TPTK on a Hideous Board?

[shyguy03533]

I open up for 3x, 2 players call, Flop comes TPTK for me on a real dry ugly board, I bet, 1 folds, 2nd calls, then opens turn??

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($19.84)
Hero (UTG) ($27.46)
UTG+1 ($8.34)
MP1 ($25.24)
MP2 ($9.40)
MP3 ($25)
CO ($19.38)
Button ($18.35)
SB ($4.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, J
Hero bets $0.75, 4 folds, CO calls $0.75, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 4, 3, J (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Turn: ($4.35) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero calls $3

River: ($10.35) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $10.35,

[STHollywood]

i wouldnt really classify this board as hideous in a general sense. I think what youre reffering to is that it intuitively feels hideous.

My point is, this guy played pretty passive on pre flop and then ont he flop, and then he is betting into you almost pot and then pot. To me this looks like this guy has J8. But, also what type of player was he. If he was particularly loose and passive we can add in 84 and 83 and A8. Anyway, if you see where im going with this...Its a fold IMO

[shyguy03533]

i personally thought it was a flushdraw that missed, ill post the results after a few more opinions

[kevster]

Typically, I'm folding this pre-flop. I'm also betting the flop harder.

I think the rest of the hand depends on the type of villain (and therefore the potential range) we're up against. If you have no stats or reads then it's a pretty clear fold on the river.

[kmind]

Fold preflop. Postflop depends on reads but you need to bet the flop. It's kind of interesting vs. an unknown. J8 makes a lot of sense but seems like he'd bet the river smaller. No really other J makes sense. He could have been slowplaying with AA/KK. AhKh is in his range. 43 that got counterfeited works as well. A set COULD play like this but meh. I think betting flop makes this hand a lot easier to play.

[bigspenda73]

Yea PF is definitely a fold for me, this is typically a set/draw line, his bet sizes make me think he's value-betting the turn+river. Typically when someone doesn't get as much money in on earlier streets as they'd like their river bet will be pot-sized+. His line matches up with 33/44/8hxh/fd's

question is would he pot a missed fd on the river?

[shyguy03533]

Well heres the final play out for u guys...


ShyGuy03533 calls $10.35
*** SHOW DOWN ***
geco76 shows [Ah 7h] a pair of Eights
ShyGuy03533 shows [Ad Js] two pair, Jacks and Eights
ShyGuy03533 wins the pot ($29.50) with two pair, Jacks and Eights

[bigspenda73]

what makes you think we need to see it

[GatorJH]

I think so we can line up and pat him on the back for his amazing soul read. Is the line behind you Spenda?

[shyguy03533]

actually i just thought if you invested time to answer my question, ud want to see the result?

I actually expected people to say 'wow thats a terrible call ur lucky'

such friendly boards...

[drtofu66]

I appreciated seeing it.

Yeah yeah-- results don't matter, blah blah-- but I like closure.

Plus I was wondering if a busted FD does that at 25NL these days. Now I know.

[notoriousnf]

I'd call it down but hate to see the set that he turns over.

[Fnord]

Raise turn for value please.

[Monty3038]

Yea PF is definitely a fold for me, this is typically a set/draw line, his bet sizes make me think he's value-betting the turn+river. Typically when someone doesn't get as much money in on earlier streets as they'd like their river bet will be pot-sized+. His line matches up with 33/44/8hxh/fd's

question is would he pot a missed fd on the river?

That is something I'm having trouble determining. I don't know this opponent and would not normally expect someone to pot a missed flush draw on the river. With more information though this picture becomes much clearer. Spenda, any thoughts on a more generic rule of thumb for players we don't have specific reads on... such as a nit I would never expect to pot this river, but a calling station or very laggy player I would? Is there something we can do to narrow that likelihood down more?

[ColdDecked]

Flop: I'd bet more on the flop. Somewhere around 70%-pot. $1 into a $2.35 pot is too small to chase away any draws.

Turn: I'd raise for value, and to see where I'm at. Somewhere along the lines of $7.5-8.5 would be good. If he has a set or twopair, he'd probably shove.