Your own bankroll or a backer's?

This is my first post here, so forgive me if this is in the wrong section.

I'm thinking more long-term now a days, and this question has been on my mind quite a bit.

I have a family member who plays professionally, thought he has a backer with a huge bankroll. Supposedly he doesn't like it much because he doesn't get much discretion in which tourney he does or doesn't play because he's on contract. Me and him are not close, so I really can't talk to him about it, so I ask you guys.

If you're looking at poker with long term value, do you find the right backer or do you grind until your own bankroll is substantial enough to take thousands of dollars on one hit?

I've been leaning towards just building my current bankroll and not even bothering with a backer.

Experience and suggestions needed.
Thanks.

you could go find a backer though i imagine its a long process for a noob to even get one. 2+2 has backers around but also neverbeg.com has but again you will need to build up a rep just like in GTA.

Building your own BR gives you more satisfaction IMO

When I think about it, yes, it does feel good sitting on my roll knowing it started from not much money at all.

think of the story you have to tell/sell when you build your own roll, are your own man...from day one...from $20 of christmas money.

with a backer, i feel that would add too much pressure to perform...for the other guy. i dont like that pressure. i like the game of golf, swimming races, poker, individual things...where the good and bad performances rest squarely on MY shoulders, personally.

besides, without a backer...you keep 100% of the money you cash.

Originally Posted by Chopper

think of the story you have to tell/sell when you build your own roll, are your own man...from day one...from $20 of christmas money.

with a backer, i feel that would add too much pressure to perform...for the other guy. i dont like that pressure. i like the game of golf, swimming races, poker, individual things...where the good and bad performances rest squarely on MY shoulders, personally.

besides, without a backer...you keep 100% of the money you cash.

Golf is great. Almost had hole in one last week. Hit the freaking pin from 200 out. Had $100 on it to haha.

And you guys, I'm not talking a BR of 20,50, or even 200. I mean like $5k. I know it's not much compared to others, But I figure I can sit at the 50.100 tables. I think I'm ready, pretty confident.

My goal is to be around the $75k mark in about a year, give or take a month.....

read some of the stories here by the regulars. some of them started out real small, and have HUGE rolls now. some did it so quickly you wont believe it. things like $50 into $4000 in 18 mos.

you are starting with a good amount of money...resist the temptation to play "over your roll." i'm sure you know that.

as for golf. i used to play everyday until i was 14. played through high school and college on teams. turned pro after college..noncompetitive...only teaching, and left the industry to start my own business...lawn services. i guess i have to be around grass...lol.

i have logged thousands of holes...have been within a fraction of a stroke of "scratch"...but have NEVER HIT A FRIGGIN HOLE-IN-ONE! all my friends have, but not me. i got close twice. i'll pm you with the stories. but never hit one.

when i do, i will prolly not jump up and down at all. i will prolly say, "finally," with sigh of relief and move on like any other day...but with a huge weight off my shoulders...lol.

$50 into $4000 is nice, but in 18 months?

That is a longgggg time. I don't understand how it would take them so long. Sit down at a good cash game around here with $200, walk out with $1k-2k.....

I figure if I sit at $25/50 online with ohhhhh $2k-3k, I can turn that into $4k-6k in a 1-3 days.

Originally Posted by CrackingYou

$50 into $4000 is nice, but in 18 months?

That is a longgggg time. I don't understand how it would take them so long. Sit down at a good cash game around here with $200, walk out with $1k-2k.....

I figure if I sit at $25/50 online with ohhhhh $2k-3k, I can turn that into $4k-6k in a 1-3 days.

You can also just as easily turn that into $0. Variance can hit you in the a$$ and take it all. I've seen good regulars here lose $7k in $200nl/$100nl/$50nl in a matter of a month. If you are so confident about your poker skills, then build your roll up and forget about a backer.

Originally Posted by CrackingYou

I figure if I sit at $25/50 online with ohhhhh $2k-3k, I can turn that into $4k-6k in a 1-3 days.

I figure you would go busto!!

i'm not talking about someone going in with $50 and taking it to a 100NL table, doubling up, taking it to a 200NL and doubling again...thats stooopid. hope thats not your plan.

i'm talking about people that have followed proper br management, started at the 10NL level (not that 50 bucks is proper there), and built it through tens of thousands of hands...learning/studying along the way. moving up gradually, not on a heater that fizzles leaving them broke.

if most of your income is coming from poker now...you should be well aware of bankroll management...and be good at it...if you are thinking about "going pro."

and i've heard of higher...faster...i was being conservative for believability's sake...

like i said, search the forums for the storys...or ask some of the mods for theirs. gabe, lukie, the twins, renton, zook, fnord, etc. these guys can tell you theirs (if they want to) and certainly direct you to the right threads.

please dont everyone start pm'ing them, i just suggested the authors to search...not calling them on the phone or anything...lol.

most of you know the stories anyway.

Originally Posted by CrackingYou

Sit down at a good cash game around here with $200, walk out with $1k-2k.....

I figure if I sit at $25/50 online with ohhhhh $2k-3k, I can turn that into $4k-6k in a 1-3 days.

Why would you need a backer then?
Exactly how much money do you think someone is going to back you for? (note: if I backed people, I'd back you for about $0)
Why is it going to take you a year to make 75k? You can make 1-2k per night, for chrissake! Where I come from, that's less than 75 days. 2.5 months.

I understand BR management.

