Changing tactics : My Live Poker Blog

still not been paid anything yet by Gary who has claimed that he couldn't afford to as he left his job. Was reading the drunk thread today and saw his post and thought ..WTF looked up his posts on 2+2 and saw that hes been busy trying to get staked again and been playing on stars and party in tourneys.

he owes $120 and he's down $170 at stars in the last few weeks.......go figure where his priorities lie.


heres his latest
Seeking Pokerstars MTT stake $3.50 upwards - Staking -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Oops...

His priority lies in being "100% commited" to taking someone else's money to lose and never paying them back. What a complete loser.

Keith,
Why don't you post links on the 2p2 forum as asked?

I pmed the links to the guy that asked ....and not sure what gary's reply means , could be read either way. Not sure on the etiquette of posting FTRs staking forum link on 2+2's staking forum . rather go through a mod giving the go ahead to do it , or let a mod verify the links substantiate that gary hasn't paid.

Had an email off Gary on september 26th

Hi Keith,

Just a headsup to let you know I'll be paying you on Friday,

All the best,

Gary

to be fair though ....he didn't say which Friday.

he just posted in the BC today http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...tg-188862.html
lol

lol such a degen.

His latest post from that thread:

Yes I was staked. No I do not owe $120.

Firstly I would like to point out that I did not request any stake on that site. Keith propositioned me asking me to pm him stating he would like to stake me. I have never asked for any stake on any site other than this one. Typically If I was intending to scam you would imagine I would be the initiator.

Secondly the deal was for 50/50 split of any profits, this included rakeback. There was over $50 of rakeback throughout the stake.

The original stake was $75.00. After grinding for about 4 weeks at 2nl I mentioned that the stake wasn't going particularly well (although it was still in profit) and said I'd like to end the stake. Subject to the original terms this was fine to do. I had even sent a withdraw request to the site for the $80 odd dollars that was in the account at the time.

I was persuaded to stick with the stake I did for a bit then decided it still wasn't working and wanted to end it. The stake was in profit by about $5 at this time. Keith refused to tell me what the rakeback was so I decided to wait until it was credited to the account before I work out the profits and refund.

However about 3 weeks later I receive an email telling me the rakeback has been credited, yet when I check the account there is none in there, they have some kind of arrangement where somehow it went straight into their account.

The $120 has been plucked out of air. Keith was nothing but trouble to deal with throughout most of this stake and has been continually harrasing me since for a figure of money he has plucked out of thin air that he says I owe him. I do not scam anyone. I have been on this site for a few years now and have never had any problems.

If for some reason people on this site still think I am scamming somehow, I am happy to donate $120 to some cause at the end of this month, but I refuse to pay this to Keith on principle.

I hope that clears things up some. If you want any more info let me know.

Keith, I suggest you go ahead and post all the hard evidence including initial email/PM exchanges so that OP can't continue to slander your good name.

I don't know if it makes a difference that that has all been posted on 2p2 but is FTR really going to keep tolerating his shit? Unbelievable.

BAN HAMMER TIME!

you have exactly 48 hours to pay keith back or be banned from here forever.

Family Guy - Stewie beats up Brian - where's my money? pt 1 - YouTube

To early?

thanks Bikes and thanks to those giving support . I still have a lot more dirt I can throw gary's way....all due to the research(or e-stalking) i did.

what about a home address?

Originally Posted by eugmac

what about a home address?

little bit of research yesterday and i came up with a phone number for his dad. Rang him up and asked to speak to Gary and was told he had gone out. Told his dad what had happened and was then told that they sometimes didn't see him for a week or more.(yeah right). So i'm pretty confident that I have a home address for him. Told his dad that he ought to try and get Gary some counselling over his gambling. Checked with his dad that his son was 29 and he said yeah he's about that age.

I think he lives near Sydenham.

I can understand being in debt. I've been in debt a few times myself and people were always kind and patient to me. But to pull this shit without the intention of paying it back is unacceptable and I won't tolerate or allow this kind of behavior on FTR. If you value your reputation or you consider yourself a decent human being at all you will pay Keith back.

