Test

you'll also see people saying you should never value bet when you're behind your opponent's calling range, which is also incorrect

OK, let me try to come up with one example of that: we're up against an opp, and in his range he has two hands which each have 26.5% equity against ours and one hand which has 100% equity against ours. He only calls with his strong hand and folds his draws. So we're crushed by his calling range. However betting can be +EV, depending on the amount we bet. Say the pot is $20. We have $5 behind. We bet. He makes a mistake when he folds a draw because he has 26.5% equity with his draw while he is facing 16.7% pot odds. So we gain from his mistake:

EV of checking down the hand:
0.6666*0.735*$20=$9.8

EV of betting:
0.6666*$20-0.3333*$5=$11.66

Is that what you had in mind?

Note that to maximize our EV, we should bet the smallest amount that will induce him to fold his draws, up to a maximum of $10.6. