Quote Originally Posted by pokerroomace
Quote Originally Posted by SHAKE
Quote Originally Posted by Fnord
BTW: I'm talking about NLHE. In Limit I mix it up and only open limp at loose tables where I start adding Axs and pairs under 77.

Part of the problem I have is people do notice that I play tight and raising from EP will get less dead money into the pot and once they start putting in chips, they're going to keep putting in money until they see a flop or have their stack threatened.

My biggest concern is getting isolated by an aggro player, however a single raise isn't going to get the job done as I usually can count on 1-2 other loose players fustrating his efforts to isolate and bluff me.

By limping from early position I get the chance to play good hands against bad players, but get to see what stacks/players are in the pot before I commit chips to the pot.
Sure, i agree. I think a BIG mistake good players make is chasing out weak players when they have the goods. I undestand limiting the field, but having a fish in the hand on the flop when you have AA-KK or somthing good isnt a bad thing, fish make more mistakes then us and mistakes line our pockets. I think alot of good players try to chase out the fish with a good hand. Ie you have KK on the button and two fisj=h in the blinds, i probly limp or min raise. Same deal with a weaker hand in position, if you feel you make better choices then your opps, you have position, and you have a decent stack, play with them!!!
this is a big leak.

players often think they are being "smart" by slow-playing their big hands. they are not. there is obviously a place for slow-playing, but open-limping with AA on the button (or even minraising) with fairly deep stacks (50bb+) is not a good play.

players complain when the fish calls their bluff with TPWK after they had bet all 3 streets on a scary board. what i'm thinking after a hand like this is, when i get my AA or big hand i'm going to bet, bet, bet. slowplaying is a big mistake here.

you aren't being smart or deceptive by checking the flop and turn with your set and then getting in a value bet on the river that he would have folded on the flop, because you gave away the opportunity to win a big pot against the fish.

fish will put in money with weak holdings. playing a small pot against these players when you actually have a hand is a big mistake.

playing a big hand fast is more deceptive than playing slow.

reasons to raise with AA on button against the fish in the blinds are to build a pot and take a huge pot against them when they flop TP. and to make them at least pay to outdraw you.

and btw, you may think you can outplay the fish by openlimping AA on the btn, but you can't.
Well, in the post your refering to, im basing alot of what im saying off of a 3 part artical mike caro wrote for poker news magazine. Limping AA on the button can be dangerous but very far from a leak. A leak is playing every Ace, or any suited card, or c-betting only when you have it. Instances that occur alot. Having AA or KK on the button, dosent happen alot, nor do i limp alot with it. Maby 1 evey 4 times. So givin i play 40 hands an hour live, its maby once a week, mabey twice. Hardly a leak.

Second i think again your looking at this problem very one dimentionaly. Fish make alot of mistakes, having them in the pot with us isnt a bad thing. Mot of our money comes from playing pots with fish. I think the general idea of my post might ring truer in this analagy.

Lets say you have the button with AA and the C/o o/r's. I would call rather then then 3-bet (if the blinds were weak players who i thought would call one (1/- 1-1/2 more bets) rather then 2 or 2 1/2 more. They are going to be puting money into a pot that right now i have a rather large equity edge in. not only because of my cards, but my over all ability to out play them. I dont in any way want to Discourage this.