Theory - Equity and Pot Odds facing 2 all ins

I got into an interesting hand today and it made me realise that I am lacking some theory in these spots so I thought I'ld post it up in BC, because a good answer probably belongs here.

In this hand the button and small blind are both huge donks. BB is a semi-decent reg who squeeezes a lot. He knows I am raising relatively wide in the cutoff but probably won't squeeze with total trash because of the donks, so I am initially estimating a wide value range(something like ATs+, AJ+, KQs, 99+). So I 4bet as I am holding blockers and try and induce a fold.

When he shoves I reckon his range is JJ+/AK only, so if we are heads up then the 3:1 pot odds would make this a call. But here the button has also gone all in. His range will include a lot of aces so my equity has reduced.

How do I go about figuring out the odds I need to call here?
(edit: obv I can do this in poker stove after the event but, am looking for a quickie shortcut to use in the heat of battle...)

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($19.65)
SB ($71.70)
BB ($50.95)
UTG ($50.75)
MP ($60.10)
Hero (CO) ($50)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A, Q
2 folds, Hero bets $1.50, Button calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB raises $7, Hero raises $17.50, Button raises $18.15 (All-In), 1 fold, BB raises $43.45 (All-In), Hero folds but doesn't know how to estimate odds / Eq quick enough)

Originally Posted by HiLo

I got into an interesting hand today and it made me realise that I am lacking some theory in these spots so I thought I'ld post it up in BC, because a good answer probably belongs here.

In this hand the button and small blind are both huge donks. BB is a semi-decent reg who squeeezes a lot. He knows I am raising relatively wide in the cutoff but probably won't squeeze with total trash because of the donks, so I am initially estimating a wide value range(something like ATs+, AJ+, KQs, 99+). So I 4bet as I am holding blockers and try and induce a fold.

When he shoves I reckon his range is JJ+/AK only, so if we are heads up then the 3:1 pot odds would make this a call. But here the button has also gone all in. His range will include a lot of aces so my equity has reduced.

How do I go about figuring out the odds I need to call here?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button ($19.65)
SB ($71.70)
BB ($50.95)
UTG ($50.75)
MP ($60.10)
Hero (CO) ($50)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A, Q
2 folds, Hero bets $1.50, Button calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB raises $7, Hero raises $17.50, Button raises $18.15 (All-In), 1 fold, BB raises $43.45 (All-In), Hero ???

Ok, I'm not too sure, but don't you need to work out your equity in $ for the side pot vs BB, and also work out your equity in $ for the 3way pot (taking away the side pot) then add them up?

OK, from the side pot vs BB's JJ+ AKs, AKo you have 28% of $60.70 and from the main pot vs BB's JJ+, AKs, AKo and Buttons TT+, ATs, ATo+ (???) you have 19% of $58.95

So total equity is $16.97 + $11.20 = $28.17 and you are calling $32.50, so fold.

And after I'd worked that out you ninja edited me!
Well I wouldn't be able to do a quick calc in my head, I don't think many would, I'd just call / fold depending on my mood lol, most likely fold.

Father Ted

pretty sure I'm in b4 how to analyze calling an all-in.

4bet is meh. But blockers or no blockers, you're dominated almost always and the other times you're racing with JJ or lower.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-173396.html

Originally Posted by StarGrinder

4bet is meh. But blockers or no blockers, you're dominated almost always and the other times you're racing with JJ or lower.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-173396.html

Forgive me if I am being obtuse but where in the thread you linked does it explain how to take a side pot into account?

Quickie shortcut? Fold AQo in a 3way all in. /thread.

No but seriously, AQ SUCKS in this situation. Yeah, you might have 28% equity against one person's range of JJ+ AK but 3way pots change everything. Just to put it in perspective, if you give the BB a range of:
42s,32s,42o,32o

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.811% 23.96% 00.85% 3783204504 134754796.00 { AQo }
Hand 1: 54.074% 53.22% 00.85% 8404078104 134754796.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 2: 21.115% 20.97% 00.15% 3310862712 23431168.00 { 42s, 32s, 42o, 32o }

Personally, I don't even think the reg shoves JJ here which gives you even less equity.

Originally Posted by Donachello

Quickie shortcut? Fold AQo in a 3way all in. /thread.

Yeah, or this.

Originally Posted by Donachello

Quickie shortcut? Fold AQo in a 3way all in. /thread.

No but seriously, AQ SUCKS in this situation. Yeah, you might have 28% equity against one person's range of JJ+ AK but 3way pots change everything. Just to put it in perspective, if you give the BB a range of:
42s,32s,42o,32o

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.811% 23.96% 00.85% 3783204504 134754796.00 { AQo }
Hand 1: 54.074% 53.22% 00.85% 8404078104 134754796.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 2: 21.115% 20.97% 00.15% 3310862712 23431168.00 { 42s, 32s, 42o, 32o }

Personally, I don't even think the reg shoves JJ here which gives you even less equity.

I think you missed the point of my post. I was asking how to analyse this kind of situation (i.e. equity calculation when there is a side pot) not discuss the specifics of the example hand.

Comments like "Fold AQo in a 3way all in" are neither helpful to myself or others reading this thread, when I am trying to talk about general theory. I explained that I folded in the OP because I knew the pot odds of ~3:1 were only good against his range if we were heads up. If the stack size of the BB was smaller this would have been a call, but how do we go about working it out?