Will I ever learn anything playing on Stars?

The reason I ask is that it's a complete fish-fest.

I do alright on the Limit ring games because playing good odds will always win in the long run, but I've just been knocked off the final table of 4 consecutive 45 man $12 sngs by having.....

KK cracked all-in preflop against 10 4 suited
AA cracked all-in preflop against Q2os
A set on the flop cracked by a runner-runner flush
JJ cracked after a 4bb raise UTG against 52os on sb

How can you ever get any better playing against this kind of opposition? I notice alot of people move away from stars when taking poker seriously, is this something I should consider or am I just having a bad run?

just be happy ppl call with these hands.......losing is just based on probablity. KK and AA can get cracked

stars is apparently the toughest place to play on the net. full tilt is also hard.

sites like party and pokerroom are much fishier.

poker is about winning money. you should be very happy to be playing against fish.
i asked this same question when i started playing and got the same answer.
you play poker to win money. how good you are at poker is basically your bankroll. when you win money you can move up the stakes and play against the better players

I thought, Stars is bunch of insufferable setfarmers....

There are much better sites to play, but they don't support PT. Boss Network is total donkfest, much softer than even Party.

So there's not really any point in switching sites then? I just feel like I'm not getting any better playing against these people. You do get the occasional tough game on stars, but the rest of the time I just find myself getting outdrawn by rubbish.

Are you mad about losing money (are you losing?) or about not being challenged/learning by playing with better players?

I'm winning money, but it's just so frustrating that I feel I have reached the point that I can't learn any more playing against such weak opposition. I dont fancy getting out of my banroll and playing higher stakes but I would like a bit more of a challenge on the sng front

I don't understand how new people always complain about the EXACT same thing. These shitty players are the ones that make us money. I love SNGs where ppl are throwing money into the pot. If you tighten up, you will win tons of money in the long run.

Since you are claiming to be winning, once you add a little more to your bankroll you will be rolled to move up.

I understand that we need fish to make money, and exploit this to the fullest on ring games.... But I also play sngs for the "fun factor" as a few hours of $0.50 / £1 can become quite tedious.

All I am asking is what sites have the toughest sngs as:

A. It's not fun playing against idiots on sngs
B. I'm not learning anything playing against idiots
C. I'm sick of getting outdrawnby absolute garbage

I used to play Party which really is shockingly bad, I moved to stars which in all fairness is a bit better, but I want the satisfation of actually knowing I've acheived something when coming 1st out 9/18/27/45 players instead of just knowin that I got lucky

There are only 3 ways to prevent being outdrawn by weaker hands

1. Don't play poker
2. Make sure you're always the one playing the weaker hand
3. Play against people who never play weak hands

None of those sounds fun to me, but to each hisher own.

Wait till you play $100NL on stars or Full tilt for 100K hands at break even, sitting at tables with 5 TAGGs playing 16/12 . You'll be searching for the people your bitching out just to enjoy poker again. You think you can beat the better players easier?? Take your whole bankroll to the highest table stakes you can find, and you will never get sucked out on, donked into or lose to a 54o hand ever again.

GL

Yea wait till you move up in stakes a few and you'll long for those days again. People tend to move away from stars because it isnt as fishy as some of the other sites. It you are finding it "too fishy" then milk it. If you get your money in ahead 5/6 times and get drawn out then be thankful that youve found somewhere you can get it in ahead 5/6 times and stick at it.

If you are at the stage in your poker career where you think the players are just too bad then get it in with the best of it and wait to make money. Dont worry about" getting better" until the competition gets harder.

You'll never learn anything--if you don't beat those suckers and move up in limits.

Seriously, what a stupid question. If you're mad that they're such sorry players, then FIND BETTER PLAYERS. Of course, that is THE STUPIDEST THING I've ever heard. Play the worst players you can find, silly.

If this is an ego thing and you want to beat the best players, you should have moved up to the proper limits a long time ago.