If not I hope you don't screw over the wrong kinda person who will cause you physical pain for it,

Originally Posted by bikes

I can understand being in debt. I've been in debt a few times myself and people were always kind and patient to me. But to pull this shit without the intention of paying it back is unacceptable

This totally sums up my feelings. Gary said he was hard up , had left his job so I was patient and waited and hardly made a fuss about it(i.e 6 emails in 3 months). To find out that he had a job and was playing and losing a fair bit of money that he could have used to repay me whilst claiming to be hard up meant that he was taking liberties to put it kindly.

We tolerate a lot here at FlopTurnRiver. Trolls, morons, the list goes on. But I will not tolerate nor will anyone else abusing the good faith of others in such a malicious way.

Keith went out of his way to help you and this is how you repay him? Like I said earlier debt is one thing, but to have no intention of paying the debt and then to slam Keith in a public forum is completely unacceptable.

You are banned forever. I hope Keith finds some way to get his monies and inflict punishment on you to the fullest extent of the law.

booyakasha

What a dick! Keith, aren't you a farmer? If so, you must be a pretty big guy, right? I think you'd be well within your rights to go kick his ass. I'm not really one to promote violence in general, but slevin is treating you like a complete mug and deserves an ass kicking. And better he gets it off a nice guy like you as opposed to some bad ass gangsta wannabe who hangs round at casinos.

Originally Posted by DanAronG

but slevin is treating you like a complete mug and deserves an ass kicking. And better he gets it off a nice guy like you as opposed to some bad ass gangsta wannabe who hangs round at casinos.

Well I'm not into violence either even if i do feel like beating him up. Bruises heal. I'm going for something that is going to hurt him an awfull lot more . How is a gambling addict gonna cope without access to poker sites. Already emailed Dragthebar today to warn them not to stake him as part of their staking program if he happens to apply and asked if the really want to have him advertising them. PM'd the people he applied for stakes off at 2+2 and told them his history . They have all replied and thanked me for letting them know about him and that he wouldn't get a stake off them. By posting his lies on 2+2 he made it personal.My WW history should have told him I don't let go when i go after someone. He made a BIG mistake.

Also , Shotglass ought to be commended as well , she posted in one of his stake requests pointing to this thread and that he had run off with the money. Is he such a dickhead to completely ruin any chance of a future in poker over $120. She had nothing to gain from posting but saved innocent people from getting conned by him.

The power of the internet is scary. from an email address and first name , i've found his dads home address and phone number (i think gary still lives there) , his age, who lived at his house in 2002 from the census , his screen names, websites he has been banned from with relative ease.

Originally Posted by Keith

The power of the internet is scary. from an email address and first name , i've found his dads home address and phone number (i think gary still lives there) , his age, who lived at his house in 2002 from the census , his screen names, websites he has been banned from with relative ease.

apparently so!

and to quote shakespeare in hamlet

"Revenge is a dish best served cold."

and even though Gary isw refusing to pay , I haven't given out his name address etc. why should his parents suffer because he's a thief.

Originally Posted by Keith

and to quote shakespeare in hamlet

"Revenge is a dish best served cold."

and even though Gary isw refusing to pay , I haven't given out his name address etc. why should his parents suffer because he's a thief.

You show remarkable maturity in doing this. I have people who owe me money for a gig I did back in June and apart from legal action, I've thought of so many fallback plans should even legal action fail, including sending feces through the post.

Originally Posted by Keith

Already emailed Dragthebar today to warn them not to stake him as part of their staking program if he happens to apply and asked if the really want to have him advertising them. PM'd the people he applied for stakes off at 2+2 and told them his history . They have all replied and thanked me for letting them know about him and that he wouldn't get a stake off them.

This is prolly the best way to deal with this situation. Considering the number of us here on FTR that have contacts with the online poker sites I'm pretty sure that we should be able to get him blacklisted.

Fk me. Gary has behaved like a complete tosser.

cant believe hes done all of thios over $120 only (and i mean no insult over the amount) just that it surely isnt worth all the hassle as everyone hsa pointed out.

