Quote Originally Posted by lambchopdc
I understand what you are saying Irish. However, there is a difference between the following two statements:

A. As a rule, when you have TPTK on the turn and you are raised, you are most likely beat, you should fold.

B. You have TPTK on the turn, your opp. raises you. At the stakes you are playing, this is a safe spot to fold without a very good read. Your opp. could have a set, or two pair. As you develop in your game, you may find that folding here is not the correct play. There are many situations where certain players will raise you here with hands you beat. However, until you have played enough hands to be able to spot these situations, it is a good idea for you to avoid marginal spots like this and find better spots to get your money in.

Do you see where I am going with this? Statement A locks a player into a way of thinking. Statement B inspires thought and theory at the same time as protecting the beginner from losing all of their money. My problem with AOK telling a beginner that as a rule if he wants to play a marginal hand in late position he should raise 10x then bet huge on the flop again, is that its written in format A. It doesn't tell the player why, it doesn't say how this gains value. Frankly I would like to know how, because the only hands calling you have you crushed.

Advice given in format A is very dangerous and when taken the wrong way, can hurt a player more than it helps. Advice given in format B develops a player's rational thinking and will help them in the long run.
You cant seriously be suggesting that someone who has decided to put in the time and effort to find FTR because he has decided to really get good at this game will develop a slightly profitable low stakes game and then just stop improving because when he first started he was told not to put his stack in with TPTK. Unless we are talking about someone who is seriously stupid to the point of not having a chance at this game anyway, ANYONE will throw the starting hand chart away at some point once they get comfortable enough with the basics.

Im betting a huge portion of FTR started playing with a starting hand chart telling them what to raise and what was ok to call preflop, and telling them that 2 pair was an ok hand postflop. Im guessing that many of you printed off a pot odds chart.
Id be very suprised if even a small minority of players who have been playing a year or more havnt started throwing in the odd hand or two off the chart by now.
I think a starting hand chart, and a pot odds chart would help anybody sitting in their first poker game. I also think you need to give people WAY more credit if you think they will stick rigidly to the chart for the rest of their life just because someone showed it to them once.

You start with solid rules and then over time you begin to develop a feel for when it is necessary to bend the rules. AOKs rules are clearly intended as a foundation. Thats why they are in the begginner forum.