tight ass fold

120 hands on villain, stats are 30/10/1.3 with 4% 3bet PF

I assume his 3betting range is a little tighter since I raised from MP and he 3-bet from BB.

Range is probably like TT+, AQs+, AKo

Flop cbet his whole range i think.

Turn hes continuing with TT+ here, 50% equity vs this range. Worse if he has 88 or 99 in his PF range

If I'm right about his range, and I call turn, stacks are probably going in on the river. Also can just put it in now since his whole range is calling. Such a marginal spot to play for 140bb imo, fold?

input on PF range -> turn range progression?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($10)
Button ($10.27)
SB ($6.66)
BB ($18.53)
UTG ($10.77)
Hero (MP) ($6.96)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, Q
1 fold, Hero bets $0.20, 3 folds, BB raises to $0.62, Hero calls $0.42

Flop: ($1.26) 9, 8, 5 (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($3.26) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero folds

Total pot: $3.26 | Rake: $0.21

I'd put him on a tighter range since we are still in EP and he's raising OOP and he's just a tight player so far. I'd put him on QQ+/AK. On the turn I think he only continues with QQ+/AcKc and this is our equity vs. that range:

Code:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

   3,476  games     0.001 secs     3,476,000  games/sec

Board: 9d 8c 5c 8s
Dead:  

    equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied    
Hand 0:     09.954%      09.32%     00.63%                324            22.00   { QQ }
Hand 1:     90.046%      89.41%     00.63%               3108            22.00   { KK+, QdQh, AcKc }

Even if he has like JJ I doubt he's always almost potting it on the turn like this.

is 30/10 tight at 5nl?

10% PFR is tight in 6max

I probably 4bet this pre and fold to a shove. I can fold if he flats the 4bet and then pots/shoves the flop, though it gets tricky if he checks over. Dunno, I don't think I play QQ very well, so perhaps I'll keep an eye on what people have to say.

Just a question on tracker or hold 'em manager... the pf stats aren't "merged" are they? That is, if you've got, say 100 hands on Dave1967 at 6max and 200 hands at FR, will the tracker stats shown only relate to the table format? Also, how does it work if you're playing 6 handed at a full ring table?

Originally Posted by OngBonga

I probably 4bet this pre and fold to a shove. I can fold if he flats the 4bet and then pots/shoves the flop, though it gets tricky if he checks over. Dunno, I don't think I play QQ very well, so perhaps I'll keep an eye on what people have to say.

He can fold the bottom of his 3 bet range to a 4 bet and continue with the top end. This leaves us in pretty rough shape against his continuing range. If his 3bet PF stat and PFR were higher a 4bet would make sense, since we'd still be over 50% vs his 4bet calling range. Flatting makes even more sense if we think we can make good decisions post flop when stuff like this happens.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Just a question on tracker or hold 'em manager... the pf stats aren't "merged" are they? That is, if you've got, say 100 hands on Dave1967 at 6max and 200 hands at FR, will the tracker stats shown only relate to the table format? Also, how does it work if you're playing 6 handed at a full ring table?

Theres options on the hud to only show stats for a given player range. ie. you can set it to show stats for 7-9 players, 3-6 players and HU. It will filter the stats, and only show those relevant to the current number of players at the table.

Or you can just stick to one, I only play 6 max. My win rate suffers switching back and forth.

Originally Posted by tyrn

He can fold the bottom of his 3 bet range to a 4 bet and continue with the top end.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I think I like to 4bet QQ because so often the 3bet is AK, or even AQ, but AK we're still significant favourite against if we're deep, because he needs to hit the flop, not us, it's not a flip if he isn't seeing a turn and/or river. But, of course, as you can probably imagine, while I win a fair few decent size pots playing QQ like a maniac pf, I also pay off KK/AA fairly often. I rarely pay off AK though (apart from the 50% pre flop all ins beats of course), and since it's against AK more often than AA/KK, I'm still showing a decent profit with QQ, but lower pairs are more profitable for me, so something is wrong.

As for sticking to one format, I prefer to play 9 handed, I seem to win less at 6max. I sometimes play 6max mtts, but I don't do so well once the maniac fish are gone. I do well early by playing tight and letting the idiots run into my big hands, but this doesn't work later because I pretty much suck at 6max, probably because I still snap-fold K9 and such junk. I play well 4 handed and less, but the 6-5 handed area is not my comfort zone.

I would hope that tracker does indeed filter out different-format stats, obviously one would expect looser play shorter handed, so it would skew the stats if they were merged. That was why is asked really. I'm not sure if poker tracker consider a 6-handed game on a 9-seat table as 6-handed or 9-handed though.

if his range for betting this flop is TT+, AQs, AK, then think through the merits of raise/getting it in on this flop vs calling flop and folding turn

Due to his passiveness preflop I don't think we see TT here very much at all and wouldn't give him all JJ combos. Given this, getting it in on the flop is going to be meh. Hand looks good to me as played.

my point is that if his range is TT+, AQs, AK, then he has an identical amount of value hands that are behind us as behind us and a lot of combos of drawing hands (let's just call AQs, AK draws). from a theoretical standpoint, this gives us two sensible options based on reads:

1) raise/get it in (we assume that a fish is never folding an overpair so we are at worst 50/50 against his felting range, and are sometimes ahead of a stubborn AK, and price out 3/6/12 out draws)

2) call with the benefit of letting him bluff into us on blank turns and/or getting away from the hand on bad turns. this is a good line to take against aggros

using this logic, the three ingredients of giving him a range of a) TT+, AQs, AK, b) flatting the flop and c) folding to a bet on a turn blank isn't optimal from a theoretical standpoint.

i tend to give him more of a range of JJ+, AJs, AQ+ (this is probably something like his 3rd 3b in 50 opportunities, so he's prolly not someone who never 3b's unless they have QQ+, AK), which makes postflop a little less of a straightforward logic puzzle