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  1. #1

    Default Operation: Beginner to Master

    I'm fairly new to FTR, but anyone who goes into the "Beginners Circle" has probably seen me around lately. Feel free to skip to my goals if that's all you want to know, but here's a little bit about myself:

    I'm 21 years old. I'm a full-time business student and I have a part-time job on the weekends. I've been pretty broke lately cause I went on a spending spree for the last two years and 3/4 of my income now goes to paying off credit cards, car insurance and gas. I've played poker for the past 5 years on and off, but I've never got into studying or learning the fundamentals of poker. I would just play with friends or deposit $20 at a time on PartyPoker and go broke after an hour of fun at $25NL.

    About three weeks back, I ran into an old friend of mine who I haven't seen in years and he told me that he was raking in dough playing online poker. Another acquaintance of mine was also making tons of money from it, but he would donate most of his winnings (he has rich parents... the bastard.) Anyways, these two guys inspired me to start studying the rudiments of this magnificent game. I'm highly competitive and so I thought to myself "If these guys can do it, so can I!". And so it began...

    I bought my first poker book, Online Poker by Doyle Brunson, the day I was leaving for a business trip to Las Vegas. I finished reading it on the flight and didn't really learn anything new, so I went and bought Super System by Doyle Brunson when I reached McCarran International. I was able to read a bit of it before I had reached home and I was now going to start my journey in (educated) online poker.

    I initially deposited $50 on Full Tilt and started playing $10NL. I went up and down, but ended up being +$30 at the end of the night. I started googling something (I can't remember it now) and came across FTR. The more I went through it, the more I was shocked at how much information was on this amazing site. I started reading all the articles in the Beginner's Guide and started to peruse the forums. On February 28th, I decided to become an active member in the FTR community, as I believed that books, a tracker, and a high involvement in these forums would be all I needed to succeed (although now I'm considering coaching as well in the future). I started a blog (not on FTR because I didn't have 500 posts) to log anything I learned that day, to take notes on the books I was reading, etc. I haven't had much motivation to keep it updated lately cause of school work and a lack of readership, but I thought that if I was double entering stuff on here and there, I might actually manage to keep both up to date.

    Anyways, my goals are pretty simple, however, achieving them will not be. I am fully prepared for the journey ahead. I must remind you that I am starting off as a pretty big noob, so if I ever say something that's wrong, please correct me. I also have a hectic schedule, so I may miss out on posting everyday, but the goal is to post 5 days/week. I will update more specific goals once I get to each particular phase.

    Phase 1: Beginner to Rookie

    - Learn the basics of poker lingo, odds, and tracker stats so that I can fully partake in discussions of hands, etc.
    - Learn the fundamentals to decision making (if you should bet/raise/fold, how much you should raise, etc.)
    - Learn the ins and outs of PokerTracker to improve my self-analysis.
    - Get rid of the blatantly obvious and beginner leaks that I currently have.
    - Go from a BR of $50 to $200, progressing from $2NL to $5NL and reaching the goal of $10NL.
    - Finish reading Theory of Poker, Super System and one more book before I move up to Phase 2.
    - Become fluent in micro stakes.

    Phase 2: Rookie to Intermediate

    - Master micro stakes, then learn some more advanced techniques to improve my game to be able to compete at low stakes.
    - Start getting subscriptions to sites with videos, and tons of resources.
    - Go from a BR of $200 to $1,500, progressing from $10NL to the goal of $50NL.

    Phase 3: Intermediate to Pro

    - Master low stakes. Get some professional coaching to improve my game to be able to compete at mid stakes.
    - Begin to withdraw some BR to fund coaching, training, etc. (Or if I'm really broke )
    - Go from a BR of $1,500 to $8,000, progressing from $50NL to the goal of $200NL.

    Phase 4: Pro to Master

    - Master mid stakes. Start outputting my own material in the form of essays and threads to start helping newbies and to master all facets of no-limit hold'em.
    - Start withdrawing weekly winnings!

    EDIT***This is my new BR plan:

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow
    When I haz $100, play 5nl. (20 buy-ins)
    When I haz $250, play 10nl. (25 buy-ins)
    When I haz $750, play 25nl. (30 buy-ins)
    When I haz $1750, play 50nl. (35 buy-ins)
    When I haz $4000, play 100nl. (40 buy-ins)
    When I haz $10000, play 200nl. (50 buy-ins)
    I have no strict timeline to reach each phase, because I don't believe any type of education and mastery should be rushed. Even if I reach the noted bankroll, I don't think I should immediately go up in stakes if I don't feel ready to.

    I'll be posting notes that I take when I read materials, hands of interest, tracking charts etc. Please feel free to give me feedback. Thanks for reading!
    Last edited by xpaand; 05-18-2010 at 02:47 AM.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  2. #2
    BooG690's Avatar
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    Welcome brotha. Glad to see you started an OP (especially since you told me about this thing and I got the idea from you!). Good luck on your journey...we basically started at the same time and we're about the same age so I definitely relate to you.

    I don't know if you checked the Noob HU Tournament thread yet, but I left you some notes about making the switch to PokerStars. I was on FTP at first also...but I couldn't beat the rake (well, I did, but I found it unnecessary). I like the rewards better on FTP but I won't really be able to start getting them until I graduate in levels anyway. I plan to move back to FTP once I get up to 25NL or 50NL. Anyway, good luck. Hope to see a consistent post from you!
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  3. #3
    lockpull's Avatar
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    GL on your goals. Since we are both starting noobs I will be following this one closley.


    Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
  4. #4
    Thanks for the quick support guys. Means a lot. I'm pretty sure I'll make a deposit at PS on my next paycheck, assuming I have enough left over to justify it lol. I hate being a student.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  5. #5

    Default From my blog...

    These are some relevant posts that I made in my blog (http://xpaand.blogspot.com)

    Post #1 - Background Poker Knowledge

    My poker knowledge is pretty limited. I have basic strategy down, but I have yet to learn much technical stuff. The only book I've read so far is Online Poker by Doyle Brunson. I didn't learn too much from it, as 90% of the material was very obvious. I recommend it if you just learned the rules of poker, but if you've played a lot of poker, it is pretty much useless.

    Currently, I am reading a book called Theory of Poker by David Sklansky. I haven't actually started reading it yet, but I want to be able to get through at least the first two chapters by tonight, and I will post what I've learned from it. If you have read it or are in the process of reading it, feel free to discuss topics of interest.

    -----------------------------------

    Post #2 - Bankroll Management and FTR

    I can tell you first hand that this is probably the best advice you'll ever get (unless you're rich as hell and you just don't care about how much money you drown into poker). I have probably lost close to $1000 in my whole life playing No-Limit Hold'em, which isn't bad compared to others. However, if I had applied proper bankroll management, I would have lost $0! Even when I first read about bankroll management, I couldn't bring myself to play at such low micro-stakes ($.01/$.02 at the moment), but the more I played and the more I read at FlopTurnRiver.com, the more I realized that this is the ONLY way to achieve long term success.

