ok if I tie my shoes the normal way i first pass the right lace over the left to make the hitch part, then I make the bow in the left lace, draw the right lace OVER the loop and my thumb, then pull the second bow out through the hole where my thumb is, pull my thumb out with the bow and pull the knot tight.
		
			
			
				
					  Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey   The trouble is that this is a doubly slipped  square knot, but if you switch which loose end is forward and backward  when you set up for the final pull to create and cinch the knot, then  you have a doubly slipped granny knot.  They look basically the same  when you're done, but the granny knot is more prone to loosening.
 
 You're saying a retard would do that with one shoe but replace the OVER movement with an UNDER movement on the other shoe? And then spend the next thirty-odd years wondering why one lace never stays tied up?
 
 I would pay to see that.
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