Typical session: start slow and then catch up

I have noticed a pattern in my chash games (at buy in levels from $4 to $100) where I'll start off losing about 30% of my chips early and then go into a mode where I'm winning back my losses and continue to make profits. This is a very consistent pattern and I'm wonderinng if anyone else is seeing the same. I have a feeling that the first 20 or so hands are difficult for me as a I build up reads on the plrs and the table. Once I get my read I can then play efficiently and start pulling in the chips.

Any way I can impove this?

If you're like me (and it sounds like you are) you're doing some or all of the following:

Calling/raising in marginal situations to see how people react;
Playing too many good-but-not-great hands which you end up having to fold;
Playing low suited connectors etc. before you've got enough reads on your opponents to be confident with them;
Folding more than you would do normally because of uncertainty as to how the table is playing;
Limping in with your first blind, getting second pair and ending up $5 down cos you didn't just quit when you should have.

Any of that seem accurate?

happens to me aswell, i nearly always go down a frustrating ammount of my buyin before starting to win. and on ocassion i make an apalling read and drop the whole lot.

To improve on this i've started playing like a rock for first 30 mins or so.
AK, AQ, and any pp. AQ only from LP.

This sets me up to bluff the more observant players in later hands and then when the moment is right, show a bluff. The action increases. i loosen up a bit, (start playing suited connectors and other marginals, Ax suited, AJ/KQ/KJ from LP.) hence get paid off for the big hands.

I play a much lower limit than you i think, so i cant say that the same applies at a higher level due to my lack of expierience playing there.

Marginal calls against tight players, and marginal raises or bluffs against calling stations.

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Marginal calls against tight players, and marginal raises or bluffs against calling stations.

This sums it up well. Without reads on plrs I can't play my usual game
and wind up making small mistakes which accumulate. Ofcourse, the
table doesn't have a read on me either so there are occassions when
I've taken huge pots with AA or a straight on my first or second hand.

I guess I need to play extra tight until I can pick up enough reads or
develop a good enough image so that my aggression is respected.

Originally Posted by biondino

Folding more than you would do normally because of uncertainty as to how the table is playing

this has me written all over it. i'll overbet my second pair from the button after it's checked to me, hoping to pick it up right there, but someone with a big stack calls. then i make a large continuation bet on the turn, only to get checkraised for my whole stack. is he making a play on me? if so, i can't raise back at him, i can only call. did he slowplay a set/2pr? what's going on? without a read, i have to lay it down and suddenly i'm down 1/2 my stack. and big stack thinks he can beat me up now.

ChezJ

Originally Posted by ChezJ

and big stack thinks he can beat me up now.

ChezJ

I actually don't mind this situation at all... I call it "training my opponents"... I'll let them come over the top a few times and I'll fold, looking weak... they think they can push me around... then I burn their ass later and double up when I catch a real hand. (It's like giving your opponents a false read) This is a routine of mine that happens almost every session...

I think it's almost pretty standard to drop down at least 20% of your stack while you feel out the table. Either that happens, or you catch a couple of real hands right off the bat and start out running...

Just don't get involved until you develop some reads. If your advanced enough to create reads in the first place, then you should be patient enough to allow them to develop.

That's really why you play anyway isn't it? There's nothing like having the book on someone and calling their bluff off with 3rd pair to scalp em when the guy with 2nd pair folded to the heat on 4th street

Happens to me as well. Probably cause I havent got any reads from the players so far. One solution would be to start playing with just 1-2 tables and then after 15mins of play increase the amount of tables to 3-4.

Another thing that happens to me too often is that I build a nice stack and then after an hour play or so my pretty stack starts to decrease. For some reason I start to raise with more speculative hands way too often and seek for action. Hence I have started to make my ring sessions shorter and try to be more concentrated and patient.

When I join a new table i behave like a maniac. i hrow my chips around with marginal hands, raise with nothing, take on big stacks with stone cold bluffs.

I lose quite a large potion if not all of my stack early on a lot.

But, I behave like this 'cos I want the able to think of me as a maniac. When I've cooled down a little, many of he players will still have me tagged as a maniac.
I turn on the aggression again with strong hands only and hey presto, I've doubled through a coupla times.
Sometimes I've already doubled through with terrible play...which is great for my image Everybody wants to take me down then, and the stack keeps growing.

It is risky play but, I am usually in for the long haul when i sit down to play...so losing a little to benefit later is fine by me. I'd say I finish my sessions 70/30 winning/losing

Originally Posted by Pingviini

Another thing that happens to me too often is that I build a nice stack and then after an hour play or so my pretty stack starts to decrease. For some reason I start to raise with more speculative hands way too often and seek for action. Hence I have started to make my ring sessions shorter and try to be more concentrated and patient.

I have the same problem sometimes. Seems like you get to a certain point, get stagnant for a while, then slowly drift back down. All about discipline I think. Switching the wrong gears at the wrong times, or calling someone down with your marginal hand cause you can afford it. This is an area of my game that I'm trying to get a handle on, and figure out wtf is going on.

Boyoback, I do not think that kind of approach is beneficial to anyone. Losing ones money is never a good thing, I and I am sure that you can get a table image with cheaper price than a great portion of your stack. And on the top of that, if you dont play at the higher stakes, say at least 1/2 NL your table image doesnt affect that much to the decisions your opponents make .

nothing worse than sitting down at a limit table, and dropping 25 BB in like, 10 minutes...

Originally Posted by Pingviini

Boyoback, I do not think that kind of approach is beneficial to anyone. Losing ones money is never a good thing, I and I am sure that you can get a table image with cheaper price than a great portion of your stack. And on the top of that, if you dont play at the higher stakes, say at least 1/2 NL your table image doesnt affect that much to the decisions your opponents make .

I think you're wrong and right. Building a bad image and then exploiting it is a legitimate strategy. I've tried it a couple times, and it can work well. It's not the right strategy for me unless conditions are real tight. It does work better at higher stakes.

What you have to understand when doing this, is it has the effect of erasing your reads. You build a bad/loose image, have someone come over the top of you when you hold two pair, you go all in and PRESTO, they take your whole stack with a set. You thought they were playing your image, and deduced your two pair were good. If your image was tighter, you would know your two pair are no good.