Why do I suck at NL ring games

I have ben playing online for about a year now. What started as somthing to do for a little fun has turned into a modest second income. I mostly play limit and sngs and mtts and do quite well. The problem is my Nl ring game sucks. I play pretty decent Nl tournys have won a few and finish in the money on SNGs regulerly. I keep a perment bankroll on pacific of $200 and cash out some when it gets over $400. I also keep $500 in neteller strictly for bonus whoring and cash out some when it gets up over
$800. I know theres a lot of information on how to play NL here. But since my tourny play is already pretty solid my questions are:
1. What do i need to do Diffrent in ring play then what i do in tourny play?
2. What do I need to do the same?
3. What stakes should i play?
4. Should I play diffrent stakes /strtagy while bonus whoring VS. regualer play or should i stick with liimit play for that?
5. Should I change my bankroll Stratagy?

Don't play drunk?

About what you need to do differently from tournaments -

1. Don't raise as much to steal blinds... there's not much money in it. If there are some limpers in or a small raise ahead of you, then you have a pot worth taking.

2. Play more speculative hands in position, for cheap. Suited connectors and gapped cards, baby pairs. Focus on roping people in when you hit monsters with those hands. This is not always plausible in tournament play because of the limits on your stack, but in ring games you're only limited to your bankroll.

3. Don't deploy legit tournament tactics like going all in with middle and small pairs. In ring games there's no pressing need to be this aggressive, and a lot of times you'll find yourself staring down the wrong end of an 80-20 domination. In tournaments people do this because of being short-stacked and escalating blinds, but in a ring game you can always rebuy.

4. Be selectively aggressive. Tournament players fall into two categories: really aggressive/loose and not as aggressive, which even encompasses a lot of good, smart, ordinarily aggressive players. After the true screwballs have been bounced from a tourney, everybody kind of lives in fear and can be pushed around because they don't want to go out on a single bad call. In ring games, the screwballs can rebuy... and then there's people who are good & just don't take kindly to bullying. If you find yourself way too often bluffing hard and being called down, that's a leak.

My ring game SUCKS at this moment. It seems like I use rings to launder money won from S&Gs and MTTs (very solid ITM in those) because I suck so bad in the ring right now.

I know my ring leaks:

People have no fear. Sure. They'll call hoping for that last card of their suit to complete their flush. Which leads to leak # 1 - Disbelief

"Did he really call ALL those bets waiting for that particular card?"

Yes. He did. They do it all the time and I fall for it. When I have position on them and they are calling, calling, calling until the magical shit card comes (you know the one.. IT GLOWS) then they bet like 3/4 the big pot... AHAHHHHH YOU'RE KIDDING ME!!

It makes you speak ASL (Asterisks as a Second Lanugage): "YOU **** *** ******** *** ******** *** ********* *** **!!!!!!! *** ****!!"

They do it. All the time. There is no fear. There is reload and they know that they'll get paid.

LEAK #2 - Raising to ISOLATE (MYSELF FROM MY MONEY)

Sure.. It doesn't keep 'em from calling it's like a peice of cheese in the mousetrap. They think - WOOWOWOW BIG POT COMING!! I'M IN AND NOT LEAVING!!

I don't raise to isolate AT ALL anymore because all it ever did was isolate me from my chips. I raise to sweeten the pot. I know they are going to call, may as well make it juicy for my drawing hand because TPTK ain't **** in these games.

LEAK #3 - Ring Games during tourneys

I play rings when playing tourneys all the time. I'll usually blow some $$s on the ring AND blow my well-earned chip lead because my focus has left the tourney. You may as well be cooking or something, it's just as bad of a distraction, but cooking doesn't cost you chips.

Anyways - It's frustrating and I understand now how a person that does good in tourneys can suck soo bad in rings. That's not saying that people can't do both, it's recognizing that you are mixing styles that do not mix very well. The advanced techniques used to run deep in tourneys and #1s in S&Gs do not translate to optimal ring play.

ANways - I hope I gave you some solace. Stick with what works. I've taken a break from rings and went back to my bread and butter or multitable S&Gs, but I still feel the urge to ring it sometimes..


It's like that scary movie from a few years ago:

"BEFORE YOU GO BROKE... YOU PLAY THE RING.."

LOL, robert you are one great poster. hope to see more of your stuff on FTR.

Originally Posted by Robert Tiltin'

My ring game SUCKS at this moment. It seems like I use rings to launder money won from S&Gs and MTTs (very solid ITM in those) because I suck so bad in the ring right now.