Simply put, if you get your money in while you are ahead, you did your job. After that it's up to the poker gods.
Play enough hands and things will even out.
It has too, it's the law of averages.

As for Stars/FullTilt and the setminers....
Just because a player is a Super TAG does not make them good.
In fact it makes them quite Exploitable.
A strong LAG style will tend to put a dent in their stack assuming you can play strong after the flop. (many think they can, but very few actually do)

move up quickly if it's so easy and then play the tougher players

ok, thanks for the replies. I guess I'll just try to make the most of the bad calls while I still can (should be moving up stakes soon anyway if all goes to plan)

In a year or so you're going to be SO embarrassed at this thread

thats all they are...bad calls. those profit big time over the long haul.

and you ARE learning...how to deal with tilt. one of the most valuable lessons you can learn...and you are learning it on the cheap.

something tells me that if you are not "licking your chops" when you see your AA get cracked by something silly, you are definitely NOT READY for tougher games.

you should relish in the "bad games." they are the only place you will make money at a high rate. move up in levels and, yes, play can be more "predictable," for awhile, but you will only win when your AA gets up against QQ+, or your AK goes up to AQ. because these villains are too smart to chase AT into your aggression...and will drop the hand before the river.

you'll figure it out...in time.

Simple answer: You will make more money against bad players and you will make less money against good players. Cherish the bad play while you still can.

Originally Posted by biondino

In a year or so you're going to be SO embarrassed at this thread

lol this made me chuckle (thinks to chadrians thread)

if you seriously find stars fishy then you must be super hot, if you have to have the action vs the best players and that is a must for you to enjoy poker, then surely just move up a level or 2 and play a little underolled?

Thanks again for all the replies - I suppose dealing with tilt is my biggest learner here.

Is stars really not that fishy? I've only played Party, Stars and betfair. While Party is easily the fishiest, Stars isn't much better.


As for the embarassment at this thread... I'm regretting it already lol. It was written in the middle of some big-time tilt lol

At the stakes I suspect you are playing everywhere is fishy.

well, I just broke the $500 barrier so another few hours grinding out the ring games (and using up my t$) and I will be rolled to move up

you're rolled to move up to $25nl cash games if you have a $500BR

Originally Posted by Pelion

At the stakes I suspect you are playing everywhere is fishy.

BINGO!

well... I know you all warned me, but I hit $700 tonight and decided it was time to move up to $1/$2 6-max.... and I got absolutely destroyed! lost 2 and a half buy-ins very quickly and was amazed at the difference in skill levels between .50/$1

I was expecting it to be a pretty easy transition because I've played $1/$2 profitably when under-rolled but I was very very wrong.

Anybody for -$17.69bb/100 ? No, me neither. Back to .50/$1 for me!

Was that $1/$2 NLHE?? Seems like an awfully big risk with only 700 dollars... Isn't 2 1/2 BIs most of your roll?

You need to read this because you are under rolled. This is a little out dated but it is still good.

Bankroll Management

fixed limit


anyway, I've come to the conclusion I was playing good poker but getting ridiculous bad beats over and over. Lost $200 so my first 5 buy-ins.

Every hand seemed like a bad beat. One of the better players even noted that I was playing well altough I kept losing.

jib, you also need to be reading the "SH limit" threads.

you will find the majority of us are NL people here. with a few of us that dabble back and forth.

at .25/.50 and .50/1 you will not see much of a difference in a limit game. you need about 300-400 BBs to consider yourself "rolled." maybe a tad more for 6max. besides, that downswing you just mentioned at 1/2 should be considered part of your "roll." dont just move down because you lost a bit.

besides, if you play limit, what is a "buy-in?" the 20 BBs they recommend, or 30BBs (the suggested amount)?

PM me, if you want a little detail about what i've learned so far in the limit arena...one i am still no expert at, mind you.

