Working out ranges

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

This isn't always true. One example is a spot where villain has the nuts or air(that is currently ahead of us) on K88 and we have a flush draw. Villain can give us better then needed odds to call if no more money went into the pot on future streets. However if villain is shoving his entire range when the flush misses on the turn giving us a bad price on the turn we were actually just burning money on the flop since we probably never actually had the price to realize just 1 street of equity.

This is a fair point, but in no way contradictory of what I said above.

You may have assigned too much equity for a single draw. If you face a bet on the flop that is not all-in, then it is a mistake is to count the equity for 2 draws instead of 1 when estimating your EV for that call. (This might be a spot to semi-bluff shove, btw.)

When I say you need X% equity to call a bet, that's total equity on all later decisions. This is something that is difficult to estimate, even as an intermediate level player, but it's an important idea in the long run. It's something to be mindful of, while you direct your study to more profitable areas.

Thank you for clarifying this point, though.


Afterthought:
In your example above, you'd assign villain a range, based on all previous actions you've observed. You'd examine the stack sizes and make a guess as to how much he'd bet on future streets, given various board runouts. Then you'd apply math and determine the "true" equity of your call. Obviously, this is complicated and relies on a lot of assumptions. The math is all simple algebra, but there's a lot of it to keep track of, and again... at the beginner level of poker, you have much more profitable ideas to learn about.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

This is a fair point, but in no way contradictory of what I said above.

You may have assigned too much equity for a single draw. If you face a bet on the flop that is not all-in, then it is a mistake is to count the equity for 2 draws instead of 1 when estimating your EV for that call. (This might be a spot to semi-bluff shove, btw.)

When I say you need X% equity to call a bet, that's total equity on all later decisions. This is something that is difficult to estimate, even as an intermediate level player, but it's an important idea in the long run. It's something to be mindful of, while you direct your study to more profitable areas.

Thank you for clarifying this point, though.


Afterthought:
In your example above, you'd assign villain a range, based on all previous actions you've observed. You'd examine the stack sizes and make a guess as to how much he'd bet on future streets, given various board runouts. Then you'd apply math and determine the "true" equity of your call. Obviously, this is complicated and relies on a lot of assumptions. The math is all simple algebra, but there's a lot of it to keep track of, and again... at the beginner level of poker, you have much more profitable ideas to learn about.

You're misusing the term equity as relates to poker. Equity is explicitly used as the percentage of the pot that would belong to a player on average via a hand vs hand comparison if the cards were rolled out in this game.