Using your outs

I'm playing right now and have lost two large pots to garbage. That being aside and trying not to punch my computer I'm looking back and figuring out why these morons made the play they made.

One guy told me he had lots of outs, which was true looking back at the hand - he had about 10 so he had good odds to call even though I was betting very strong at him. The other guy was just a maniac that called me putting him all in with a gutshot straight draw and hit a higher pair (I had pocket jacks and he hit a king on the river with K3o).

So I'm thinking about outs right now and want to know what people think are a good amount of outs to make a call? Are you looking for purely an amount that support the pot odds? Or do you look at a hand and say "okay, I have more than 5 outs - call".

http://www.flopturnriver.com/start_pot_odds.html

I think that pretty much covers it; and always remember will the other guy stack off when the 'scare' card hits?

It comes down to more than pot odds and thats where it gets tricky. You have to figure Implied odds, fold equity and +EV plays.

The biggest Implied odds and +EV plays for me have always been playing pocket pairs and hitting a fullhouse on the turn or river. Even though I don't have lots of outs to hit, I'll still call strong bets because when I do hit, (especially at my limits) the donks tend to do things like go allin at the river.

obviously it has to come down to implied odds. If you are calling an allin then obviously those are the same as the pot odds.


on a board of :Tc: is fun

Originally Posted by Pelion

obviously it has to come down to implied odds. If you are calling an allin then obviously those are the same as the pot odds.

What I meant was, if you hit your full house, the villain will still keep betting (some go all in) on their TPTK, straight, flush, etc.

Ponyboy, don't get distracted because you lost there. They made a bad call and you did the right thing, but got a bad beat. If you let this get to your head you're gonna be making bad plays lateron. Stay calm about it, they will pay you off most of the time.

If you have a bunch of outs, you have to take into account how many of them might be "real" - this is easier to do if you can pin your opponent on a hand. For example, say you have a sc and a flush draw and a pair on the flop. Now you have 9 outs to a flush, 3 outs to 2 pair, 2 outs to trips. If your opp has overpair, then you have 14 clean outs.. if he has a set then you only have 9 that will give you a winner - and then still he has outs to a boat!

But anyway, calling on just a bunch of outs is generally a bad idea. It's better to be the one raising/pushing with outs if you have fold equity.

Originally Posted by Pelion

obviously it has to come down to implied odds. If you are calling an allin then obviously those are the same as the pot odds.


on a board of :Tc: is fun

flopalicious...

Originally Posted by jackvance

Ponyboy, don't get distracted because you lost there. They made a bad call and you did the right thing, but got a bad beat. If you let this get to your head you're gonna be making bad plays lateron. Stay calm about it, they will pay you off most of the time.

Don't worry, I knew that it was a bad beat and stayed at the table and got some of it back. Turns out the guy that did it was a retard maniac who lost about $20 on a 10NL table in five minutes by making stupid calls like that. Problem is I'm the only person he sucked out on for a big pot! Arg...but he's on my buddy list so I'll get it back sometime. Thanks for the advice.

Originally Posted by ponyboy

One guy told me he had lots of outs

Don't they all?

I've actually been a little chasy of late myself after getting payed off on the end for my chase a couple times.