Nice work bikes on the ban

Should link this in beginners digest: "Worst known case of bankroll management in poker world."

The worst has got to be that guy who just donked off $148K in three days.

Originally Posted by baudib

The worst has got to be that guy who just donked off $148K in three days.

is that the one who won the Sunday Mill?

Better to have loved and lost. Or not.

So he's 29, lives at home with his dad, can't hold a steady job, has problems with gambling and alcohol... This is not to excuse what he did to Keith and co. here, but you gotta pity the guy for having a really, really sad existence.

Yep, and question the logic of staking someone like that.

Originally Posted by DanAronG

Yep, and question the logic of staking someone like that.

Well, you can place a 500$ bet with some1 else that you gonna make him a winning player. Actually, you probably want to bet against someone who claims that this guy can become a winning player.

Y still no ban?

he's banned i just didnt change his user group

any updates keith?

not heard a thing from him, just put some more accounts /forum names on 2+2

Originally Posted by Keith

not heard a thing from him, just put some more accounts /forum names on 2+2

Note to self: Don't piss Keith off

well he might have ripped us off , but anyone doing any research hopefully shouldn't get ripped off by him in the future. You just have to look at his staking request threads atr 2+2 and there's no mention of the fact that he continually busts his account by playing underrolled.

He always wants somene to coach him into being a winning player.The truth is that i found out that he has very little self discipline and tilts far too easily and just plays recklessly.

this is the hand that caused Gary's initial withdrawal of the roll. Six weeks in and having continually told him to stop bluffing we faced this

https://www.pokertableratings.com/ha...84/15193798245

Gary didn't like my comments about it.

heres anther gary special.he had been told to leave tables when they dropped to 6 or fewer players

https://www.pokertableratings.com/ha...58/15127055047

and the resulting discussion in the attached thumbnails.

I guess you can cross your fingers he heaters again sometime in the next 3 months

unhappy with the way YOU have handled things?? WTF??

if you guys are ever looking to stake someone make sure you get their home address and find out a way to verify it is theirs. if they aren't interested in providing any sort of collateral for a loan which you won't even be doing a credit check for then just forget it and look for someone else.

its easy for someone to write up sob stories on the internet and have someone feel bad for them and give them a chance but when it comes down to it staking is a business and should be treated as such i.e. don't make exceptions to your standards for accepting an under qualified horse.

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

its easy for someone to write up sob stories on the internet and have someone feel bad for them.....

I feel bad for slevin.

Originally Posted by PlayToWin

I feel bad for slevin.

I feel bad for him too. but giving him money isn't going to help him.

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

if you guys are ever looking to stake someone make sure you get their home address and find out a way to verify it is theirs. if they aren't interested in providing any sort of collateral for a loan which you won't even be doing a credit check for then just forget it and look for someone else.

its easy for someone to write up sob stories on the internet and have someone feel bad for them and give them a chance but when it comes down to it staking is a business and should be treated as such i.e. don't make exceptions to your standards for accepting an under qualified horse.

Also, don't stake people who are obviously going to do this due to a history of regular reliable bustoing and degen issues.

m2m2cap2100bb2booze2cap2snechase2house2car2heartle ss

ic wat u did thar. He's calling you a bumhunting shortstacker m2m2seekvengenceuponbikes

.

Gary is happily plodding along getting his gambling fix. Just look at this month on his stars account. Quite happy to drop 22$ at a time on tourneys.Since the stake ended hes now down almost double what he owes on stars tourneys alone without allowing for what he has lost playing live , and online cash games.

Keith, don't get too obsessed with getting your money back. He cannot help himself, since all heavier forms of addiction require a professional help. Think of it this way. When you gave money to him, you actually gave money to the fruit spinning machine in casino. You really cannot expect to profit long term at all.

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

Keith, don't get too obsessed with getting your money back. He cannot help himself, since all heavier forms of addiction require a professional help. Think of it this way. When you gave money to him, you actually gave money to the fruit spinning machine in casino. You really cannot expect to profit long term at all.

