Nice points Jager. The reason i haven't discussed value betting that much is because that's usually not that big of a problem for a small stakes player.

Quote Originally Posted by Jager
I would like to know Massimos thoughts on value betting, and when is it optimal to shove for value?
Like i've said many times in this thread, this is a general question and hard to answer because it really depends on who your facing. Does the guy like to make hero calls, or does he make calls cause he feels priced in? Does he like to make big folds. Does he view my value like bets as bluffs or my shoves, what has he seen me bluff?

So i'll show you by giving an example from yesterday. The opponent is a guy i haven't seen much of, but by his overall stats and how i've seen him play he seems solid and TAGGY.

POKERSTARS GAME #9804883113: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/05/08 - 01:30:23 (ET)
Table 'Phaedra IV' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: tapatapa ($235.55 in chips)
Seat 2: jmega ($197 in chips)
Seat 3: Wii_fund ($80.10 in chips)
Seat 4: IMSUPERCREAL ($402.95 in chips)
Seat 5: Lazar2 ($160.80 in chips)
Seat 6: fourboys1 ($229.80 in chips)
Lazar2: posts small blind $1
fourboys1: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IMSUPERCREAL [Th 7h]
tapatapa: folds
jmega: raises $5 to $7
Wii_fund: folds
IMSUPERCREAL: calls $7
Lazar2: folds
fourboys1: calls $5
*** FLOP *** [Qs 3h 4h]
fourboys1: checks
jmega: bets $16

A continuation bets in multiway pots usually mean something pretty good at 200NL and below. I wouldn't say the same for 400NL, there seems to be a lot more multiway betting. But this is 200NL, so i immediately think a lot of his range are a pair of AQ-QJ, JJ-AA, sets and A high flush draws. I realize that by raising i'm not going to get him off most of these hands.

IMSUPERCREAL: calls $16
fourboys1: folds
*** TURN *** [Qs 3h 4h] [7c]
jmega: bets $38

Now i'm pretty sure he has AA-QQ, 33, 44, or AQ-QJ. I have no reason to believe this guy two barreled because 1. it's not a good spot to do it and 2. he's never done it before. A FD is also possible but less likely. Since my T and 7 outs are hidden, and i'll probably get some value out of my flush, the turn is an Easy call.
IMSUPERCREAL: calls $38

*** RIVER *** [Qs 3h 4h 7c] [Ts]
jmega: checks
IMSUPERCREAL:

This was the utterly perfect river, I'm almost positive i'm winning. So now i have to interpret the check. He could have done that with a FD, in this case it doesn't matter what i bet because he's folding. The other reason for checking would be to induce a bluff, and since i'm obviously a very aggressive player this is very very plausible. So in this spot i want my bet to look as much as possible as a bluff, because it looks exactly like a missed draw. In fact, he was right my flush draw did miss but my two pair/trips draw didn't.

IMSUPERCREAL: bets $341.95 and is all-in
jmega: calls $136 and is all-in (instantly)
*** SHOW DOWN ***
IMSUPERCREAL: shows [Th 7h] (two pair, Tens and Sevens)
jmega: mucks hand
IMSUPERCREAL collected $399 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $402 | Rake $3
Board [Qs 3h 4h 7c Ts]
Seat 1: tapatapa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: jmega mucked [As Ac]
Seat 3: Wii_fund folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: IMSUPERCREAL (button) showed [Th 7h] and won ($399) with two pair, Tens and Sevens
Seat 5: Lazar2 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: fourboys1 (big blind) folded on the Flop

Read him like a book the whole way (lol @ my veiled brag).

In this specific spot i didn't really have reads. However, i could make my best guess at what he's doing by induction. Since he was had TAGGY stats, i assumed he probably knew what he was doing and also had knowledge of popular plays (like the check to induce a bluff). Also, since he represented a certain hand on the flop and turn, i assume that hand is going to be very hard to fold, especially to a push from and aggressive player.

I'll touch more on this later but i have to get to class!

Please start giving me HH's to anaylize everyone.