    If you have not already, you need to check out FlopTurnRiver.com. This site changed my view of the poker game and community completely. I realized that to be really profitable in the long run, you have to fully submerge yourself into the study of poker. You cannot just read a couple books and expect to make money. You have to apply your knowledge and grind out some experience playing many hands with the knowledge you've gained. If you ever encounter terms or abbreviations that you do not understand, go on FlopTurnRiver.com and check out the Beginner's Guide. Of course, you can also comment to any posts and I will clarify anything you need. And yes, I do realize that the resources on FlopTurnRiver.com are much more abundant than on my puny blog. That is not the point of this blog. The point of this blog is to direct you to abundant resources and to show you examples of how I will approach the task of learning poker so you can learn from my mistakes.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  6. #6
    Good luck xpaand, i'll be following along all the way!
  7. #7

    Default Theory of Poker - Reading Session #1

    This is my first discussion on David Sklansky's "The Theory of Poker". If you are reading it, please state anything you've learned in the comments and feel free to start up a discussion. I'm going to be writing on what I've learned from each chapter. These are my personal notes that I'm sharing with people in case they need it. Do not ask me why I'm just re-iterating, because I learn by rephrasing and taking notes.

    If you do not have a copy of the book, I suggest you go out and buy it, as it is arguably one of the best poker books ever written. Here's a link to the book on Amazon (that's where I bought the book and it was definitely the best price I could find).

    Chapter 1 & Chapter 2 - Nothing too exciting yet. Just basic probability.

    Chapter 3 - Sklansky states "the Fundamental Theorem of Poker" by saying:

    "Every time you play a hand differently from the way you would have played it if you could see all your opponents' cards, they gain; and every time you play your hand the same way you would have played it if you could see all their cards, they lose. Conversely, every time opponents play their hands differently from the way they would have if they could see all your cards, you gain; and every time they play their hands the same way they would have played if they could see all your cards, you lose."

    Simple enough. He says that the beauty of the theorem is its simplicity and obviousness, but its applications aren't so obvious. For example, if you're on a flush/straight draw after the flop, if the opponent (who has top pair) knew your cards, he would raise your bet to make it unprofitable for you to chase any draws, therefore making you fold. However, if your opponent merely calls your bet, then you gain a cheaper turn, due to his ignorance to what you truly hold (if he's putting you on TPTK for example). And if he folds, then you have gained an enormous amount, as he threw away the best hand.

    Another point that I found to be basic, but interesting is that even if at a certain point you have your opponent beat, you should win the pot right then if you're opponent is getting proper odds and there are still more cards to come. "A pair of kings versus two smaller pair needs very short odds to justify a call. Since your opponent would have been correct to call, you gain when you make him fold."

    Since you want your opponent to fold if he is getting sufficient pot odds, the converse holds true as well. If your opponent is getting insufficient pot odds, you want him to call, even if he is on a draw. A good example he uses is as follows: You are on the turn with two other opponents and you have a straight which, at that point, is the nuts. One guy raises all-in with $200, raising the pot to $500. You know that if you re-raised any amount, the second guy (who you are pretty sure has two pair) would fold. If you call the $200, there would be about $700 in the pot, giving him 7-to-2 odds to call $200 with his two pair. The odds of him landing a full house on the river, and consequently beating your hand is 10-to-1. "Therefore, if he knew that [you] had a straight, it would be incorrect for him to take 7-to-2 odds on a 10-to-1 shot." So, the correct play would be to call the $200 so that he calls you instead of folding. Even if he makes a full house and beats you on that hand, in the long run, you will make a profit. "Many people argued I had been wrong to let him in rather than raise him out, but in fact they are wrong. I had to give him a chance to make a mistake, which he did, because whenever my opponent makes a mistake, I gain in the long run."

    Sklansky also talks about multi-pots and how sometimes it is beneficial for one or more of the opponents to play as if they knew what you were holding. In his example, you have a 30% chance of winning the pot, A has a 50% chance of winning the pot and B has a 20% chance of winning the pot. You wouldn't mind if A raised your bet to force B out of the pot, since that increases your chances to 40% and his to 60%. Both players in this scenario have gained by C's fold.

    That's about all for Chapter 3. I'll try my best to post one on Chapter 4 by tomorrow. I don't know if I'll be playing any hands tonight or tomorrow night since I have plans, but I'll try my best to get some kind of post in.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  8. #8
    Just watched a couple of videos on Full Tilt Poker Academy and took some notes:

    5 Common Leaks by Phil Gordon

    1) Limping instead of raising - either raise or fold PF ALWAYS by the same amount

    Reasons to raise PF:
    - Limit competition
    - Control the betting
    - Make opponents define their hand strength
    - Conceal your own hand strength
    - Steal the blinds

    Keep ALL PF raises the same to conceal strength

    *** Watch Lederer's "How We Bet Video"

    2) Sklansky's Gap Concept - You should be more willing to raise with a particular hand than youare willing to call with it.

    3) Don't play dominated hands. Throw away those hands if there's a raise.

    4) Don't overvalue suited hands. They only add 3% to the expectation of the hand.

    5) Check medium strength hands on the river. [TPTK, etc.]

    Reasons:
    - Get them to bluff and call them if you feel they didn't hit a draw
    - Opponent may check a better hand

    *** Bet your strong and weak hands.
    - If your opponent shows ANY sign of weakness, bet your weak hands to steal the pot.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  9. #9
    The Power of Position by Bill Edler

    1) Three reasons why position is power:
    a) In early position, you'll fold the best hand.
    b) Make more with winning hands in late position.
    c) Lose less with a losing hand in late position.

    (This is due to information gained by playing in late position)

    2) Playing position PF

    Andy Bloch says:
    - In early position, only 11% of hands can be played profitably.
    - In late position, 45% of hands can be played profitably.

    3) Playing position Post Flop

    - In position, you can control the size of the pot
    --- You can keep pots small with marginal hands.
    --- You can enlargen pots with monster hands.

    ------------------------------

    Obviously very basic stuff without much mathematical background, but I found it to be a useful reminder for basics.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  10. #10

    Default I'm back and I'm refocused and ready

    So I took a break from poker so that I could finish off the school year with some good marks. Now that I'm back, I'm feeling very good. I'm no longer playing to get money ASAP, as I'm no longer broke and have an abundance of disposable income. This means that I'll be more patient and willing to spend more time reviewing and learning, rather than playing and playing and playing.

    I've decided to switch from Full Tilt to Poker Stars (I didn't put the rakeback bonus code for FT when I signed up). I've also decided to get a membership at Grinderschool.com to start studying with videos. Anyways, I'll be updating my OP from now on and once I reach $5NL, I'll get Hold'em Manager and start posting reports and graphs.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  11. #11
    *sigh* I wish I had a lot of free time to just go all out and study poker as much as possible. I want to improve my game a lot but it's hard managing a busy workout schedule, work, a girlfriend and poker. That and I've been having a rough streak that seems to be never ending. At times, I know what I'm doing is right, but I start thinking about possible errors when there weren't any; just poor luck. I was warned of this however, and I won't let it discourage me too much. I'm just gonna stick through it, keep making smart decisions and keep grinding until I reach the next limit.

    I'm gonna continue reading Theory of Poker and watch videos on here. When I'm through with the videos on FTR, I'm gonna get my membership at Grinderschool.com and raid their videos. I also decided to deposit $150 into Poker Stars and start at $5NL. Maybe I'll see you guys at the tables.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  12. #12
    BooG690's Avatar
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    Glad to see you're back buddy. I remember we started at around the same time...but then you just vanished!