I'm not obsessed with getting the money back. KRC (one of the other stakers) has said that he will pay off what Gary owes as he feels he didn't follow through with what he said he would do. I have put it to the other stakers. I think that that is an honourable thing that he has offered and put it to the other stakers to get their opinions.

Personally , I don't think that anything that KRC could have done would have made any difference, Gary would just have got frustrated at a higher stake with a larger bankroll and played at a higher stake and bustoed it. I would far rather have Gary owe us the money with the possibility(probability?) that we never get paid than for KRC to pay it and be out of pocket.


Gary emailed me on the 18th and I replied. Its been a week since i replied and not heard a thing from him.This was what he said and my reply

[/

Wow, I had never seen this thread before keith just sent me a link, otherwise I would have paid this off long ago. This is just so crazy out of hand.

Keith is probably right, this would probably have went badly no matter what. But the fact is, we'll never really know what might have happened if Gary had been given the opportunities he was promised. I personally promised several coaching sessions, and then I never bothered to actually see that they got done. Post black friday, I was just always "too busy" to be bothered with coaching someone to play $2nl. I told Gary I'd do it. He asked me several times when I could get it done and I always gave him some vague "soon" type answer. Soon didn't come before Gary imploded, but it should have. I could have made it happen the way it should have happened, but I didn't.

Even back when this whole thing started, keith pm'd me several times asking questions about the details of the deal because he knew that I have been involved in both sides of these kinds of deals on more than one occasion. Again, I was too busy to be bothered and basically ignored his requests. We ended up with a "deal" that just could never possibly work. No one should be expected to put in the work that was required of Gary for virtually no return, at least no return for any foreseeable future. The deal was doomed from it's outset, and I could have prevented that from happening, but once again, I didn't.

I'm paying this off, shipping keith $120 as soon as I finish this post. If keith and/or the other stakers don't want it, whatever, ship it to charity. But Gary doesn't owe anyone anything from this debacle. I'd even ask that he be "unbanned" from this site, this just should never have happened. If I had known about this thread he would never have been banned. I kept checking his rail thread, saw no updates and figured it was all basically forgotten. I did always intend to pay this off myself, but once again, I couldn't be bothered until a few days ago when I mentioned it to keith.

Gary didn't handle things very well at all, but he was in a no win situation. What he did wasn't the right thing, but it was completely understandable and was virtually inevitable imo. He doesn't deserve all the hate he's getting here, it wasn't all his fault.

bikes: I did see that I'm not suppose to post in this thread because "it doesn't help keith get the money back", but I figured since this guarantees payback, maybe it would be ok. Apologies if you disagree.

EDIT: Done, Gary should be considered paid in full.

Just to confirm that KRC has shipped me 120$.

Fruit spinning machines are so much fucking fun!

K no one else is allowed to post in this thread anymore except keith and slevin and the mods.

These posts don't help keith get his monies back and if anything they hurt his chances so please don't post and I'll have to delete anything that is posted thanks.

Not the outcome most of us wanted to see but I'm glad for you Keith and I'm glad this got resolved.

kk everyone can post now

I had my fingers crossed for murder/suicide...oh well, better luck next time

I've emailed Gary to tell him that KRC has paid off what he owed.

Having read this thread, this whole thing makes me really sad. He fucked up a golden oppourtunity to be coached by quality players and really grow and improve. I'd do so much for something like that, and he shat all over it.

Meh.

krc is a stand up dude, glad to see his first legit post on ftr even if it is just coming in to settle the drama. It's at least a shitton better than his epic fail in the stop bumping old threads thread.

Originally Posted by supa

krc is a stand up dude, glad to see his first legit post on ftr even if it is just coming in to settle the drama. It's at least a shitton better than his epic fail in the stop bumping old threads thread.

lol, I do remember the epic fail. Lurked around here for more than a year, waiting for that exact opportunity and then managed to fk it up by answering the phone before clicking the "submit reply" button. But at least when I fail, it's epically.

