Whats up with the check/call check/min-raise?!

At the lower stakes No Limit I have countless times in the past experienced the insanely overused check/call on flop and check/min-raise play. Usually this means villain has a really really strong hand. Some players are so obvious in doing this with sets etcetera that I have on rare occassions actually even laid bottom set on non straight/flush-boards. About a year ago I almost ALWAYS laid down some very strong holdings against this play becuase I KNEW they had me beat. I had numerous time tried to "keep them honest" and their monster hands kept smacking me right up. Therefore I concluded this move was always a sign of strenght.

Bust just recently (maybe its just me being plain ass ignorant and stupid who haven't noticed before) I discovered a lot of people "knowing people knowing this" and overuse this "move" as some kind of bluff. Just yesterday I noticed one player doing this several times. 1 or maybe 2 times he showed legitimate hands but many more times he used this as a bluff! The same guy sits down the table and does this exact play against me. I was very suspicious about this move, and while I usually would have let my hand go, this time I didnt. The result is seen bellow, and is quite a hilarious outcoming of the hand to say the last, LOL!

***** Hand History for Game 3412734198 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, January 21, 20:26:03 EDT 2006
Table Table 66381 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button

Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: Bomber_Gerd ( $77.55 )
Seat 6: texca ( $117.30 )
Seat 1: Gridlock_ ( $105.25 )
Seat 4: Tranibob ( $128.61 )
Seat 5: cropduster37 ( $148.20 )
Seat 8: bigsmilee ( $96.50 )
Seat 10: john3624 ( $67.37 )
Seat 2: Kurt4 ( $83.95 )
Seat 9: domonic1 ( $96.02 )
Seat 7: morissa ( $80.35 )

john3624 posts small blind [$0.50].
Gridlock_ posts big blind [$1].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to Gridlock_ [ Kh Kd ]
Kurt4 folds.
Bomber_Gerd folds.
Tranibob calls [$1].
cropduster37 folds.
texca folds.
morissa folds.
bigsmilee calls [$1].
domonic1 folds.
john3624 calls [$0.50].
Gridlock_ raises [$6].
Tranibob calls [$6].
bigsmilee folds.
john3624 folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 6h, 9h ]
Gridlock_ bets [$12].
Tranibob calls [$12].

** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
Gridlock_ bets [$20].
Tranibob raises [$40].
Gridlock_ calls [$20].

** Dealing River ** [ Kc ]
Gridlock_ checks.
Tranibob bets [$25].
Gridlock_ is all-In [$46.25]
Tranibob calls [$21.25].

Tranibob shows [ 8d, 8h ] three of a kind, eights.
Gridlock_ shows [ Kh, Kd ] three of a kind, kings.
Gridlock_ wins $209.50 from the main pot with three of a kind, kings.

By they way, In retrospect I know my turn bet was quite weak... Actually my intention was to keep the pot down a little, but then it went all around the other way...

At 25nl on Paradise I run into a shitload of players who minraise bluff. If you feel like they are being too obvious and don't have it, call and trap. Make note if you see a person min raise and then fold/lose a hand.

it wasnt a minraise bluff though, it was a min raise w/ a set of 8's. a very dangerous slow play given the texture of the board, but not a bluff by any means.

No I know it wasn't a bluff, In my post I just explained my reasons to (as shown, incorrectly) to call him. I wasn't a bluff but I believed it was.

Until I was shown the light, this was my default way of playing flopped sets. I'm sure a lot of players still do it.

I have played sets like this against semi-aware players (who wont just go allin with TPTK) and I have played bluffs like this against even more aware players who will fold TPTK. I think this is one of those places where you have to watch individual opponents very carefully to find out what this play means.

Originally Posted by finky

Until I was shown the light, this was my default way of playing flopped sets. I'm sure a lot of players still do it.

Whats "the light"?

Enlighten me.

Originally Posted by iRICHeyes

Originally Posted by finky

Until I was shown the light, this was my default way of playing flopped sets. I'm sure a lot of players still do it.

Whats "the light"?

Enlighten me.

Leading/raising the flop (esp. with draws ot there). Definatly no min raising. Playing back against there hand range / style and trying to get it all in ASAP.


copyright Fnord

Originally Posted by finky

Originally Posted by iRICHeyes

Originally Posted by finky

Until I was shown the light, this was my default way of playing flopped sets. I'm sure a lot of players still do it.

Whats "the light"?

Enlighten me.

Leading/raising the flop (esp. with draws ot there). Definatly no min raising. Playing back against there hand range / style and trying to get it all in ASAP.


copyright Fnord

I love this approach, and I really don't care if they know I do it. Then I nail them with the nutz when I play that hard and they don't believe me.