    Good job on switching to Pokerstars...the rake is less aggressive on the Stars.

    And post some hands up. Let us help you understand if you are making the right decisions...and give you an understanding as to WHY it was a weak or strong play by you (remember, the WHY is the most important thing).

    Don't get discouraged buddy. I was where you are about a month ago (and I'm 100% positive you'd be up here too if it wasn't for school, EW! [though I will be taking all of next week off for finals as well]). Remember to put the practice in as that is real important (there's a post on the BC about that). Don't play out of your bankroll and always make the right decision based on your opponent's range. Good luck!
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  13. #13
    Quick thoughts on what I need to improve on:

    [ ] Pay closer attention to each individual game and the players within them.
    [ ] Get better at reviewing 'last hands' and taking notes quickly enough to not interfere with the game at hand.
    [ ] Think in terms of big blinds and buy-ins instead of thinking in real money terms (relevant only at microstakes).
    [ ] Get better at hand reading.
    [ ] GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE MICROSTAKES
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  14. #14
    What was the correct play on the flop? Check?

    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP1 ($7.20)
    MP2 ($0.17)
    MP3 ($4.95)
    CO ($5.67)
    Button ($5.46)
    Hero (SB) ($7.21)
    BB ($5.69)
    UTG ($6.31)
    UTG+1 ($2.32)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K
    1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.05, 1 fold, MP2 bets $0.15, 2 folds, Button calls $0.15, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.45, MP2 calls $0.02 (All-In), 1 fold

    Flop: ($1.37) 8, Q, Q (3 players, 1 all-in)
    Hero bets $0.50, UTG+1 raises to $1.82 (All-In), Hero calls $1.32

    Turn: ($5.01) 3 (3 players, 2 all-in)

    River: ($5.01) 7 (3 players, 2 all-in)

    Total pot: $5.01 | Rake: $0.33
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  15. #15
    BooG690's Avatar
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    Your bet-sizing is off here. You are betting 50 cents into $1.37 pot with a possible flush draw. He is getting a little worse than 4-1 odds to chase his draw (with implied odds basically giving him the correct odds to call). Therefore, villain is not making a mistake by calling and we do not win unless we force our opponent's to make mistakes. Again, we gain when we cause our opponent's to make mistakes. I would personally bet about $1.05-$1.10 on the flop. I like to bet about 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot with a potential flush draw out there.

    Good luck kind sir and keep up the good work!
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  16. #16
    BooG690's Avatar
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    Your bet-sizing is off here. You are betting 50 cents into $1.37 pot with a possible flush draw. He is getting a little worse than 4-1 odds to chase his draw (with implied odds basically giving him the correct odds to call). Therefore, villain is not making a mistake by calling and we do not win unless we force our opponent's to make mistakes. Again, we gain when we cause our opponent's to make mistakes. I would personally bet about $1.05-$1.10 on the flop. I like to bet about 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot with a potential flush draw out there.

    Good luck kind sir and keep up the good work!
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  17. #17
    Finally deposited money onto Poker Stars (and gone fully broke on Full Tilt with the $5 I had left in it). I've watched about 8 videos on GrinderSchool now and although I haven't learned much, the basic foundations of good poker has been ground into me. I've decided that I'm gonna spend about 8 hours / day Sunday - Wednesday studying poker, treating it like a (fun) full time job.

    So I feel like I'm getting a fresh start. My bankroll is at $150, rolled for $5NL. I'm gonna use up the Poker Tracker trial which will start today. Two months from now, I'll do the 2 week trial of Hold'em Manager and then purchase whichever one I prefer. If you're on Poker Stars, say hi if you see me! My screen name is Xpaand.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  18. #18
    lockpull's Avatar
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    GL to you. I am still bouncing back and forth between 5NL and 10NL so I will prob see you on there.

    FWIW, I really enjoyed, and watched multiple times, Spenda's-Codered's-Jym's. The other ones are good of course but these guys videos really seemed to help with my main trouble spots.


    Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
  19. #19
    You're sitting on a $5NL table with 16% players/flop - table select better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carroters
    Take it Doyle, take it!
  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamThePirate
    You're sitting on a $5NL table with 16% players/flop - table select better.
    ?? I think my table stats changed while I was in it. I always order by %P/F, then look for high avg pots and low hand/hr. I found a fish and I farmed the shit out of him!
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by lockpull
    GL to you. I am still bouncing back and forth between 5NL and 10NL so I will prob see you on there.

    FWIW, I really enjoyed, and watched multiple times, Spenda's-Codered's-Jym's. The other ones are good of course but these guys videos really seemed to help with my main trouble spots.
    Sweet. We should get that sweat sesh going soon. I really enjoy Spenda and Jym's videos. Haha Jyms actually sounds like a buff mofo.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by lockpull
    GL to you. I am still bouncing back and forth between 5NL and 10NL so I will prob see you on there.

    FWIW, I really enjoyed, and watched multiple times, Spenda's-Codered's-Jym's. The other ones are good of course but these guys videos really seemed to help with my main trouble spots.
    Sweet. We should get that sweat sesh going soon. I really enjoy Spenda and Jym's videos. Haha Jyms actually sounds like a buff mofo.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  23. #23
    lockpull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpaand
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamThePirate
    You're sitting on a $5NL table with 16% players/flop - table select better.
    ?? I think my table stats changed while I was in it. I always order by %P/F, then look for high avg pots and low hand/hr. I found a fish and I farmed the shit out of him!
    I was talking to someone about leaving tables and when to move.... they said they had found that a table (on average) has about a 30-45 min shelf life online before it becomes a different table and time to move. And maybe it's just me (as I seem to be the common denomintor) but every table 35%+ goes down to about 10-15% after me being there more than 40 minutes or so.

    What are you going to be doing tonight around 8pm ET. (not sure what time zone you are in?


    Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
  24. #24
    So my "first" session since I switched to Poker Stars went quite well. At first I went up one buy-in, then went down three buy-ins. I got taken by two fish at one table. I used patience and waiting and stacked both fish back.

    The first hand is what finally got me to where I ended off at. It was nice finally getting my money (and more) back from the fish.

    The second hand is a pocket aces hand that I'm not sure if I played well. Should I have tried a lower bet to extract more value? Or is it the correct play to try to take it early?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    Hero (BB) ($7.99)
    UTG ($3.91)
    UTG+1 ($0.98)
    MP1 ($6.56)
    MP2 ($9.86)
    MP3 ($9.38)
    CO ($4.93)
    Button ($9.57)
    SB ($10)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 2
    2 folds, MP1 calls $0.05, 1 fold, MP3 bets $0.15, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.10, MP1 calls $0.10

    Flop: ($0.47) 3, 2, 3 (3 players)
    Hero bets $0.25, MP1 raises to $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, Hero raises to $0.75, MP1 calls $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25

    Turn: ($2.72) K (3 players)
    Hero bets $1.50, MP1 calls $1.50, 1 fold

    River: ($5.72) 2 (2 players)
    Hero bets $4.16, MP1 calls $4.16 (All-In)

    Total pot: $14.04 | Rake: $0.65


    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    Hero (SB) ($15.02)
    BB ($3.84)
    UTG ($0.81)
    UTG+1 ($4.84)
    MP1 ($9.59)
    MP2 ($7.13)
    CO ($9.50)
    Button ($10)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
    2 folds, MP1 bets $0.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.70, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50

    Flop: ($1.45) 3, 4, 4 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1, 1 fold

    Total pot: $1.45 | Rake: $0.05
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  25. #25
    Whoops forgot to mention that I ended at +$9 for the session.

