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 Originally Posted by strawman
The scenario I listed inidcated I wasn't heads up.
I' m comfortable with probe and continuation bets. If I want to see where I' m at I'll throw out a probe bet. If I put in a raise pre flop I' m likely to throw out a continuation bet even if I don't hit simply because I was the pre flop raiser and not because I' m trying to bluff at it. Sure it might be a -EV play for the hand but poker is long term. If I raise pre flop and only bet the flop when I hit and check/ fold when I miss does that make pre flop raising a leak since now my opponents have an excellent tell on my part.
You seem determined to fit all the scenarios that have been discussed here into three neat and tidy categories and I think that is a leak.
I've never said that I advocate a "bet only when you hit" approach. If you bet when you have nothing then you are bluffing. Call it a "bet because I was the pre-flop raiser" or whatever else you want but you are trying to bluff.
 Originally Posted by strawman
Sure it might be a -EV play for the hand but poker is long term.
If a play is -EV for that hand then it is -EV every time you get into that situation in the future. If it's -EV it's always -EV. That is what the long term is all about, making the most +EV decisions as possible. Just because you take down a pot doesn't make the play +EV. Do you think you can make -EV decisions that magically become +EV in the long run?
 Originally Posted by IrishGilly
In a way, isn't "betting to see where you're at" like a c-bet? You're giving yourself a chance to take the pot down right then and there, and if you get called, it's " fold to any action if I don't improve." Granted if you're putting feeler bets out all the time an aware player will see it, but if used in the right situation against the right player it's just a bluff with the worst case scenario of you gathering information.
Generally when you c-bet you want your opponent to fold because you have nothing. In a way ahead/way behind situation (which is the situation I am saying people shouldn't be betting/raising in) you don't want your opponent to fold because if they do then you were so far ahead of them that really the only way you would make money in the hand would be to let them take a stab at it. You don't want them to call either so this is why you shouldn't bet in that situation. A bet is -EV either way.
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