Oh, and ty.

Okay guys, I have question for you, especially for those who did some coaching. It doesn't refer to Gary directly, but I think he is a good example of a type of person I want to talk about. And lets also set aside that some of you didn't complete your part of a deal (coaching sessions or whatever).

So, lets say there is a hypothetical person who is more "gambler" in nature then he is a "player." So he tries to dedicate himself to improving his game, and he is doing quite well for some times, but then goes back to his old ways. One of the Garys hands Keith linked is a great example of that. Gary is in BB, BTN opens for 3x or something, and Gary shoves all-in with T7 100bb deep iirc.
Anyway, there is phase of playing poker and trying to improve, then comes "gambling", then again trying to improve, rinse and repeat.

Does any of you think, or maybe had an experience with that kinda person who actually managed to become a solid player, and completely ERASED his old ways? And what does it take to rehabilitate a gambler?

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

Okay guys, I have question for you, especially for those who did some coaching. It doesn't refer to Gary directly, but I think he is a good example of a type of person I want to talk about. And lets also set aside that some of you didn't complete your part of a deal (coaching sessions or whatever).

So, lets say there is a hypothetical person who is more "gambler" in nature then he is a "player." So he tries to dedicate himself to improving his game, and he is doing quite well for some times, but then goes back to his old ways. One of the Garys hands Keith linked is a great example of that. Gary is in BB, BTN opens for 3x or something, and Gary shoves all-in with T7 100bb deep iirc.
Anyway, there is phase of playing poker and trying to improve, then comes "gambling", then again trying to improve, rinse and repeat.

Does any of you think, or maybe had an experience with that kinda person who actually managed to become a solid player, and completely ERASED his old ways? And what does it take to rehabilitate a gambler?

Yes, ...and no...

The first person I ever really "coached" at these nano levels easily fit into the "gambler" description, not to mention that he was also a recovering (for the umpteenth time) meth addict. He had done nothing but spew money on poker tables for years. After 2 weeks of coaching he began crushing these stakes (>10ptbb/100) and he hasn't looked back since, at least not on the poker tables. Same cannot be said for his drug problems. Him now being able to turn $20 into $200 in a couple days of hard grinding $2nl probably did more damage to his real life than it ever benefited him.

I used to have degenerate tendencies with poker. For example the first time I started building a roll, I played 25NL with $50. ran it up to $450 over like a month, got drunk and sat on a 200NL table and lost most of it.

That wasn't the end of my poker degeneracy, but as I kept getting burned by the fire I would get burned less and less. Instead of losing 90% of my roll in a night, I'd lose 50%, then 25%, then 10% as my BRM got more conservative. Eventually I just stopped playing cash games drunk as I just couldn't ignore how bad it made me play anymore.

I'm still a degen, I just learned how to separate work from fun the hard way.

Originally Posted by d0zer

Eventually I just stopped playing cash games drunk as I just couldn't ignore how bad it made me play anymore..

lol

Originally Posted by bikes

lol

ok fine, eventually I learned to only play 1 or 2 stakes above my normal limit (and donkaments) while drunk. Also drunk live is fine cuz everyone's terrible and it's good for your image. Also remember to counterbalance the booze with weed cuz the booze makes you laggy and the weed makes you paranoid and nitty, so the right balance is magic!

HAHAHA i just waisted 2 hours of my life on this thread but it was the best entertainment i had on the internet ( besides midgetporn) i had in my life! Where else can u follow a story that shows you the rags and riches of poker.. I almost cried when he blew that 3k live donkament roll. But it didn't take me long to go into hysterical lolling when he added all the gambool details , like roulete games etc. jokes. By then i felt like this story can't get any more dramatic but little did i know. The whole staking story was kind of boring though. What did the stakers expect , i mean cmon ROFL. I guess this is the only thread that shows you the road from 200 nl to 2 nl. Lulz and i always felt like the worst gambool degen when i spanked of a hundo on stars for shits and giggles.