    This is another hand that I ran into that I could use some feedback on:

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    Hero (UTG) ($15.59)
    UTG+1 ($3.72)
    MP1 ($2.22)
    MP2 ($4.49)
    CO ($9.75)
    Button ($8.40)
    SB ($9.18)
    BB ($10.66)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
    Hero bets $0.25, 4 folds, Button calls $0.25, 2 folds

    Flop: ($0.57) 8, 2, 10 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.35, Button calls $0.35

    Turn: ($1.27) 6 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1, Button calls $1

    River: ($3.27) 3 (2 players)
    Hero bets?
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  26. #26
    lockpull's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Any notes/reads on the guy.... like the Cas??? guy you were playing today that seemed to like to C/R a lot. (I'm stalking you....really just bored at work)

    I like .40 flop (I think they call .40 if they call .35), 1.10-1.20 turn, 2.50-2.75 river and I go ahead and call if he shoves,
    but the way you played it is prob fine too IMO.... maybe $2.25-2.50 on the river.


    Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
  27. #27
    LOL how long were you watching for? I didn't have much of a read on this guy.

    I ended up shoving on the river cause I felt like he was gonna call with a pair of 10's. I should've bet $2.75 in hindsight. Or is a shove a huge risk, considering he could have hit a set.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  28. #28

    Default Grinderschool.com

    So I have to address the fact that I've watched the first 6 micro videos at Grinderschool.com. It has helped my game tremendously and I feel like I already got back my investment in my first session (since I decided to create a fresh start at Poker Stars). In my first session, I was up by a buy-in and then I went down 3 buy-ins (due to some misjudgment, but mostly from two fish in particular). If it wasn't for jyms and spenda's constant repetition of fundamental playing (being happy that you made a +EV play and thinking you made money even if you lost money in that particular hand), I probably would've ended there, going up or down a buy-in.

    However, I realized that the stacks I lost were to fish, and I stuck through with patience to get good cards and v-bet them to their graves. I ended up stacking them both, gaining back what I lost, and I made two more buy-ins from good plays throughout the session.

    I realize now more and more that I have to take out my emotions from playing. I can't get upset that I lost a hand, IF and ONLY IF I played it well. The variance will always be there, and the quicker I can overcome the emotions to the variance and focus harder on expected values, the quicker I'll get out of the micro's.

    I really need to improve on my ability to put people on ranges. If anyone who has gone on Grinderschool knows which video goes in-depth on that topic, let me know.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  29. #29
    good luck on stars , and you can block your name so people can't check how many tables you're playing. The KK i'd probably have bet $1.50 on the river but it depends on what the villains stats were. If he was a station then I'd have gone pot or all in , but more regular player I'd have protected myself against a set or 2 pair a bit while still getting some decent value from his pair type hands
  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_MM
    good luck on stars , and you can block your name so people can't check how many tables you're playing. The KK i'd probably have bet $1.50 on the river but it depends on what the villains stats were. If he was a station then I'd have gone pot or all in , but more regular player I'd have protected myself against a set or 2 pair a bit while still getting some decent value from his pair type hands
    How do you block your name? Oh and I bet too heavy on that river with KK. He folded =(.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  31. #31
    $0.45 on the flop
    pot on turn is now $1.47, bet about $1.15
    pot on river is now $3.77, bet like $2.50 - $3

    imo. you're both deep so trying to get more money in on each street seems like a solid idea. ofc this is without any reads . . .
  32. #32

    Default My first sweat session

    Today I had my first ever sweat session!!! Haha, BooG690 and lockpull sweat'd me. Pretty solid without any huge huge hands. I was negative at the end of the session, however, the decision making was solid. I kept having internet issues so it kept messing me up a bit, but it was ok besides that. Except this one hand when I had JJ and we were pretty sure we had him on the turn and I pressed fold instead of call by accident when he bet $0.21 into a $2 pot......

    Anyways, I'll post a more in-depth summary of our next sweat session. I think we're gonna make this a weekly thing where we rotate who gets sweat'd each time.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  33. #33
    Anything in particular I did wrong/right?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP1 ($3.60)
    MP2 ($3.83)
    CO ($1.26)
    Hero (Button) ($5)
    SB ($2.65)
    BB ($5)
    UTG ($14.35)
    UTG+1 ($6.83)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, J
    5 folds, Hero bets $0.20, SB calls $0.18, 1 fold

    Flop: ($0.45) J, K, J (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $0.25, SB raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.50

    Turn: ($1.95) 10 (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets $1, SB raises to $1.70 (All-In), Hero calls $0.70

    River: ($5.35) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: $5.35 | Rake: $0.25
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  34. #34
    What range do you put this villain on?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    BB ($3.60)
    UTG ($3.83)
    UTG+1 ($1.21)
    Hero (MP1) ($5)
    MP2 ($2.77)
    MP3 ($5.10)
    CO ($4.90)
    Button ($13.93)
    SB ($6.78)

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, Q
    2 folds, Hero bets $0.20, 4 folds, SB calls $0.18, BB calls $0.15

    Flop: ($0.60) 7, 9, 6 (3 players)
    SB checks, BB bets $0.05, Hero raises to $0.60, SB calls $0.60, 1 fold

    Turn: ($1.85) J (2 players)
    SB bets $1.60, Hero raises to $4.20 (All-In), SB calls $2.60

    River: ($10.25) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Total pot: $10.25 | Rake: $0.50
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  35. #35
    So I just had the worst two sessions in a row back to back. I was bitching in the mIRC and I'm glad Spoon got mad at me for it. I realize that I'm bringing too much emotion to the game, which I already knew. But c'mon. Sometimes it gets a little much. It's not the fact that I'm having losing sessions that's bothering me. It's the fact that I haven't been 2 BI's higher than my initial BR yet. I know I'm not playing so well that I should be flying through the $5NL, but I should be breaking even at the very least. I'm not tilting to the point where it's affecting my decision making at all, but it just hurts me inside.

    Anyways, I'm not gonna look at my BR until I hit 10k hands. I'm also starting to get coached by Spoonitnow. First session's on Tuesday. I'm gonna study hard and try to have a couple of winning sessions before then and try to overcome my emotions. I have a couple of hands I want to post, but I gotta go to work, so I'll do it when I get back.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  36. #36
    gl with the coaching xpaand, hope it goes well
    Congratulations, you've won your dick's weight in sweets! Decode the message in the above post to find out how to claim your tic-tac
  37. #37
    Taking the weekend (Thursday - Saturday) off from any poker cause I have work and a lot of plans (long weekend up in Vancouver). I think it'll be a good mini break to start wrapping my head around some more concepts so I can actively apply it to my game. Got my first coaching session with Spoonitnow set up for Tuesday morning, so Monday I'll probably grind away after I get home from work.

