When to fold AA, preflop?

The other day I was pondering when is it +EV to FOLD AA preflop. I can think of at least one situation, off the top of my head and am wondering if anyone can show some math which will allow me to figure out other situations, if others exist.

When I said +EV to fold, obviously you can't win money by folding, so I guess it's better to rephrase that by saying "When is folding AA pre the least of 3 evils?" IOW, when calling or raising is -EV, folding is the best option.

I am asking because the idea seems counterintuitive and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere online or in print.

Assuming someone can show the math, has anyone actually ever folded AA preflop?

[ ] understands EV

the only situation is in flat payout structure tournaments like DoNs or some satellites. But who cares?
lock?

Originally Posted by manfredi

Thas anyone actually ever folded AA preflop?

yes, math = too many tables + no auto-timebank = FUCK

I'm referring strictly to NLHE cash games.

What kind of an answer is "who cares, lock?"

Originally Posted by daven

yes, math = too many tables + no auto-timebank = FUCK

HAHA

Just Never ever fold aces pre
all you need to know really

Originally Posted by lukem1990uk

HAHA

Just Never ever fold aces pre
all you need to know really

Aww, come on guys... I'm being serious. Knowing when to fold a hand is a HUGE part of poker and understanding the math behind folding AA pre seems particularly relevant to me.

By the way, 'never ever', if taken literally, is the wrong answer.

please present a detailed description of your revelation. I'm obviously too dumb to understand otherwise. I look forward to being wowed by your genius.

Originally Posted by manfredi

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere online or in print.

Its being discussed here . http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...op-185048.html

Thanks for the link, I'll look into it. LOL

Originally Posted by daven

please present a detailed description of your revelation. I'm obviously too dumb to understand otherwise. I look forward to being wowed by your genius.

I will post the one situation I thought of, if nobody gets around to showing me some math that would help me find other situations, if they exist. I suspect it's the same math that shows when it's correct to fold ATC.

Suppose there is a villain on the button who is 1/0 over 100 hands, with 0% 3-bet. It's folded to you on CO, and you raise it up to 3x. Villain snap re-reaises all in. You should fold here because:
1-You are out of position.
2-His snap all-in represents strength.
3-He is reraising with the top 0% of 0% hands, thus his range is the top 00%, whereas AA is only top 1%, so you will be behind.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by VoidCog

Suppose there is a villain on the button who is 1/0 over 100 hands, with 0% 3-bet. It's folded to you on CO, and you raise it up to 3x. Villain snap re-reaises all in. You should fold here because:
1-You are out of position.
2-His snap all-in represents strength.
3-He is reraising with the top 0% of 0% hands, thus his range is the top 00%, whereas AA is only top 1%, so you will be behind.

Thoughts?

This is getting warm. VERY WARM.

villain turns cards face up, shows AA, rake cost isn't compensated for by the dead money zzzzzzzzzzzz

sorry if i pissed on your parade

Originally Posted by daven

villain turns cards face up, shows AA, rake cost isn't compensated for by the dead money zzzzzzzzzzzz

LOL, yes this is what I am considering. Suppose you are IP against a villian whom you know only plays AA. He either folds pre or pushes all in with AA. Every hand. If he pushes, your AA becomes an easy fold.

If you call, you both have an equal chance of winning via flush by the river or you chop the pot for a loss. Since the flushes cancel out, calling the shove is -EV, assuming the blinds don't pay the rake (or money that you hope will become dead money) and I guess also assuming his stack is big enough to make the pot rakeable.

What I was hoping to learn is the math relating to how to factor the rake into pre-flop equity calculations.

This isn't a parade, it's a serious question that I'm trying to learn the answer to.

Are there any other situations such as family pots with shortstacks in which folding AA is the best option?

Originally Posted by manfredi

.

Are there any other situations such as family pots with shortstacks in which folding AA is the best option?

Earthquakes and tsunami season are also +EV times to Fold AA pre . Spoon will know how to factor that in.

{Locked}

Come on.