Operation: To Simply Get Better!

Being in the 2NL zone this week, I'll tell you how I'd play this hand (right or wrong).
Pre - same.
Flop - cbet is player dependent. If I don't have any info on him, I cbet 20 cents.
Turn - as played, cbet 20 cents (18's so close I don't think it matters).
River - check call. I tend to wimp out in these spots because the range on these guys is so ridiculous and they'll pay way too much all along to try to hit a draw. I'd call anything up to about 60 cents here against most opponents.

Originally Posted by Kijjo

Being in the 2NL zone this week, I'll tell you how I'd play this hand (right or wrong).
Pre - same.
Flop - cbet is player dependent. If I don't have any info on him, I cbet 20 cents.
Turn - as played, cbet 20 cents (18's so close I don't think it matters).
River - check call. I tend to wimp out in these spots because the range on these guys is so ridiculous and they'll pay way too much all along to try to hit a draw. I'd call anything up to about 60 cents here against most opponents.

Yeah, agreed here. It turned out he hit his straight on the river. Betting the flop may have prevented that.

read my post about the river and think about the difference in the two approaches

Originally Posted by Keith_MM

read my post about the river and think about the difference in the two approaches

Sorry Keith, must have missed your comment. But if you look at his range, I dont think a river bet is getting called with much worse here. If he had that wierd draw then he just hit it. If he was calling me down with trip 8s I am beat. J10 has me beat, and I doubt any air would have gotten this far. The only thing I am beating that may call is a worse Q, like Q7, and even then id be surprised if they called. I think c/c is the best choice.

AQ Hand

c/c this river is pretty bad here. The reason for this is that like you said yourself, there is likely very little air left in his range at this point. Therefore, he just can't have very many bluffs when he bets this river. So his betting range will have AQ crushed since he wont be betting worse Qs or any other worse hands for value. He can have missed clubs but I don't think that makes up enough combos to make c/c the river +EV especially if you don't have a read that he bluffs these. Also, people will be in general far less inclined to bluff busted flush draws multiway. There are probably more random Js than club,club combos in their betting ranges by far.

If you still want to c/c this river, make me a range of hands that one of them bets here that you have sufficient equity to call say a pot sized bet against. I don't think you'll be able to put very many weak hands in his range at all compared to all the combos of 8s and Js.

I would go ahead and block bet this river in order to induce a call from Qx or whatever showdown value types hands he'll be checking back if you check; fish can't resist good odds with top pair on the river very often.

I think c/f this river is easily better than c/c and I wouldn't mind this at all if you had a read that the guy wasn't stationy and would fold all worse hands to a bet. This being 2NL though where people wont be folding top pair too often I much prefer betting.

As for your bet sizing. Bet the turn a little harder. If they're going to call with weaker Qs and draws, they're goiung to call a pot sized bet just as often so grab more value from them and make them make an even bigger mistake to call with a random draw.

Hope this helps.