    Hope your weekends are going great!
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  38. #38
    Two things I'm gonna focus on for today:

    Leak 1: The pots I win are generally smaller than the pots I lose.
    Leak 1a: This is usually due to getting bluffs called.

    Leak 2: I don't give enough credit for straights when I have trips, top two pair, etc.

    Leak 3: I think I'm too shove happy (but I'm not sure). All I know is that in my last session, I only won 3 out of 12 shoves.

    Interesting thing. I haven't studied the strategy in heads-up s&g's, however, I started playing them and I've won about 5 out of 6. Found that the players are usually very weak and I can vary my strategy depending on their playing style and win. They're usually very willing to shove.

    I'm excited that tomorrow, I'll post the first real meaningful post in a while. Till then...
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  39. #39
    I had the single best day of poker today. I had my first coaching session with Spoonitnow and learned a lot about the fundamentals of betting. I also went up about 8 BI's in an hour this morning playing heads up s&g's. Which made me realize that when I pay close attention to the villain and adapt to his game and try to throw him off his game, I do really well. I think this points out one of my biggest flaws in FR. I don't pay close enough attention to the other players and I DEFINITELY don't try to throw them off their game. I'm gonna start 2-tabling rather than 6. I'm also gonna try to better play against my opponents, rather than their cards.

    Oh and I got accepted to UBC.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  40. #40
    lockpull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    OVERLAND PARK, KS
    Good Job. Keep it up.


    Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
  41. #41
    Coaching by spoon = +++EV for sure dude. I'm going to try and hit him up for it after boot if he's willing to take on a new student. I could definitely use the extra help. I understand a lot of basic concepts, but I'm sure there are some areas where I am also fundamentally weak and can use MASSIVE improvement.

    Have fun, hope to see you ballin' 25nl by the time I get back!
  42. #42
    A few things I wanted to write about:

    1) I decided to spend more time posting in Blogs and Operations, rather than the Beginner's Circle for the time being. I'm trying to focus on my own game, but I would also like to keep in touch with the people who I started talking to regularly. I'm gonna be posting a lot more on my OP with more hand histories and thoughts on poker and life. I don't think many people even read my OP, but that doesn't phase me since this is like my online journal anyways.

    2) I've stepped away from FR for a few days in the past week and I've been playing heads-up S&G's with much success. At first Spoon thought I was on a heater, which I was convinced of when I had my first bad day at heads-up. Then I realized something. The more I focused on my opponent (memorizing his behavior patterns, then adjusting to exploit his tendencies and his moves), the easier I won. The day I spent losing about 8 buy-ins, I was multi-tabling with my girlfriend in the room talking to me. It was stupid, but I'm glad I went through that. Now I pay attention like crazy, taking notes on every hand, and making sure I take a 2 minute break after a long game to remain focused in the following games. I'm up about 20 buy-ins now and I'm almost rolled for $10NL. I decided I'm not going to move up to $10NL until I hit $300. I also decided I'm only gonna play S&G's from now on when I'm at my gf's and I only have her laptop to play with (it's a Mac so I can't use HEM), and I'm gonna play FR 99% of the time I'm on my desktop. This is because I don't think I can make as much money playing HU S&G's as I can in FR in the long run. (If this is a false statement, someone tell me otherwise.)

    2b) I reached my current BR doing HU S&G's, which leaves me wondering whether I should wait to move up until my BR hits $300 via FR play. My "FR BR" is at $140 (-$10). My "HU BR" is at (+$100). What do you guys think?

    3) My first coaching session with Spoon went really well. Learned some fundamental ideas on betting that I believe gave me a more solid mathematical foundation to work with. I already knew the concepts we went over (bluffing, semi-bluffing, drawing, value betting), but not to the degree of understanding that I have now. It's amazing how much it makes mathematical sense by using basic probability to explain those concepts. I haven't started on my homework yet (due to topic 4), but I'll have that done by tomorrow so that I'll be ready for another session next week.

    4) I haven't gotten too many hours of playing done in the past week due to my girlfriend wanting to spend way too much time together (she starts working full-time for the Summer in a couple of weeks) and due to my friends wanting to drink and party everyday. I decided that starting this week, I'm gonna start going to the gym again (I stopped a couple of weeks back due to a minor neck injury), eating super healthy, waking up early and being in a good body and mind state. On my days off, I'm gonna study poker 2 hours in the morning, play for 6-8 hours, then review my hands for 1-2 hours at night. On days I have work, I'm just gonna play 3-4 hours after I get home from work.

    I'm gonna go play some HU S&G's now. For now, I think I'm going to have two effective bankrolls. One for FR and one for HU. I'm not going to create another account, so I'm just gonna approximate how much is allotted to the two games and go on from there. Let me know if you guys think it'd be better to just have one bankroll.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  43. #43
    BooG690's Avatar
    Join Date
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    I am Queens Blvd.
    I DEMAND an update!
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  44. #44
    Vinland's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Canada; the country all tucked away down there...
    yeah man....you have screaming fans here waiting!!

    He did say his gf was not working fulltime until summer so he was probably "busy"...

    Let us know how you're doing!
  45. #45
    Haha, actually I got a raise and took on a huge project at work and so I'm working 50+ hours / week. It's great cause I'm gonna be rich in a couple of months, but it sucks cause it leaves me no time for poker.

    My girlfriend's job just started as well, so she's no longer the bane of poker. Anyways, I'm gonna focus on making money, while studying poker in my free time (which I don't believe will be much).

    I hope you guys are all doing well. I gotta go start getting ready to go to work, but I'll visit everyone's OP real soon. Wish me luck guys!
    Last edited by xpaand; 05-17-2010 at 10:20 PM.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  46. #46

    Default Comeback post

    I feel like I owe some people an apology. Last summer, I talked to a handful of FTR members regularly and many of them went out of their way to help me (spoonitnow, dranger7070, BuFu690 [formerly known as BooG690], lockpull, micro2macro). When school started up in September, I disappeared from the forum due to the lack of time I had and also because my computer exploded. I feel like I should apologize since I could have easily logged on with my gf's computer, the library computer, etc. to tell everyone that I'd be focusing on school, but instead, I just vanished.

    Looking back, I truly regret not continuing the journey I had started and I hope that I will always make time for poker in the future. I feel like I've grown and matured a lot over the past year; my mental state and outlook on life is different and I've come to appreciate the pursuit of education and learning. Last summer I had one of the worst diseases that hindered my growth as a poker player: ego. I was constantly worried about sounding like an idiot, so I didn't ask questions that sounded dumb. The fact is, I AM a beginner (which puts me in a temporary state of idiocy that I need to grind out of) and if I stop myself from asking certain questions, how will I improve? I'll be honest. I'm very superficial, materialistic and I care a lot about what people think of me. I've been working on reducing these qualities for the past year and I've made a lot of progress. I now feel like I can check my ego at the door and finally maximize my potential for learning.

