Wondering if I played this drawing hand properly...

Hey all, the focus of my game lately has been trying to make solid drawing hand decisions. Would love to have someone analyze this one.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($1.68)
MP1 ($1.97)
Hero (MP2) ($3.02)
MP3 ($1.06)
CO ($0.37)
Button ($3.67)
SB ($2.86)
BB ($2.02)
UTG ($0.98)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, 10
3 folds, Hero calls $0.02, MP3 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Button bets $0.08, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.06, MP3 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.27) J, 4, Q (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.28, Button calls $0.28, Hero calls $0.28

Turn: ($1.11) 2 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold

River: ($2.11) K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.12, Button calls $1.12

Total pot: $4.35 | Rake: $0.29

Personally I'd fold pre, as played definately fold on the flop sir! One of your outs completes the flush and I don't think you can count an ace as giving you the winning hand as the board is so wet, so you effectively had 3 outs.

Limp/calling a dominated hand like A,10 (suited or not) oop is bad preflop.

Calling a pot sized bet on the flop with just a gutshot and backdoor flush draw when some of your outs may be tainted is also bad. You have no real business in this hand in the first place and making this call oop on the flop is defo going to be very -EV. It's harder to extract value oop and there's no garuntee we even have big implied odds.

Turn is ok imo

Now that we've made our hand and luck boxed the river, we need to bet more. There's no point whatsoever c/c 2 streets oop if this is all we think we can extract (not that there is otherwise) I'd go for $1.90 or so since our hand is so well disguised.

id raise first in w/AT preflop, if i was re-raised id dump it, if just cold called we're back to this situation anyway.
I'd just check/fold flop. Theres a decent bit of equity in the board and im playing with a gutshot that might be no good.
i'd shove the river after hitting cause its basically a pot sized bet with your stack.

Yeah, at the time I was foolish enough to go by the odds my calculator was giving me, and I'm pretty sure that it was counting the 10's as potential outs for making a winning hand. I think this is the last time I'm going to trust my calculator for win odds.

Remember that humans program software and make machines so they can't be perfect.

Offcourse you got to fold A10. Why? cause you can be dominated bij AK AJ AQ and higher pockets. If you try to play this hand and you see that flop then you can do two things: Fold or bluff. Call isn't a good option. Now you have lose but you are hoping for a wonder. That don't came. But offcourse you have guts to play it.

This is my opinion about this. Keep on going

If I decide to go into this hand with AT (doesn't happen too often) I'm certainly raising it pf...not just calling with it. And like ryokan said, might fold to any significant raise.

As played I'm folding to the bet on the flop.

Pre-Flop call is meh...

Don't have ranges/reads, so will try to use pot/implied odds here.

REALLY don't like the call on the flop though, pot odds are horrible:

Odds of Making Straight on Flop: 4 outs on 47 cards = 8.5%
(Might only be 3 outs really as previous poster mentioned Kclubs may complete villain flush)
Pot Odds: .28 / (.28 +.28 + .27) = 34%

Implied Odds aren't good either, even if we assume both villains stack off when we hit and neither make a flush (absolute best case, not likely):
Implied Odds: .28 / (1.06 + 3.02) = 7%

Turn odds are closer and I think implied odds actually make it EV+:
Odds of Making Straight/Flush on Turn: 13 outs on 46 cards = 28%
(Might only be 12 outs really as previous poster mentioned Kclubs may complete villain flush)
Pot Odds: .50 / (1.11 +.50) = 31%
Implied Odds: .50 / (1.11 + .50 + 2.16) = 13%

Maybe you can juice these a little by counting Aces as outs but this does not seem compelling to me

Summary: Calling Flop Bet is -EV, Turn Bet probably slightly +EV

Please correct my math if any of this isn't right!!

Be honest with us now, how many outs did you count at the flop?

Fold or Raise pre-flop here. Preferably fold if you going to make a lot of mistakes postflop. If I raise and get a single caller, then I'm most lkely cbetting this board.

As played preflop, I c/f the flop here. If you notice MP3 was not the preflop aggressor, and is donking into the PFR in a multiway pot with a full PSB. Depending on his level of competency, this is usual great strength, and while you could potentially catch your draw and stack him, you aren't getting sufficient odds, and alot of the hands he could be donking either taint some of your outs or have significant redraws if you hit.

Turn is fine given you now have another 9 outs, and villain is giving you sufficient pot odds.

And yeah, bet more on the river. Some of his hands may have improved, such as KQ, T9. And given he got to the river here in a multway flop, his range is likely stronger than usual, and you can afford to put it in and likely get called a decent % of the time.

Also, what is this pot odds calculator you speak of? First off, a pot odds calculator is relatively un-necessary. It takes only a matter of minutes to sit down and learn to count outs, calculate equity with draws, and pot odds. And there is no way a T is going to help you, so obviously either the calculator is flawed, or your mis-using it.

fold preflop. you'll get into a lot of sticky spots when you hit an ace and you're facing a lot of aggression, only to find yourself value towned by AJ+

your river bet should be closer to pot. i wouldn't advocate a check raise here (in case you were thinking this) because a king is an overcard to the queen. if he's holding something like AQ he's going to probably check behind the river

Luco, I don't remember how many outs the calculator showed. By my count after the fact, I suspect it counted 10, though as I agree with previous responders that there's really only 4-7 there. I didn't go by the outs though, the calculator I was using compares win odds with pot odds, and while I don't remember what it showed me the win odds were, I do remember that they were favorable compared to the pot odds. I'm not saying they actually were, I'm just saying that's what the calculator showed me (hence why I'm no longer trusting it).


Stacks, the calculator I'm using is "Holdem Indicator." I use it 90% for it's ability to keep track of opponents stats, and for it to give me a quick rundown of the pot odds.

Originally Posted by Carroters

Limp/calling a dominated hand like A,10 (suited or not) oop is bad preflop.

Now that we've made our hand and luck boxed the river, we need to bet more. There's no point whatsoever c/c 2 streets oop if this is all we think we can extract (not that there is otherwise) I'd go for $1.90 or so since our hand is so well disguised.

Yeah, I wonder if as a general matter, if you kind of misplay a hand and hit a monster, you shouldn't think about this as a reason to increase the size of your value bets. I would actually say this is especially the case if you think you are up against a good player who is processing information about your hand.

The one silver lining of playing a hand poorly is that if your ship does come in, you are often going to be extremely well disguised. So take advantage of it when it happens.

er not so gud, not so bad, what we can call it (An average) or fine or normal!