I know my ring leaks:

People have no fear. Sure. They'll call hoping for that last card of their suit to complete their flush. Which leads to leak # 1 - Disbelief

"Did he really call ALL those bets waiting for that particular card?"

Yes. He did. They do it all the time and I fall for it. When I have position on them and they are calling, calling, calling until the magical shit card comes (you know the one.. IT GLOWS) then they bet like 3/4 the big pot... AHAHHHHH YOU'RE KIDDING ME!!

It makes you speak ASL (Asterisks as a Second Lanugage): "YOU **** *** ******** *** ******** *** ********* *** **!!!!!!! *** ****!!"

They do it. All the time. There is no fear. There is reload and they know that they'll get paid.

Something that works for me: When you know they're waiting for that miracle card---put em all in on the turn. Sometimes you'll take down the pot right there, mostly you'll end up winning when the river doesn't bring the miracle card--sometimes (and this sucks) they call and get it.

I don't even try to bet them out of pots like that anymore--because you're right, they won't (usually) . Give them a decision that you will only win in the long run.

This might only apply to low limits-I play mostly 10/25-but there, it's an awesome move.

Ok so the reason I suck is because players that suck worse then me draw out and beat me?

The thing to remember with tourneys is there's the "You're broke you're done" even the worst most loose players tighten (IE stop calling your pot size bets with bottom pair) up when they have a real chance at big, big money.

That tends to not happen in low stakes rings at all and bad players will keep being bad players (Though they are still being bad players in the tourney too when they tighten up.).

If you wanna get better at ring start at the bottom and work your way up, .05/.10 is a cakewalk, you're waiting on cards and you tremendously overvalue them when you get them. You'll feel cold runs of cards a lot when you get them, but when you are running hot, you are running REAL hot. Small sets get paid, flushes get paid, boats get paid, all the shit that any player worth his salt who looks at the board and wonders "Is my middle pocket pair still good" instantly knows the answer is no... but these players don't seem to realize that. Stay there until you're comfortable enough to move up. Maybe set a goal for yourself "I'll start with X buyins and leave with Y" see Rilla's bankroll management thread for more information though it sounds like you're substantially bankrolled.

Really, if you wanna play cash games at all, you have to start at the bottom... The argument that a lot of players use (Not you necessarily) is "Omg I need to play against real tight players who can actually lay hands down to be profitable" is frigging retarded. When you're playing any stakes you will need to play against the table texture and if you can't play against consistently horrible players then you shouldn't be playing higher stakes ring games.

Great thread. Thanks for the advice.

I have consistently been placing ITM in SnG's lately, but I get killed in ring games.

Things like people calling my PFR with J8s vs. my QQ and a flop like J 4 7 pops up and I'm like, "Oh I got this baby" and bet the pot. Then the guy raises me all in and I'm like, "AJ? Your TPTK just cost you alot of chips" so I call then I get busted.

That and when someone has Ax suited and 1 of the same suit comes on the board, they'll call me to the river and sometimes they'll somehow land runner runner and make their miracle nut flush and cost me alot of money.

So yeah because of all that I've taken a week or two so break from them, maybe when I get in the mood I'll give it a go with what I've learned from here.

I'm pretty much the opposite to whats is happenning here. Basically i suck at tourneys and drag a bloody packet in low level NL rings. I now make more at it than what most of my mates make at there jobs. So.. some of the things i've picked up... there will be chasers.. and if someone bets hard when that 3rd heart shows.. learn to lay it down, there will be people out there that will bluff you but at low limit the +EV move is fold because most of the time they've been a chasing fool. And if you've got an over pair or TPTK and you bet the flop.. if you get raised big, you fold or push. no call, if you call and your hand doesnt improve on the turn your facing a bet and having to fold, and you've just been bullied out of half your stack.

Unless you know a player well or they've been acting like a damn fool for 15 hands in a row.. then respect their bets.

Something that works for me: When you know they're waiting for that miracle card---put em all in on the turn. Sometimes you'll take down the pot right there, mostly you'll end up winning when the river doesn't bring the miracle card--sometimes (and this sucks) they call and get it.

I fully agree with this strategy, sure it sucks when they hit, but part of low limit games is that you expierience a higher level of variance than you would at the higher limits.

For you guys who are struggling to make anything at the NL rings, start at the absolute lowest level (stars has a 1c/2c game) and stay there until you own it like the little bitch it is, then move up and do it again.

why you suck at ring games??


you cant let go of AA on a ragged board when someone pushes all in and a third person calls.

you cant let go of AK.

you push all in with mediocre strength (pair, two pair)

you are not reading the board properly and cross referencing that with how your opponents bet.