    With that out of the way, a little update to my situation. My work schedule is Fri-Sun 11am - 7pm (Pacific Time), which leaves me with 4 days out of the week to focus on poker (I have to spend Fri-Sun nights with my gf). I've moved up to $10NL and I'm currently playing 2-4 tables of FR on Everest Poker (terrible site btw, just bonus whoring) with a starting bankroll of $200. I just finished reading The Art of Learning, an inspiring book recommended by Spoon that has taught me invaluable lessons and concepts. Next, I'm going to start reading NLHE Theory & Practice and participate in the discussion in the BC. If I could turn $50 into $300 last year when I wasn't maximizing my learning, growth or profitability, I can only imagine what is possible with my new outlook.

    Spoonitnow - I've never met someone so willing to help others. You astonish me with your knowledge of learning, mathematics, poker and your ability to teach is a gift. Keep doing what you do cause you’re the kind of person I aspire to be one day.

    Dranger - Glad you came back in one piece from bootcamp and still managed to move on up. I hope to watch you fluke out in a MTT at 4 in the morning sometime soon

    Boo - It was amazing to see how much you've grown since I stopped playing. You were always a step ahead of me, but now you're a mile ahead. Congrats and I will catch up to you soon.

    Lockpull - I guess you're not around anymore, but I hope you do come back one day so we can push each other to improve.

    Micro - Thanks for always giving your input in my early nooby BC threads. You probably didn't realize it, but you helped me feel comfortable on this site when I was new and nervous.

    Now let's start grindin'.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  47. #47
    BooG690's Avatar
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    I am Queens Blvd.
    I hope you're back for good this time. You and Lockpull were the first two I spoke about poker with. I was upset to see you leave...but welcome the fuck back. Remember, you're just a busto microdonk atm. Ask dumb questions, write dumb shit in IRC/FTR...but learn from these mistakes when you're corrected. Learn from those who've already beaten your stakes and have done the studying. Put the work in, etc. Review sessions, watch videos, read books...learn poker as if it were a class at school. However, this class is fun as hell and allows for its topics to be directly applied & practiced soon after.

    Good luck dude.
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  48. #48
    Thanks dude. Imagine if school was this fun/immediately applicable. I'd be a freaking PhD candidate.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  49. #49
    Nice brah! GL on the grind. Good to see you in IRC all the time.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  50. #50
    Thanks DC! Good luck to you as well. I'm guessing you're almost done grinding $5NL?
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  51. #51
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    North Carolina
    gl
  52. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    gl
    What a fabulous post to start a new page with
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  53. #53
    After my first long intense session since my return, I’ve come across many questions that I should have known the answers to last year. Anyways, with my ego not being a factor anymore, here goes:

    1) Set mining – I realize that it’s very wrong at higher levels to open limp low pp’s, but at low stakes where they don’t really pay attention to that, isn’t it ok? Isn’t it smart as long as I treat it as an adjustment to the players, so it’s not a bad habit I’m forming, but rather a profitable adjustment to $10NL play? Or am I completely wrong to assume that they don’t know I’d only limp low pp’s? (Of course this implies I wouldn't do it if my table at $10NL is adjusted to this play)

    2) Blind stealing – This seems important to me for building awareness of bluff profitability and position, but at the lower levels, bluffing shouldn’t be much of a factor in play. Therefore, unless you have a high number of hands on your tracker and the stats justify a steal, you should avoid it in all cases?

    3) Subquestion – Is it better to try to steal blinds with marginal hands or trash? Marginal hands can flop decent at times while still being easily foldable to a re-raise. Whereas a trash hand serves the same purpose, but with less flops helping. However, I understand how a trash hand with no value is getting a huge value boost as a mere blind stealer, where the marginal hand isn’t getting as much of a boost.

    4) Shoving with AK – Found AK PF play to be a problem area. Not exactly sure when you should shove AKs. Poker Stoving, I found that the highest equity you can get is ~47.8% with the lowest being ~34.1% when heads up against pockets. Against a tight player who will shove 4.5% of his hands PF (AK, AQs, AA-99), my equity is 47.645% and against a looser player who will shove 9.8% of his hands PF (AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, ATs, A9s, KJs, AA-66), my equity is 57.740%. I found that my opponent has to have a PF shoving range of about 5.6% for it to be break even, therefore making it profitable to shove against an opponent who shoves 5.6% or more of his hands PF (even higher if it’s unsuited). However, when in play, how do I determine if he’s shoving 5.6% or more of his hands and is there a better way to think about it than to memorize the profitable range for AK? I mean I couldn’t possibly do that for all starting hands and be able to think of it in 10 seconds or less.

    5) One thing that made me cringe really badly was how I sometimes played hands without looking at the villain’s stack size. It wasn’t often, just got caught up in the moment and my cards and clicked the button before analyzing implied odds. (Obviously this isn't a question, just a confession of the worst conscious mistake I made in my session)

    6) When would you ever call, rather than raise a PFR? And when would you ever limp into a pot?

    *Edit* Also, what's the exact thought process when putting someone on a range? Is it by elimination? How do you translate tracker stats into his range? I have trouble thinking of every hand that is in a villain's range.
    Last edited by xpaand; 05-19-2010 at 10:35 PM.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  54. #54
    1)I don't like open limping PP's. You lose out on possibly winning the hand preflop, or getting raised at a later point anyways. If you're at a passive table that allows you to openlimp PP's for set value, are they likely to pay you off?
    -I'm more careful about raising PP's preflop if I have known wide 3bettors yet to act

    2)I tend to avoid blind stealing until I've determined that the players behind are somewhat tight and are willing to fold. Usually, I slowly widen my stealing range as I get a better idea of their playstyle.

    3)Depends on the the players behind.
    -Tight players I'll blind steal with marginal hands.
    -Nits I'll steal with some trashier hands.

    4)I'm not fond of shoving AK pf, unless it's a shortstacker.
    If it's profitable to get it in pre with AK, Villain is going to have a pretty high VPIP/PFR/3BET and aggressive too.

    5)I setup my HEM to color people's names by stack sizes, bringing my attention immediately to shortstackers
    <25bb = Red
    <55bb = Yellow
    <125bb = Green
    >125bb = Blue

    6)I won't 3bet if their 3bet calling range crushes my hand. I'll limp in if someone else has in front of me and no one else is likely to raise behind.
    (Josh)
  55. #55
    xpaand I'll be following you as well my friend. Maybe we can help support each other through our journeys. I really like seeing that you stopped in my lame blug and took the time to post! GOGOGOGOGOGOG
    "You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
    The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."

    Quote Originally Posted by XxStacksxX View Post
    Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it
  56. #56
    LOL np Harley. I don't think your OP is lame, but put some more shit in it if you think it is!

    So I decided I'm not going to post hand histories in here, as there's a lot more people who respond in the BC and IRC. I'm gonna treat this OP as more of a journal of my progress and my life with posts of general questions maybe and hands once in a while..

    On that note. I've been trying to figure out what kind of laptop to buy and I've been torn between the Macbook Pro and Air. At first I wanted to get the Air, but then I realized how bad the specs were in comparison the Pro. I need performance because I wanna run Parallels Desktop + Windows 7 (it's running the whole Windows OS in a window basically [actually it runs it in a "Space" if you know macs]) to play poker with.