message to Slevin : I sincerely feel for you. I think you have a gambling problem. I know i do to. But i always lost money i could afford to lose and looked at it as entertainment. I've blown numerous nanostakes online bankrolls becuz i got bored or tilted. However Tilting away money that actually means something for you , never been in that ballpark , nor have i ever messed around with other people's monies.
Get yourself together bro , i seriously advise you to quit poker all together for like a year. Then u go to the atm and u get urself a fiddy and some potatochips. Strap urself in and play 2 nl for 50 k hands. Play like a complete regfish/nit. win at the game , get urself at least 30 buy ins for 50 nl and actually try learning poker besides playing cards. I'm a complete donk, however i understand what needs to be done and even if i massively fail , in the end i'll only lose a fiddy and had some fun mashing buttons.

Don't set these ridiculous goals like ' i want to be pro' . There's 1 universal truth in poker : don't look down upon microstakes if u haven't proven you can consistently beat it. Secondly if you think 5 nl isn't worth your time ( obviously it's not going to be meaningfull monies in the real world but that's not the point , learning is, bankrollmanagement is , emotional control is) grab a 50 pound bill or whatever your currency is and put it on fire every time u lose a buy in at 5 nl online.

If you can't emotionally control yourself poker isn't made for you. You always claimed to be working on it but i never had the impression throughout your whole story that you ever really tried. I think you massively underestimate the amount of $$ that can be made on microstakes if you have hardcore work ethics. Never heard about those crazy humanoids 20 tabling 25 nl making 30 k a year? not bad huh imagine if you can do that playing 50 or 100 nl. Basically you need to acknowledge defeat you massively failed in poker. Be humble acknowledge your emotional issues and do something about it before you return to the game. When you have - ONLINEBANKING-WIRE TRANSFER-50$-RECIPIENT:POKERSTARS- GAMEPLAN 2 NL TILTFREE

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

message to Slevin

Many, Many have tried to offer him advice - all have been ignored

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

message to Slevin : I sincerely feel for you. I think you have a gambling problem. I know i do to. But i always lost money i could afford to lose and looked at it as entertainment. I've blown numerous nanostakes online bankrolls becuz i got bored or tilted. However Tilting away money that actually means something for you , never been in that ballpark , nor have i ever messed around with other people's monies.

Gary does have a gambling problem.When he chooses to gamble instead of paying off his debts then he is heading into trouble.

Get yourself together bro , i seriously advise you to quit poker all together for like a year. Then u go to the atm and u get urself a fiddy and some potatochips. Strap urself in and play 2 nl for 50 k hands. Play like a complete regfish/nit. win at the game , get urself at least 30 buy ins for 50 nl and actually try learning poker besides playing cards.

Exactly what the stake was , teach him to play nitty at 2nl and then coach him through the stakes . He couldn't do it with help, how is he going to do it on his own?.

I'm a complete donk, however i understand what needs to be done and even if i massively fail , in the end i'll only lose a fiddy and had some fun mashing buttons.

Don't set these ridiculous goals like ' i want to be pro' . There's 1 universal truth in poker : don't look down upon microstakes if u haven't proven you can consistently beat it. Secondly if you think 5 nl isn't worth your time ( obviously it's not going to be meaningfull monies in the real world but that's not the point , learning is, bankrollmanagement is , emotional control is) grab a 50 pound bill or whatever your currency is and put it on fire every time u lose a buy in at 5 nl online.

gary was continually saying things like I want to be a pro, to get a high standard of lifestyle through playing poker, to go on poker cruises with his winnings, top play 2000NL etc etc etc , I kept telling him to stop saying /thinking that and start thinking about how to beat his current stake and then the next etc.

If you can't emotionally control yourself poker isn't made for you. You always claimed to be working on it but i never had the impression throughout your whole story that you ever really tried. I think you massively underestimate the amount of $$ that can be made on microstakes if you have hardcore work ethics. Never heard about those crazy humanoids 20 tabling 25 nl making 30 k a year? not bad huh imagine if you can do that playing 50 or 100 nl. Basically you need to acknowledge defeat you massively failed in poker. Be humble acknowledge your emotional issues and do something about it before you return to the game. When you have - ONLINEBANKING-WIRE TRANSFER-50$-RECIPIENT:POKERSTARS- GAMEPLAN 2 NL TILTFREE

Gary fundamentally underestimates the amount of work and study that needs to be done to achieve what he wants , he sees the glory and wants to get there quickly , hence he skips the work, and plays underolled thinking he'll get there quicker. All he does is go bust as a result because he cannot avoid variance.