What I'm saying is that I play live. I don't play online, only now is that going to be added to my income as I'm transitioning into it full time. Stay playing at my house games on a weekly basis, and play online full time aswell at the 25/50 tabbles(until I'm ready for 50/100) as well as some random tournies that have high buy ins with smaller entry slots.

I understand I'm a new face on here, but I know what I'm getting myself into. I love the grind. I live for, and have well before I joined here.

This thread is about backers people. All this thread should be about is YOUR experience with a backer.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by CrackingYou

I understand BR management.

What I'm saying is that I play live. I don't play online, only now is that going to be added to my income as I'm transitioning into it full time. Stay playing at my house games on a weekly basis, and play online full time aswell at the 25/50 tabbles(until I'm ready for 50/100) as well as some random tournies that have high buy ins with smaller entry slots.

I understand I'm a new face on here, but I know what I'm getting myself into. I love the grind. I live for, and have well before I joined here.

This thread is about backers people. All this thread should be about is YOUR experience with a backer.
Thanks.

sorry, crack, youre starting to get "flamed" a bit. not to stray off your topic too far, but it sounded to us like you were missing a key fundamental in your quest to turn pro.

dont take us the wrong way. many of us are impatient in our responses, and quick to correct someone, but most of us mean little harm...just trying to help.

to add: playing online is DIFFERENT than playing live. not just because you cant see the players, but because you can play much lower with the ability to multitable, but still make the same incomes. because of this, your potential online can go higher online without the risk of as large a bankroll compared to playing live.

standard is 20 BI's. but, if you want to solely depend on poker for an income, that becomes a function of your tolerance for going broke. i've read 40 BI's...even higher.

i think you said you played live "home games" (too lazy to check ) in one of your posts. thats fine, if your competition sucks. and if you can come in with 200 and routinely leave with 1k-2k, they must.

but you always need to concern yourself with "variance." it will bite you in the arse at some point. thats all the responses are trying to protect you from.

and in regards to online play again... you will notice very shortly that a 25 NL table will not allow you to turn $25 into $250 every night...its simply impossible. even though they suck, too, they dont just give away their monies.

the competition is tougher online. a 1/2 NL live game can be compared to a 10 NL online game. again, there are people in here that can show you that they are marginally profitable at 50 NL online...but KILL 1/2 live...even 2/5.

sorry to get off your topic, but i hope you understand that we (in the forum) are going to want to cover a "fundamental" when it comes up...to make sure a "newer" guy (experience irrelevant...only going by number of posts at FTR) understands how important his bankroll is...before moving on to "backers" and the like. and you said something (turning 200 into 2000) that sent up a bunch of red flags.

hope that clarifies a bit.

Thank you Chopper.

Could a mod please close this?

Originally Posted by CrackingYou

I understand BR management.

Totally without sarcasm and insult: no you don't. You don't play 25/50 NL buying in for 3000 of your 5000 total roll. That's not bankroll management; that's bankroll disaster in the works. Because when you lose that 3000 (and certainly you'll lose a buy-in eventually -- all players eventually go on a 10+ buyin swing--it's impossible to avoid without quitting poker), you've devastated your bankroll and you don't really have one anymore.

A professional player with a $5000 bankroll should be playing .50/1NL and no higher. There's simply too much variance in this game to take any bigger shots as a serious professional.

Also, if you don't see why turning $50 into $4000 takes 18 months and that's a GOOD speed, then you simply don't understand BR management.

Originally Posted by CrackingYou

This thread is about backers people. All this thread should be about is YOUR experience with a backer.
Thanks.

You didn't actually ask us about our experience with backers. I don't think most of us have any experience with backers, at least not on this forum. If so, it's not very widely discussed. I also take some offense to you trying to chart my response to your question. Hopefully I'm able to respond to your question in any way I see fit, and you can use any or all of that information as you see fit. If not, I imagine I'll quit using the forum. Back on topic: Bottom line is, this isn't really a choice. One is clearly better than the other. Any serious cash player who has potential to be a professional is going to have a lot better go of it if they can keep all of the profit rather than 50% (which is fairly standard backing arrangement). Why would you want to fork over half your paycheck? I think 90% of backing arrangements are because someone can already beat a limit (they're a proven winner there) but for whatever reason they don't have the bankroll to play at that limit. It's a loan to play with an incredible amount of vig. I think the other 10% are losing players convincing someone they're a winner.

I think your best bet is to get at least 10K behind and start at 1/2NL, assuming you can beat that limit. Keep all of your profit, of course. If you can't win 10K in your juicy sidegames and you KNOW you're a winner at a limit where you could make enough to subside, then why not borrow the money from a non-poker-backer? Certainly a real-world interest rate is going to be far less than your backer taking half the profit. I've often wondered if Prosper (a web startup of people loaning money) would be a viable means of obtaining a bankroll. Probably.

i equate playing w/ a backer with playing at to high of stakes. the comfort level just isn't there, b/c it's not your money you're making decisions with, it's theirs. if you play at too high of stakes you'll feel this same pressure. my advice: build a roll and work up. it's hard, time-consuming, and frustrating, but you'll appreciate it when you've gotten there.

it might not mean i takes 18 months. could be done in 12 months

if you're good enough to win at the stakes you want to play at then it shouldn't be long before you've built a roll and can fund yourself.

also, why would anyone back you if you can't even beat the lower limits?

you can make a nice living at $200NL and that doesn't take long to grind out a BR for, if you have the skill. and if you wanna go pro then you supposedly do have the skill.