    The 13.3" Macbook Pro was the one I decided on at first because I'm not rich enough to justify spending more than $1500 on a laptop. After asking a lot of people and doing some research, I realized that it wasn't worth it to get the higher end 13.3" cause there is no perceivable difference, so if I want one that's better performance wise, I had to move up to the 15". Decided to get the 15" cause I realized I probably won't buy another laptop for a few years and once I start multitabling like crazy, I wouldn't wanna regret not getting the 15".

    I had to order it online cause of the higher resolution screen option. I feel like a kid; I haven't been this excited to get something since getting my first nice car back in 2006. Anyways purchase came to $1955 cause of my student discount of $120 or something. Here's what I got coming next week :

    - 15.4" Macbook Pro [2.4GHz Intel Core i5]
    - High Resolution Glossy Screen Upgrade [1440x900 to 1680x1050]
    - Apple Magic Mouse
    - Case

    Note: I've had two PC laptops and two Macbooks and I would NEVER consider buying a PC laptop. Some people consider Apple to be overpriced, but I don't at all. I consider it as paying a premium for peace of mind that your computing device isn't going to be a piece of shit.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  57. #57
    Had a very nice session today. Don't know what the results are (although I feel like they were VERY positive), but I was happy with most of my decision making. However, I realized that although I didn't make many conscious mistakes, I am unsure of many spots. After I read this article by ISF, it kinda made sense why I felt so lost at times: http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...er-153550.html

    Instead of learning full concepts and applying them, I was finding trouble spots and seeing what the right decisions were (reviewing hands). Obviously reviewing hands isn't bad and should be done anyways, but I think I should be spending a lot more time learning "advanced" concepts and then adjusting to the microstakes.

    I feel good. I feel like I'm making a lot of progress in my game and my conscious learning of the game. Yay.

    Note: LOL @ the "douche" comments underneath haha
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  58. #58
    I got a new acronym to play by at the micro's: VSF. You may guess Very Shady F****** or Vagina Super Fun, but it stands for ValueBet, ShowdownValue and FoldEquity to me.

    I just read a great post on 2+2 (Theory (looong): how to beat the micro's (2NL-50NL) - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit - Micro Stakes Poker Forum) on how to beat the micro's; it's kinda dumbed down, but that's how most of the people in the micro's like it I guess.

    Point of the whole article is this decision tree:

    Can you value bet?
    Yes: Value bet
    No: Proceed to next q

    Do you have any showdown value?
    Yes: Check/Fold
    No: Proceed to next q

    Do you have fold equity?
    Yes: VERY RARELY bluff (very dependent on the line taken and the board)
    No: Check/Fold

    Bluffing should be rarely used as not many people in the micro's can fold many hands. For ex, they have TPTK and there's a straight draw on the board. Villain may not necessarily fold even if you represented a straight from the beginning of the line.

    Another problem for a lot of beginners is that they think everyone is bluffing. This is a terrible mentality to have at the micro's (as you will find out if you keep calling these "bluffs"). There is no need really to be trying to win every pot. Just fold if villain reraises on a scary board and you don't have a hand very close to the nuts. Fold and proceed to next hand. Vbet/Vbet/Vshove. Collect. Move on up.

    *Edit: I realized this post sounds commanding. This was cause it was kind of me telling myself to stop trying to extract value out of every hand I go into that has any potential. This has been very -EV for me.
    Last edited by xpaand; 05-27-2010 at 02:27 PM.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  59. #59
    Some of these hands are blatantly obvious, but I wanted to exercise my analysis on cbet/double barrel hands.

    Note: ftc = fold to cbet

    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    BB ($7.84)
    UTG ($9.50)
    UTG+1 ($5.79)
    UTG+2 ($9.95)
    Hero (MP1) ($11.64)
    MP2 ($6.05)
    MP3 ($10.62) [Stats: 11/7/inf (0/0 ftc) over 46 hands]
    CO ($12.48)
    Button ($14.36)
    SB ($9.90)

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6, 6
    3 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.40, 4 folds

    Flop: ($0.95) 10, 9, 2 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.60, MP3 calls $0.60

    Turn: ($2.15) A (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.25, 1 fold

    Total pot: $2.15 | Rake: $0.14

    Analysis: Villain's calling range from his position is probably [22+,A9s+,KJs+,QJs,JTs,AJo+,KQo]. The only way to be ahead of his range is if we hit a 6. However, at 10NL, I feel that cbetting as a bluff works well so I felt justified to lead out on the flop as the preflop aggressor. After villain calls, the Ad comes which raises our fold equity (as a double barrel here will force most rational villains to fold unless they have TPSK+) and our pot equity is static and remains low. The increase in fold equity though made me feel like I could double barrel this dude and take the pot, which is what happened.

    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG+2 ($7.84)
    MP1 ($8.80)
    MP2 ($5.79)
    MP3 ($9.15)
    Hero (CO) ($10.74)
    Button ($6.65) [21/5/2 (2/3 ftc) over 235 hands]
    SB ($9.90)
    BB ($12.93)
    UTG ($15.01)
    UTG+1 ($9.85)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with A, 2
    6 folds, Hero bets $0.40, Button calls $0.40, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30

    Flop: ($1.25) K, K, A (3 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $0.70, 2 folds

    Total pot: $1.25 | Rake: $0.08

    Analysis: Here I bet A2o from CO to take advantage of some of the tight PF play going on, but then BU and BB called me. The flop drastically increased flop equity, but not so much pot equity as I had 2 pair but with bottom kicker. A cbet here would surely fold everyone out if they didn't have an A or K, which were only a small part of their range at BU and BB.

    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG+2 ($2)
    MP1 ($9.45)
    MP2 ($8.32)
    MP3 ($5.17)
    CO ($4.20)
    Button ($11.52) [17/7/5 (0/1 ftc) over 104 hands]
    Hero (SB) ($9.90)
    BB ($11.62)
    UTG ($9.54)
    UTG+1 ($11.91)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K
    7 folds, Button calls $0.10, Hero bets $0.55, 1 fold, Button calls $0.45

    Flop: ($1.20) 9, 2, 10 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.60, Button calls $0.60

    Turn: ($2.40) 8 (2 players)
    Hero checks, Button bets $2.20, Hero folds

    Total pot: $2.40 | Rake: $0.16

    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG+1 ($2.35)
    UTG+2 ($9.29)
    MP1 ($5.13) [17/11/11 (1/4 ftc) over 157 hands]
    MP2 ($10.77)
    MP3 ($10.59)
    Hero (CO) ($18.20)
    Button ($12.95)
    SB ($2)
    BB ($9.68)
    UTG ($2.30)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, A
    3 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.30

    Flop: ($0.95) 9, K, J (2 players)
    MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.60, MP1 calls $0.60

    Turn: ($2.15) 9 (2 players)
    MP1 checks, Hero bets $1, MP1 raises to $4.13 (All-In), Hero folds

    Total pot: $4.15 | Rake: $0.26

    Analysis: I usually raise PF 4bb + 1bb/limper, which means my raise here should have been 5bb (it wasn't because I either mistyped the amount or because I was an idiot and didn't realize there was a limper). With A7s, I feel like I was slightly behind his range going into the flop. I cbet the flop (despite his 25% fold to cbet since it was such a low sample size) and got called. With the second 9 coming on the turn, I felt that my fold equity increased with my pot equity going down. However, I don't think my fold equity goes down here because the 2nd 9 also makes it unlikely that I have a combo of 9's in my hand (in villain's perspective). The only two hands that I could have with a 9 in them in relation to my stats were A9s, 99 or maybe T9s at the most. Before the turn, the combo's that gives me are 3x4 + 3 + 3x4 = 27, whereas after the turn it's 2x4 + 1 + 2x4 = 17 which cuts it down to almost 2/3. I think it was a bad idea here to double barrel and a check would have been the better play. I just feel like I should cbet when the board gets paired but I don't think that is correct.