Wow so being from the US I haven't been around much at all. I've really been missing FTR so I decided I'd pop in and see what was going on. Can't say I'm overly suprised by the major failure of OP but I am somewhat surprised/disappointed by the way he handled himself following his meltdown!
When I was last around the staking issue hadn't yet began. Keith commendable you tried to help I must say. So pathetic you were rewarded with such disrespect. I always thought similar situation could be advantagious not so much the staking but coaching/helping in exchange for a %. I hope this hasn't totally soured you on helping others!
RPM dude hats off your one hell of a man I have to say! But then again I think there are many good ppl here at FTR!

I posted earlier that I had emailed Gary to tell him that KRC had paid off what he owed. Got a reply today , couldn't help laughing at the irony.

Originally Posted by Keith

BAHAHAHAA LUCKY SLEVIN ALL CLASS AS ALWAYS.

Originally Posted by HarleyGuy13

Wow so being from the US I haven't been around much at all. I've really been missing FTR so I decided I'd pop in and see what was going on. Can't say I'm overly suprised by the major failure of OP but I am somewhat surprised/disappointed by the way he handled himself following his meltdown!
When I was last around the staking issue hadn't yet began. Keith commendable you tried to help I must say. So pathetic you were rewarded with such disrespect. I always thought similar situation could be advantagious not so much the staking but coaching/helping in exchange for a %. I hope this hasn't totally soured you on helping others!
RPM dude hats off your one hell of a man I have to say! But then again I think there are many good ppl here at FTR!

Talk about a blast from the past...welcome back

did you omit the part where you called him a f'n asshole? I don't get it.

Keith, I forget if this has been addressed here or not, but we all need to know: what possessed you to stake him in the first place? Did you think he had real potential? Did you think you could help him out of his degen ways? What was the motivation there?

Originally Posted by d0zer

did you omit the part where you called him a f'n asshole? I don't get it.

nope thats the full email. Maybe he didn't like the fact that it was in bold, or that the previous email to him i had said that i wanted an apology in the 2+2 thread.

Keith, I forget if this has been addressed here or not, but we all need to know: what possessed you to stake him in the first place? Did you think he had real potential? Did you think you could help him out of his degen ways? What was the motivation there?

Look back a the early pages of this thread. me carroters and Jyms were all critical of what he was doing, continually stressing the need for bankroll management etc. Once he'd busto'ed it was either time to put up or shut up.

when i started at FTR , Slevin held a scholaship to grinderschool thread ,
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post1793878
he gave me my start so there was a certain extent of giving back and helping him. put together a group of coaches who were all willing to put a small amount in and try and turn him around.DOn't think its right for me to say who they were to avoid them getting "will you coach me" type pleas from any bc noobie. Black friday hit and all of a sudden bankrolls were tied up, poker was off limits etc so the number of coaches reduced . Carroters has said earlier in the thread that he turned down the proposition to be one of the stakers as gary was a degenerate gambler and was likely to blow the stake.. Totally respect him for it, We all knew that it was a big possibility that Gary would meltdown and busto. Hence all the penalties to try and stop him blowing the roll worked into the stake terms and paying us in installments for the coaching,and having him n an affiliate deal , so that if he did blow it at least we would have something to pay for the time spent and reimburse the stake if Gary defaulted. Unfortunately the meltdown came before he had generated enough income to cover the stake.

As for his potential , who knows , hopefully we would have got him to a stage where he could avoid busto ing every few weeks and change his attitude to poker so that he could work his way up.

I think we helped him a bit with his til issues , but ultimately it was his tilt issues that were his downfall.