an update concerning the only thing that is "due"
june 26th
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
I'm going to have to call it quits Keith, I just can't play these small stakes for months on end like this, I've just played hu 5-50nl, and lost, I'd just completely had enough of it. So many hours and weekends spent playing for what, you know, from now on I'm just going to play low stakes and see if I can't get somewhere, just playing a couple of tables.
I think it's the way I am as a person, I haven't got the patience to grind these stakes, well not for 2months plus anyway, but definately can't say I didn't give it a good shot.
I'll ship your stake back plus all of the profit from before I quit today, on Thursday if that's ok with you. I won't bother taking my small part of the profit and I'll round it up slightly and call it $90. Hopefully you'll have better luck with your next stakee Keith. I just can't grind nano/micro stakes anymore.
I appreciate the effort you put in to this Keith, at least this frees your time up to try with a stakee that might provide you more consistent results. ty for all that were involved.
Originally Posted by keith
i'm confused , according to your bankroll reporting
21-6 br $109.53
22-6 -6.23 and $103.23
23-6 -0.48 = $102.75
24-6 +6.45= $109.20
25-6 -3.00= $106.00
so i can work it out ,post a screenshot from the account section of the boyle client showing the transaction history ,bonuses available/history ,and the account home
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
This is cashier and transaction history
[attachment=1]cashier.jpg[/attachment]
the 90$ remove and deposit, was the last time I was going to withdraw to you then we changed plan and I asked them to redeposit it and cancel withdrawl.
My calculations: -
Initial stake $75
Bonuses: $84
total : $159
loss from 2-5nl (graph attached) : $60.94
[attachment=0]graph-gary.jpg[/attachment]
So total bankroll including all bonuses is, excluding any losses from yesterdays out of stake play is: $159 - $60.94 = $98.06
As said I don't want any cut of any profits, so will ship you this providing you agree. If you want any more ss's etc just let me know.
I get paid on Thursday and will send it Thursday night... I learnt quite a bit, I do thank you for that, I also thank you for having the vision / faith to involve me in the stake, in spite of my lack lustre history - It's just a shame I couldn't stick with it. I'm going to use what I've learnt and implement playing 200nl live so hopefully it won't be completely wasted. I found when I tried before live I had a fair shot at staying disciplined, so who knows with that and my improved strategy I might start turning profits yet.
Financially I think this is the farest way of working it out: i.e stake+bonuses - loss from 2nl-5nl with me not taking any profits, i have all data etc so if you want to verify anything just shout Keith.
Originally Posted by keith
There are no profits to split, you gambled them away yesterday. Original agreement was that in these circumstances you are liable for all the losses from playing above your roll and the original stake if it is lost playing outside of the way we want you to play. This would be unfair because you would be paying the stake money back twice.
I don't see why we should stand any of the losses from yesterday which were all played outside of the stake because you loosened up the ranges unilaterally and played hands that we didn't approve. You made that decision , you stand the loss.Same with playing 2nl headsup ....why should we stand those losses.
from the graph. the last "in stake" point was the $6.45 profit on the 24-6 which is the last peak at at approx -(37+(2*2.4)) or -$41.8.so 75+84-41.8=$117.2.
you may think that this is more than the bankroll that was declared , but you gambled away the 15$ profit split and were going to redeposit it a couple of weeks ago. From the transaction history that redeposit didn't occur and explains the difference.
June 27th
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Ill look into this over next few days and post wednesday, for the record though, all br updates included full br, I wasn't reporting cashier (I had already included the $15 I owed the bankroll in the updates)
july 1st
Originally Posted by keith
need to see the bonus page to check that the 84$ is correct . but looks like 75+84+3.85 (tourney)-40.92(2/4/5nl losses)was the bankroll before the last day .split the tourney winnings and itsits 120$
July 3rd
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
i don't know how you can keep expecting the figure to be higher everytime you post?
There is zero $ in the cashier. I lost $99 + $15 playing out of the agreed stake.
$114 in total.
I was owed half of the profits, 114-75 = $39. Half of this is $17.50
So I owe you $114 - $17.50 = 96.50
If you don't agree with this please post why? and I'll check it out. You're obviously getting paid, but I do not want to get ripped off.
Thanks
Originally Posted by keith
from the agreement
payouts ..
------------
15% of roll at each $500 landmark:stakee cannot withdraw from the role until the stake is finished except to make the milestone payments.
i.e when bankroll hits $500 you pay us $75
@$1000 pay us $150 total $225
@$1500 pays us $225 total $450
@$2000 pays us $300 total $750
@$2500 pays us $375 total $1125 then grind it back up to $2500 to end the stake
total profit therefore of 2500+1125-75=3550
at 50:50 split is 1775......less 1125 already paid + repay original 75$ stake leaves $725 to pay us and would leave stakee with a 1775$ bankroll and still comfortably rolled for 50 nl
follow the formula through.
bankroll at end +payouts to coaches - original stake = profit on the stake to split
0+0-75= -75.
this is then adjusted by the penalty clause
penalties...