    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG+1 ($9.72)
    MP1 ($21.74)
    MP2 ($9.55)
    MP3 ($10.90) [57/19/3 (3/5 ftc) over 37 hands]
    CO ($14.27)
    Button ($9.11)
    Hero (SB) ($25.23)
    BB ($4.88)
    UTG ($1.85)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J
    2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.65, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.55

    Flop: ($1.50) 10, 6, 2 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1, MP3 calls $1

    Turn: ($3.50) 10 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP3 bets $1.15, Hero folds

    Total pot: $3.50 | Rake: $0.22

    Analysis: Here I feel the same way about the previous hand (paired board on the turn) although I didn't double barrel this flop because the villain's stats made me think he wasn't able to fold to a double barrel. On the turn, my fold/pot equity both go down I believe.
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
  60. #60
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Hand 1: Seems a little on the marginal side but ok.
    Hand 2: Hard to get better hands to call or worse hands to fold here. I think I like checking and trying to get thin value or bluff catch on a later street.
    Hand 3: Looks good. What if you had A K instead?
    Hand 4: It's hard to think of much he calls with on the flop that he folds on the turn, and your pot equity isn't so good, so seems like a turn check.
    Hand 5: Looks good.
  61. #61
    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($11.42)
    BB ($11.69)
    UTG ($5.57)
    UTG+1 ($9.95)
    UTG+2 ($10.30)
    MP1 ($10.36)
    Hero (MP2) ($12.65)
    MP3 ($5.53)
    CO ($11.49)
    Button ($10.84)

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, Q
    2 folds, UTG+2 bets $0.35, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.20, 1 fold, CO calls $1.20, 4 folds

    Flop: ($2.90) 7, 6, 6 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50

    Turn: ($5.90) 6 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets $2.95, Hero calls $2.95

    River: ($11.80) K (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets $5.84 (All-In), Hero folds

    Total pot: $11.80 | Rake: $0.78

    Analysis: Not much of a read on this villain 57/17/inf over 6 hands. I cbet the flop cause I thought the fold equity was high due to the paired board and I had decent pot equity with my QQ since a 6 was not in his range calling a 3bet (although that's hard to say at 10NL with no reads on villain). When he called my cbet, his range was still fairly wide with 77, 6x, KK+ being the only hands that beat me. I felt I had enough showdown value on his turn bet to call, but the K on the river felt to me like I was beat as I put him on AK or KK+. I didn't see myself beating enough of his range with the river to call profitably.


    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($11.87)
    BB ($2.26)
    UTG ($2.89)
    Hero (UTG+1) ($10.54)
    MP1 ($12.74)
    MP2 ($2.40)
    CO ($8.34)
    Button ($2.38)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, Q
    1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, MP1 calls $0.40, 5 folds

    Flop: ($0.95) J, 7, 3 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.60, MP1 calls $0.60

    Turn: ($2.15) 9 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.25, MP1 calls $1.25

    River: ($4.65) 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP1 bets $10.49 (All-In), Hero folds

    Total pot: $4.65 | Rake: $0.30

    Analysis: Villain was 88/38/1 over 8 hands with no other reads. I cbet the dry flop with two overcards; standard. With a 9 on the turn, the board became somewhat straight drawed and so I presumed that the flop equity increased a bit and my pot equity was still decent so I went forward with a double barrel. His call confused me so I checked the river to avoid inflating this oversized pot and he proceeds to shove with the second 9 hitting. With no reads and with an unpaired hand, I saw very little showdown value.


    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP2 ($1.85)
    MP3 ($8.88)
    CO ($3.80)
    Button ($4.95)
    SB ($2.60)
    BB ($15.53)
    UTG ($3.08)
    Hero (UTG+1) ($11.62)
    UTG+2 ($7)
    MP1 ($1.75)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, J
    1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, UTG+2 calls $0.40, 7 folds

    Flop: ($0.95) 10, 3, 6 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.60, UTG+2 calls $0.60

    Turn: ($2.15) 8 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.20, UTG+2 calls $1.20

    River: ($4.55) 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $4.80 (All-In), Hero folds

    Total pot: $4.55 | Rake: $0.30

    Analysis: Villain was 93/26/0 over 27 hands, but his fold to cbet was 4/4. I cbet the dry flop. I double barreled, but I don't think that was the right play given the villain's stats. I felt like he was possibly floating and then I checked the river as I was scared that he might have something. His shove was an instafold for me as his aggression was so little before this hand. After I folded however, he proceeded to show me AKo lol.


    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB ($10.40)
    BB ($2.37)
    UTG ($5.43)
    Hero (UTG+1) ($11.61)
    MP1 ($7.24)
    MP2 ($25.70)
    MP3 ($4.90)
    CO ($3.70)
    Button ($10.08)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 6, 6
    1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.40, 4 folds

    Flop: ($0.95) 10, 10, 4 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.60, MP3 calls $0.60

    Turn: ($2.15) A (2 players)
    Hero bets $1, MP3 calls $1

    River: ($4.15) J (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP3 bets $2.90 (All-In), Hero folds

    Total pot: $4.15 | Rake: $0.26

    Analysis: Villain was 27/3/2 over 234 hands. FTC (9/17=53%) and FTDB (1/2). I cbet the flop due to the high fold equity with the paired board and I felt like my hand at that point had decent pot equity. With the A coming on the turn, I felt like it be a good spot to double barrel due to the increase in fold equity being greater than the drop in my pot equity. With his call, I was nervous he had Ax or Tx and his shove on the flop sealed my fate of folding this hand.


    Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP1 ($3.90)
    MP2 ($3.21)
    MP3 ($16.56)
    CO ($10.71)
    Hero (Button) ($10.65)
    SB ($8.15)
    BB ($14.62)
    UTG ($10.79)
    UTG+1 ($3.85)
    UTG+2 ($7.87)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with A, J
    7 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30

    Flop: ($0.85) 9, A, 8 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

    Turn: ($1.85) Q (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB calls $1

    River: ($3.85) 8 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB raises to $9.85, Hero calls $6.75 (All-In)

    Total pot: $21.35 | Rake: $1.42

    Analysis: Villain was 50/14/3 over 28 hands. FTC 1/1 and FTDB 1/1. I played this a lot lighter than usual due to the villain's stats and him calling down light to showdown in a hand before this vs a different player. I basically value bet 3 streets down with TPSK and two pair on the river. The flush and the paired 8 worried me on the river re-raise, but I felt like it could be a bluff or him overvaluing a different hand (AT for ex). I'm not gonna say what he had because I really want people's opinion on this. Am I okay to call down this light even on a river shove just because villain called down light in a couple hands before?
    OP: Beginner to Master

    If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".

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