you can't get them to fold gut shots at this level so how do you expect you will get them to fold an oesd. Also it is easy to say you should have folded the river but when we have multiple callers on a drawy board and the flop or turn completes drawsand they start fireing please conceiter the fact that they just hit. At these levels you aint gonna see many floaters. Oh and i am talking about the first hand in this post.