Whats your average won from a limp-to-set PP?

My stats for sets (or rather potential sets) are abysmal. In 8500 hands I have had 365 PP TT or lower. Over all those hands I have made a whopping $1.77. Yep, that’s about 9 big bets at my current stakes (though ~50% are from lower stakes). I have considered not playing them at all but there is no reason to since they are still +$ in the long run. I don’t think it is how I play them. I use the standard of seeing/calling up to 5bb PFR to see the flop and either drop it there or only call min bets to see the next street. I just seem to get unlucky with them. I’ll often set and then get all folds to a standard flop bet. Or I end up losing to a straights/flushes or over set. (Last night I lost a set of 6s to a set of As) <shrug>

What is your average BB made for your PPs? I’d like to see what it *should* be.

Edit: LOL, that works out to .02 BB per PP.

5bb might be a bit much as you move up...it was easy to call that on the $.01/$.02 'cause the implied odds are so insanely huge, but those go down with the stakes...

But I still don't have PT (been playing a lot of tourneys), so I couldn't tell you how I've faired. You're welcomed to buy it for me so I can tell you though =)

I've made $439.99 on my small pocket pairs in the last 28k hands.

1,169 pocket pairs
.55 BB/Hand

If I just look at my small PP's starting when I stopped calling quite so large of bets (now I call up to 1/15th of our stacks instead of 1/10) I only have 7k hands to go on from after that change, but i'm now at 1.17BB/hand (so far)

So whats that means is quit calling huge raises with low pocket paris heads up even 3 way . You just burn up chips. 7 1/2 to 1 on flop

Originally Posted by Laeelin

I've made $439.99 on my small pocket pairs in the last 28k hands.

1,169 pocket pairs
.55 BB/Hand

If I just look at my small PP's starting when I stopped calling quite so large of bets (now I call up to 1/15th of our stacks instead of 1/10) I only have 7k hands to go on from after that change, but i'm now at 1.17BB/hand (so far)

So what hands are you categorising as small pocket pairs?

Btw, What do you classify this as?



I was 90% sure I had the worse hand on the flop after the reraise, but I decided to call because there was so much money to be won if my 3rd king hit... only like a 5% chance, but I waas sure that if it hit I would take both stacks.. so i called, and got the perfect card.

A violation of pot odds that payed off?

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

Originally Posted by Laeelin

I've made $439.99 on my small pocket pairs in the last 28k hands.

1,169 pocket pairs
.55 BB/Hand

If I just look at my small PP's starting when I stopped calling quite so large of bets (now I call up to 1/15th of our stacks instead of 1/10) I only have 7k hands to go on from after that change, but i'm now at 1.17BB/hand (so far)

So what hands are you categorising as small pocket pairs?

TT - 22

used the same hands as the above post

Originally Posted by Laeelin

Btw, What do you classify this as?



I was 90% sure I had the worse hand on the flop after the reraise, but I decided to call because there was so much money to be won if my 3rd king hit... only like a 5% chance, but I waas sure that if it hit I would take both stacks.. so i called, and got the perfect card.

Nice pot! Hard to judge the play without a complete hand history though.

delete

When i was a young buck in dallas, texas they used to call some pairs q's - cloutier

***** Hand History for Game 2517620669 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 11, 16:48:10 EDT 2005
Table Table 36586 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: Laeelin ( $68.80 )
Seat 10: ht2success ( $42.50 )
Seat 4: tuchi99 ( $47.35 )
Seat 3: PTR4HND ( $153.08 )
Seat 2: poleary21 ( $17.53 )
Seat 9: hukitor ( $57.20 )
Seat 6: rayfar ( $64.57 )
Seat 1: Hahamood ( $29 )
Seat 8: sabahix ( $15.17 )
Seat 7: Solimier ( $49.50 )
ht2success posts small blind [$0.25].
Hahamood posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Laeelin [ Kh Kc ]
poleary21 folds.
PTR4HND calls [$0.50].
tuchi99 folds.
Laeelin raises [$2].
rayfar folds.
Solimier folds.
sabahix folds.
hukitor folds.
ht2success calls [$1.75].
Hahamood folds.
PTR4HND calls [$1.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, 4c, 9c ]
ht2success checks.
PTR4HND checks.
Laeelin bets [$4].
ht2success calls [$4].
PTR4HND raises [$8].
Laeelin calls [$4].
ht2success raises [$8].
PTR4HND calls [$4].


I had a $4 bet to call here, there was only $30 in the pot at this pont, but there was another ~$180 I would win if I hit.

Implied odds made the call worth it.


soo...

Laeelin calls [$4].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ] (would have folded to anything other than a king.)
ht2success checks.
PTR4HND bets [$3].
Laeelin calls [$3].
ht2success raises [$10].
PTR4HND calls [$7].
Laeelin raises [$14].
ht2success is all-In.
PTR4HND calls [$18.50].
Laeelin is all-In.
PTR4HND calls [$26.30].
** Dealing River ** [ 2d ]
Laeelin shows [ Kh, Kc ] three of a kind, kings.
ht2success doesn't show [ 9s, 9d ] three of a kind, nines.
PTR4HND shows [ 9h, 8c ] two pairs, nines and eights.
Laeelin wins $52.60 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, kings.
Laeelin wins $125 from the main pot with three of a kind, kings.