--------------
all money lost playing above stakee's bankroll stake he owes us and will be taken from his share of the split at the end.
If the stakee goes bust at 2nl following the style that we advise the stakers will stand the loss of the initial stake.We don't want the stakee to think they can play fast and loose at 2nl and gamble trying to move up quickly. This is where the solid foundation to the stakee's game is going to be made and help to give patience.
If the stakee has a negative share of the split at the end of the stake , he owes us the money anyway.This is to deter stakee from playing above their roll.
you did not go bust at 2nl following the strategy we set out. On the last day you played fast and loose, weakened the cards you'd play and then played short handed and headsup.You made that decision and went ahead and did it without permission, you stand the days loss as a result.looking at the HEM data , on the last day you lost $103.78 and add on the $15 that you hadn't refunded to the roll from june 12th which you lost playing outside of the stake makes $118.78. DOn't forget as well Gary , This means that I am standing the first nights losses where you lost ~$28 and the later $12 spew session and all the times you shoved with air and lost a stack. Non e of those could be defined as playing the way that we advised.
According to the original agreement these out of stake losses were to be deducted from your share of the profit split and any negative would be owed to us. To deduct these out of stake losses from the final roll( zero) and then make you repay the original stake would be unfair as you pay the stake money twice although thats how the orignal agreement was worded as we expected a profit from the stake , not for you to gamble it all away. I think I'm being very reasonable to stand all the 2/4/5nl losses played before the last day as that included $40 of tilted spew and the agreement was worded to deter you from doing what you actually did .
And just to reiterate , there were no profits to split as you lost the entire bankroll.If you had said you wanted to stop before you lost the roll , the calculation would have been the $118.78 split but you didn't. you can't go back after taking a massive gamble and say that you want to reduce the aount you lost.You gambled the profits away . there are none to split.
Originally Posted by keith
I have a feeling i can explain some of the difference now and in the original calculatuions.its been assumed that you lost 15$ on june 12th but the deposit transactions screen shows a 3$ deposit to the roll from vip points before the withdrawal was returned .That 3$ may well have been lost before the redepois was made. will have to check when i get home and can lool at the database on the 12th.
july 4th
Originally Posted by keith
look in the database on june12th . you lost $1.15 playing 2 tourneys between 9.30 and 12 and lost $17.17 playing cash at the same time. A total of $18.32 not the $15 and ties in with the vip deposit to the bankroll after you withdrew the roll on the 12th.
so total owed is 103.78+18.32= $122.10
july 5th
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
I had just trusted the agreement would be fair, should have had a reasonableness clause in there or something.
Simply put
I play for x weeks, make y amount of profit, which we agree is being split 50/50.
I then play out of stake, lose x and y.
Reasonably I should not be expected to pay back any more than x and (1/2)y
Anyway I can't be bothered wasting any more time on it so I'll pay you your last agreed amount. The fact that when I originally decided to end the stake before we restarted I could have just taken half the bankroll but didn't because it wouldn't have been reasonable, as the early termination simply said bankroll is split, not profit, highlights the importance I put to reason being applied to the these kind of matters. But anyway. enough said on this Keith. I'll pay you your agreed amount. Will just need to bear with me a week or so. I've ordered a new bank card as the one linked with my paypal account expired in March. I've been told it'll be here in 7-10 days. Sorry for delay short of that I can post you cash but probabally not the safest way of getting money to you.
15th July
emailed gary with
Have you got the card yet? its been 10 days now since you said it would be 7-10 days.
18th July emailed to another email address of his
Have you got the card yet?
Sent: July 18th, 2011, 10:11 pm From:LuckySlevin To:keith
Keith,
I just wanted to apologise for delay getting you the bankroll from your stake back. I've had a tough month this end, and it's taking me a bit longer than I'd have hoped to reimburse your stake. If you can bear with me another couple of weeks I'll be able to pay you back.
I get paid on the last working day of the month, and I will be transferring the money to you that same night.
Sorry to mess you about like this. Thanks for the confidence to stake me in the first place. It wasn't misplaced. I will definately pay you back in two weeks.
1st August, heard nothing so emailed gary again
I get paid on the last working day of the month, and I will be transferring the money to you that same night
by my reckoning you should have sent the money on Friday.Whats happening?.
his reply
hi keith, still have some cashflow issues here. Mostly down to poker - and fact i've also left my job. I'm not ignoring you - I will pay you back soon, sorry its taking a while.
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
Reply With Quote