Was I a Donk in this hand

I played a few orbits while eating breakfast before work. I was playing on my laptop without Poker Tracker so no stats, but he was pushing small stacks consistently for the 15+ hands I played.

Full ring .25 BB

Villain ($39) button
?? ($12) SB
Hero ($6) BB

Hero dealt As Jh
6 folds, button raise to .75, SB folds, Hero calls

Flop 5s 8s Qs ($1.75)
Hero bets $1.00, Villain calls

Turn 10d ($3.75)
Hero checks, Villain shoves All in, Hero ??

Fold or make a stand with 12 outs ??

just c/shove flop, then learn how to play with a full stack

What iopq said.
In addition you should concentrate on making profitable calls and don't worry about "making a stand against the bully". Feeling a need to punish any particular player is nothing but a form of tilt.
To learn how to calculate whether an all-in call is profitable, click this:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...in-t87954.html

Thanks for the advice and the link ... I bought in for $10 and lost to earlier draw. I have done well in 25NL with short stack ... Afraid to change it

Not to sound like a dick, but you are the scum of the earth. I don't get short-stacking. I really don't. You get no value from good hands whatsoever, no implied odds, no respect, you don't improve, you can't play the turn, you sure as shit can't play the river, variance is gross, etc. The only thing you have is fold equity. Buy in full and learn how to play real poker or go play turbo SNGs.

Nutty - Thanks for the positive feedback I agree its not a good long term strategy for me_ but I find it very profitable over the 2500 hands so far.

A normal night for me consists of 2 $5 sng with 2 short stack 25?' tables to keep me occupied while I wait for good hands or the blinds to go up in the sngs.

Real poker ? if short stacks are so bad at Real Poker wouldn't you want them in ur game? Are you just tired of them taking ur money?

I sit with shortstacks and take their moneys. Regardless it's not about me, it's about you. Obviously shortstacking NL25 is not going to make you any serious money, so why do it?

Originally Posted by Sam62

I find it very profitable over the 2500 hands

[x] small sample and completely insignificant

Originally Posted by Sam62

Are you just tired of them taking ur money?

Not at all. I don't like when I have the nuts on an aggro player who's 16bb deep on the flop. I don't like how shorties give me shitty implied odds (like I said - you do have fold equity). By playing short, you are denying everyone else at the table (with a full stack) to play deep stack poker - the way cash games are supposed to be played. It's not that shorties put deep stacks on tilt, because they don't. We just don't like you. It's like an annoying little bug that keeps flying past your face every 10 secs. You swat it repeatedly and miss, but eventually you flatten and kill it. To me, this is short-stacking in a nutshell.

Look, short-stacking can be profitable but like you said, it's not a good long-term solution as you're not learning how to play past the flop. It's either go all-in or fold. You don't learn how to play draws or put players on ranges. It's retarded. It's like playing a turbo SNG with using IMC strategy and constantly determining your M value.

This has been described at great lengths on this forum before, so I'll leave it at that. In regards to the hand, FWIW, check/raise the flop AI against a BU c-bet.

I am a casual player who is aggressivly learning. I am very restricted on the amount of time I get to play. I have found on Full Tilt during late night happy hour I do well with short stack. I have a BR of just under $100 so buying in for the full would be to risky. I know there are so many things wrong with what my reasons are, but that is what I choose to do.

I don't have time to grind 10,000 hands per month. I get 3-4 hours per week all late night. I trade sleep for poker

I enjoy SnG and MTT and try to win my small buyins back with cash games.

nutty people shortstack because it allows you to be profitable without thinking very much

Originally Posted by Parasurama

nutty people shortstack because it allows you to be profitable without thinking very much

durrrrrr ya think? lulz

well when you said you don't "get" shortstacking I assumed you meant you don't know why people do it, sorry to insult your intelligence

I do appreciate the advice and plan on posting more hands and learning more and more here at FTR. I recently bought into 25NL with near full stacks and did get value for my goods hands.

I made $25 in 50 hands .... I know small sample, and hot cards - I don't expect this all of the time, but I am avoiding short stacking (even though it was working for me )

The reason I jumped up to 25NL was to help clear the Full Tilt $100 bonus. (I know once again not recommended) I am about to clear my 4th $10 and am taking it down with me to full stacking 5NL.

I will keep you posted ...

Nothing wrong with people shortstacking. If you get irritated by shortstacks they're probably doing something right. Theres no law says everyone needs to play the same. Most sites not have 'deep' tables which have higher minimum buyin amounts if you want to avoid them.

Yea most, if not all short stacks below the high stakes are free money anyway. OP needs to understand that this does nothing for his long term game. Getting what seems to be more profit to move up with no skill to beat the level your at now is just going to have him spin his wheels as he runs into more and more people that aren't afraid of a short stack. He's just going to go broke and learn nothing. Even short stacking at $10NL on a $100 bankroll is a road to busto, let alone $25NL, so when he comes back asking what happened we can say "told you so"

The reasons for not short stacking are valid, the reasons for referring to a shortstacker as scum of the earth are not.

Tbh there's like a reg. shortstacker at each FTP 50NL table now. They actually know what they are doing. So I have to say that shortstackers are scum. I used to be one so I can say that. The deep tables are cool but barely any play and most who do are just regs.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

The reasons for not short stacking are valid, the reasons for referring to a shortstacker as scum of the earth are not.

They're scum-shorties because their either bankroll degenerates or they double-up and run for the hills. Would you ever invite a person to your home game that does this? Hell no. Why? Because it's bad etiquette. Degeneracy and lack of etiquette are enough of a reason to label them scum at the poker table.

You guys make it sound like these hit and runners are making tons of profit and stealing your money. There are very few that stick around and make any money. There are several on this site alone that have tried and wallowed in mediocrity for a year or two. We have one high stake short stacker that is making considerable money. These guys are nobodies and it is easy to beat them. All I can say is never let them sit on the left, don't call raises if they are in the blinds and just play tighter. They require FE to make the game profitable but if you only get involved with good ranges they are free money.

Originally Posted by Nutty McMutt

Originally Posted by bjsaust

The reasons for not short stacking are valid, the reasons for referring to a shortstacker as scum of the earth are not.

They're scum-shorties because their either bankroll degenerates or they double-up and run for the hills. Would you ever invite a person to your home game that does this? Hell no. Why? Because it's bad etiquette. Degeneracy and lack of etiquette are enough of a reason to label them scum at the poker table.

Degenerates make the online world go round and etiquette is for the most part non-existent other than between regs. A little online research will show you that there are some very popular affiliate sites that are actually training and rolling beginning players to start out as short-stackers. Anything that stocks the fish pond with totally exploitable new fry is fine by me.

A lot of full stack players don't like short stackers b/c they force them out of their comfort zone and to play a different game than they're used to -- despite the fact that short stackers are almost invariably net donators. Learning to gambool with them a bit and not fold good but vulnerable hands for small effective stacks can make you a lot of money. They bluff too much when they miss not to be ready to catch.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

The reasons for not short stacking are valid, the reasons for referring to a shortstacker as scum of the earth are not.

this. lol at mcmutt goin' nutty. seems like a dissonant set of ethics for someone with the goal of making a considerable amount of money off of other people's addictions to be so concerned with "etiquette"

EDIT: next thing you know, you're gonna be criticizing people for c/r'ing

the problem with decent shortstackers is that they resteal way light and that fucks my high ATS because my range is nowhere near strong enough to call off a resteal most of the time