Wow he reraises 1 bet, then yeah might as well i was thinking he came over the top for like 20 bucks or something , he was definately not protecting his hand. Id say good call preflop u probably could of raised it a tad more like 3 bucks or so. Because of the limper. But good postflop i dont know anyone who wouldn't call it in that situation

*post removed, I see what you were thinking now =)

delete

I did, thats why i removed it while you were writeing this...

We were just posting at the same time... again... =)

Originally Posted by Laeelin

Btw, What do you classify this as?

This falls into the category made famous by Ali G.:

Booyahkashah!!!!

the guy was not protecting his hand and let you catch that K. nice pot.

I'm so glad this hand picked this time to hit though... like 10 min later I lost $128 in a AA vs KK when he hit a flush..

Win some, lose some =)

Do you think this is true...

In a tournament, someone who flops a set wants to slow play. Of course, if there's heavy action on the flop he is going to push, like if he has pocket 3s and the flop comes A K 3. As long as there's not a scary draw on the flop, the set flopper goes into check-calling mode in hopes of wiping you out on the river.

But in a ring game, it's easier to smell the flopped set. Player is trying to limp but calls a decent raise....flop comes rags and he puts in a big bet immediately. In a ring game, flopping a set means you want to get paid on every street.

Agree/disagree?

I laid down KK the other day in a ring when a limp-caller put in a 2Xpot bet on a raggy flop.

At my level players limping PF but willing to call PF raises is common. No reason to think he has PP.

It is true that a ring player wants to see bets on all streets. But in my case I won't overbet the pot. If I were to do that I would usualy get folds all around. If the pot is $.40, Ill bet $.30 and lead out with $.50 on the turn unless I am getting reraised in which case I'll push harder. That certainly isn't over playing it. So I would say it is equaly hard to detect a set in the ring.

Originally Posted by baudib

Do you think this is true...

In a tournament, someone who flops a set wants to slow play. Of course, if there's heavy action on the flop he is going to push, like if he has pocket 3s and the flop comes A K 3. As long as there's not a scary draw on the flop, the set flopper goes into check-calling mode in hopes of wiping you out on the river.

But in a ring game, it's easier to smell the flopped set. Player is trying to limp but calls a decent raise....flop comes rags and he puts in a big bet immediately. In a ring game, flopping a set means you want to get paid on every street.

Agree/disagree?

I laid down KK the other day in a ring when a limp-caller put in a 2Xpot bet on a raggy flop.

Really depends on the player, If it's a bad player I would suspect that he doesnt have a set, because they normally dont bet that much... they try to slowplay more.

A good player is much more likely to raise big hoping the other player has overcards.

This thread is sooo hijacked. But on we go!

I had a $4 bet to call here, there was only $30 in the pot at this pont, but there was another ~$180 I would win if I hit.

Since the final pot was ~$180, and you put in roughly 1/3 of that, and $30 was already in the pot, you had another ~$100 to win. Let's actually figure the implied odds, shall we?

Your chance of hitting on the next card ('cause you're going to have to pay more on the turn, no question), is 2/47. In theory here, you're putting $4 to gain $130, you need 4/134. Comes out to be 4.255% vs 2.985%, which does, in fact, give you the odds to call...but it's close. And it assumes that you will, every time, get their entire stacks. Tougher call then it would seem.

Originally Posted by CrunchyNuts

This thread is sooo hijacked. But on we go!

Sorry about that, I thought it was funny because it fit the original discussion (kindof) and happened right after I read it.

I didnt expect all this discussion to follow.

Originally Posted by CrunchyNuts

Your chance of hitting on the next card ('cause you're going to have to pay more on the turn, no question), is 2/47. In theory here, you're putting $4 to gain $130, you need 4/134. Comes out to be 4.255% vs 2.985%, which does, in fact, give you the odds to call...but it's close. And it assumes that you will, every time, get their entire stacks. Tougher call then it would seem.

Yeah, I wouldnt have called even another $2.

It was very close (thats why I calculate my odds with excel.. only takes a couple seconds that way)

For my all time stats (27K hands) i am -0.01BB/hand but for my last 10K at 100NL i am up $224 or 0.27BB/hand so definitely worth playing. Thats from a total of 424 PP's <JJ

after about 120k hands

I am +0.58BB/hand for PP < JJ

Originally Posted by Laeelin

Btw, What do you classify this as?



I was 90% sure I had the worse hand on the flop after the reraise, but I decided to call because there was so much money to be won if my 3rd king hit... only like a 5% chance, but I waas sure that if it hit I would take both stacks.. so i called, and got the perfect card.

AI on the flop, eh?

-'rilla

Are you paying attention to your implied odds from the PFR with these small PP's.....

You cant go around calling big raises against short stacks with low PP's, the big stacks have to be there so when you do hit you can take mucho dinero....the implied odds just are not there with short stacks.

Thats the only thing I could think would help.......

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

AI on the flop, eh?

The HH is in the thread and implied odds were calculated yo~

i'm sure i read somewhere that you only call with good odds on a big raise with a pocket pair!

I just try not to get heads up with a pp unless its just a call or not much of a raise.
As for big raises 5xbb+ im looking for other action for better odds (and a nice big ass pot)

cant remember my stats for pp's but they look goot damn goot

I quit calling large raises with pairs smaller than 7s. You are 10 to 1 to hit your hand but the implied odds are good, however with a small pair you HAVE to hit a set to win the hand and even if you do there is always the possibility of a higher set.