Originally Posted by Jibalob

... One of the better players even noted that I was playing well altough I kept losing.

please dont tell me you are naive enough to believe this as gospel?

we tell fish all the time that they play goot. thats part of getting them to stick around.

you need to be sure you know the player saying that before you go on believing what he/she says.

I use this all the time. I praise the fish and tell them they had me, I got lucky and how I wish I had teh balls to play as good as them. You sir, need to learn alot.

Originally Posted by RipperJ

I don't understand how new people always complain about the EXACT same thing. These shitty players are the ones that make us money. I love SNGs where ppl are throwing money into the pot. If you tighten up, you will win tons of money in the long run.

Since you are claiming to be winning, once you add a little more to your bankroll you will be rolled to move up.

nh.

You can learn that making money is easy

You can learn to hate every second you spend playing poker.

Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

I use this all the time. I praise the fish and tell them they had me, I got lucky and how I wish I had teh balls to play as good as them. You sir, need to learn alot.

It was after everyone had left the table, only two of us left both sitting out.

Anyway, I'm gonna leave this thread now because its gone way off topic

Good, you can leave other places too.

It's the cycle of a noob around here

1. OMG cool site I think I'll make a post
2. let's see, Im not winning so poker must be rigged
3. I think I'll post about it to piss off the regular members who have heard this argument 5000 times before
4. wait, why am I getting berated? PS is the one that's rigged, not me
5. These guys are assholes
6. Oh wait, you're supposed to fold gutshots?
7. Ok, I'll stick around and learn how to play real poker
8. Damn, these guys can be cool
9. ????
10. Profit

Originally Posted by Jibalob

fixed limit


anyway, I've come to the conclusion I was playing good poker but getting ridiculous bad beats over and over. Lost $200 so my first 5 buy-ins.

Every hand seemed like a bad beat. One of the better players even noted that I was playing well altough I kept losing.

Stop listening to players at your table and looking at your hands on your own to justify whether you played well or not. Post some hands in the Limit and NL Forum and let our resident experts help you out. I'm willing to bet that a few of your hands were poorly played and was the real reason you lost so much.

Originally Posted by Sprayed

Stop listening to players at your table and looking at your hands on your own to justify whether you played well or not. Post some hands in the Limit and NL Forum and let our resident experts help you out. I'm willing to bet that a few of your hands were poorly played and was the real reason you lost so much.

I'll set the over/under at 9 per 100 played badly and take the over.

Originally Posted by Jibalob

fixed limit

Every hand seemed like a bad beat. One of the better players even noted that I was playing well altough I kept losing.

LOL. I do this to keep donators at the table.

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Good, you can leave other places too.

It's the cycle of a noob around here

1. OMG cool site I think I'll make a post
2. let's see, Im not winning so poker must be rigged
3. I think I'll post about it to piss off the regular members who have heard this argument 5000 times before
4. wait, why am I getting berated? PS is the one that's rigged, not me
5. These guys are assholes
6. Oh wait, you're supposed to fold gutshots?
7. Ok, I'll stick around and learn how to play real poker
8. Damn, these guys can be cool
9. ????
10. Profit

forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't this the BEGGINERS circle section of the forum? It's easy to be smug once you've been here a while and know how everything goes, I bet you made a stupid thread or two when you were starting out.

"How can you ever get any better playing against this kind of opposition? I notice alot of people move away from stars when taking poker seriously, is this something I should consider or am I just having a bad run?"

Who said/agreed with this?

Stars has the best amount of fishy players and the best competition consistently play and win there.

If thats not a combination you want to win moneyagainst worse players/play better players, then I don't know what you are looking for.

Originally Posted by Jibalob

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Good, you can leave other places too.

