Top Set OOP on Mono Flop, Multiway

If you were to lead the flop, I can't imagine a scenario where either of these players is going to have a calling range that is ahead of you.

It's probably worth noting that if they both call, then as long as you have more than 33% equity, your flop bet for value was +EV.

You only need 50%+ equity for a value bet to be +EV in a vacuum if you're facing one opponent. Against n calls, you need 1/(n+1) equity. For example, against 3 calls, you need 1/4 = 25%+ equity. People who play fixed-limit games probably understand this better. It's the same reason why you'd raise with four to a flush in seven card stud on fourth street against five opponents who were all in for a single bet already.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

If you were to lead the flop, I can't imagine a scenario where either of these players is going to have a calling range that is ahead of you.

It's probably worth noting that if they both call, then as long as you have more than 33% equity, your flop bet for value was +EV.

You only need 50%+ equity for a value bet to be +EV in a vacuum if you're facing one opponent. Against n calls, you need 1/(n+1) equity. For example, against 3 calls, you need 1/4 = 25%+ equity. People who play fixed-limit games probably understand this better. It's the same reason why you'd raise with four to a flush in seven card stud on fourth street against five opponents who were all in for a single bet already.

Stud tip of the day: If you have four to a flush you are pretty much only behind two pairs, better flushes or trips/quads even heads up on fourth but obviously this doesn't take away from your point.

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

Stud tip of the day: If you have four to a flush you are pretty much only behind two pairs, better flushes or trips/quads even heads up on fourth but obviously this doesn't take away from your point.

ldfo using an extreme example for bc morans

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

It's probably worth noting that if they both call, then as long as you have more than 33% equity, your flop bet for value was +EV.

You only need 50%+ equity for a value bet to be +EV in a vacuum if you're facing one opponent. Against n calls, you need 1/(n+1) equity. For example, against 3 calls, you need 1/4 = 25%+ equity.

Thanks spoon; this is great stuff

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

If you were to lead the flop, I can't imagine a scenario where either of these players is going to have a calling range that is ahead of you.

so what would UTG be calling with here?

if we go with the AA-88,AKo-AJo,KQo,AKs-A2s,KQs-K9s,QJs-Q9s,JTs-J9s,T9s,98s,87s PF range (do we?), that gives him 160 total combos, of which (OTF):-

9 Nut Flushes
6 non-Nut Flushes
1 baby Flush

15 Overpair + FD combos
15 Overpairs

6 TopPairs
6 88
6 Weak Pairs

12 Nut Flush Draws
18 Non-Not Flush Draws

3 OESDs

i'da thought a sizable lead would rep a lot of strength, and fold out his TopPairs, 88, Weak Pairs, OESDs and non-drawing Overpairs. Yes? No?

Which leaves him continuing with:-

9 Nut Flushes
6 non-Nut Flushes
1 baby Flush

15 Overpair + FD combos

12 Nut Flush Draws
18 Non-Not Flush Draws

or 36% or his holdings. OK so far?

EDIT: these are holdings i think he's either calling w/ or raising for value. ah huvnae included any bluffs. is this a mistake?