Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
I hope you had a wry smile as you typed these words. You told me I'm too passive in these spots, my reply was the I don't have a c/r range here at all, that you are too aggressive. If you think I'm wrong, then I can only guess you're not giving me any credit just because I'm ong and not red.

red is going to tell you basically what I said, only he'll be more concise. We have a great price to draw, we have playability against the part of his range that missed the flop, and we don't have enough fold equity to profitably shove, and if I'm wrong and it is profitable, it's not as profitable as peeling. That's before balance is a consideration.
PF is not close, I'm calling with any suited cards.

I also do not have an X/R range here. If I did it would be against a wide opener and aggressive cbetter who I thought would be over folding to X/Rs. And it would be basically only 64s, gutters, and QT

Flop raise is terrible because I don't expect to get enough folds with this small of an X/R against a range where he has a significant range advantage and is getting 3:1. Plus, when called and you don't improve (pair, FD, STR) you have half pot left and 8 high with some pot equity and probably no fold equity on most cards and especially Kx. Hands that you could hope to have bluffed like AQ/AJ now have a gut shot and if villain is loose enough to peel flop he's probably not folding turn. If you called flop and he had AJ and turn doesn't improve AJ and he checks back I assume you can win the pot often enough by leading river with a balanced range. In short risk is too great, reward is too small, hands you are hoping to bluff can be bluffed when they check back turn on river, and you almost never will play an actually strong hand (57, T7, T5, 55, 77) because you basically have the deck crushed against his perceived opening range and there are very few rollouts that will kill your action.