It's the cycle of a noob around here

1. OMG cool site I think I'll make a post
2. let's see, Im not winning so poker must be rigged
3. I think I'll post about it to piss off the regular members who have heard this argument 5000 times before
4. wait, why am I getting berated? PS is the one that's rigged, not me
5. These guys are assholes
6. Oh wait, you're supposed to fold gutshots?
7. Ok, I'll stick around and learn how to play real poker
8. Damn, these guys can be cool
9. ????
10. Profit

forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't this the BEGGINERS circle section of the forum? It's easy to be smug once you've been here a while and know how everything goes, I bet you made a stupid thread or two when you were starting out.

He absolutely did, and you will too. We all have, and when we look back, we see that they were right, we were wrong, and we slowly get a little thicker, wiser and richer. Don't take offense at this, it'll get worse before it gets better. How else do you weed out the weak. Stick around and learn the ropes. Prepare to be bitched at, praised and even laughed at. It's all part of FTR. We care, but you gotta be able to stand up and take a hit. There is no magic formula, it's about criticism, that's how you learn. Do something wrong and post it. Have twenty people tell you why it's wrong. Your on the right track when what you did starts debate, not get the general population all agreeing you suck.

I expect the debate etc etc and realise that the more experienced players DO know better than me, it was the:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Good, you can leave other places too.

comment that wound me up

Dude, grinding against bad players at low limits will teach you 2 of the most profitable things -

- Patience
- The ability to deal with variance and not tilt.

Originally Posted by Jibalob

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Good, you can leave other places too.

It's the cycle of a noob around here

1. OMG cool site I think I'll make a post
2. let's see, Im not winning so poker must be rigged
3. I think I'll post about it to piss off the regular members who have heard this argument 5000 times before
4. wait, why am I getting berated? PS is the one that's rigged, not me
5. These guys are assholes
6. Oh wait, you're supposed to fold gutshots?
7. Ok, I'll stick around and learn how to play real poker
8. Damn, these guys can be cool
9. ????
10. Profit

forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't this the BEGGINERS circle section of the forum? It's easy to be smug once you've been here a while and know how everything goes, I bet you made a stupid thread or two when you were starting out.

Lol - spenda, he's onto you here

Jib, it's his way. Think of it as tough love. Maybe start a new thread with a slightly less muddledheaded theme and we'll get some proper poker discussion going.

Originally Posted by Jibalob

I bet you made a stupid thread or two when you were starting out.

A few? Playa I made a million. Well, actually about 1700 of them. I still make them today. Hell, this is one of them and so was the one earlier in this thread.

I was brash and arrogant when I came here. Problem was, I had no idea what the fuck I was talking about. Now Im brash, arrrogant, and humbled by my realization that I know only about 10% of what there is to know about this stupid game.

Just no more rigged posts please. You're playing for a lot less money that the guys posting in this thread. They takes beats costing them thousands a day but they get past it. Learn to do the same and you'll be better off.

Oh yea, welcome to FTR

Thanks for the more helpful post, I'll bear that all in mind

Don't worry about the "rigged posts", I'm not that much of a noob lol.

Originally Posted by Jibalob

...Anyway, I'm gonna leave this thread now because its gone way off topic

i always like this comment when you post another 3 times. nice.

as for the thread going off topic, wasnt it YOU that mentioned you received compliments about your play? seemed we are just following your lead...after all, it IS your thread, right?

i understand you are new to this forum, jib, and if i may impart a couple words...

notice the "beginner's forum" is littered with people that have hundreds of posts under their belts? they are here to "shoot str8" with you and tell you directly when you are being stoopid or smart. we are here to help. complaining to us/about us will only decrease your shot at receiving future help.

sounds to me like you ARE rather new to the game. your original question and other comments in this thread alone suggest you need to grow some thicker skin to survive...

both in FTR and in poker.

good luck with your endeavor. hope you stick around.

Originally Posted by Jibalob

Thanks for the more helpful post, I'll bear that all in mind

Don't worry about the "rigged posts", I'm not that much of a noob lol.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's coming next week, after you hit a real downswing.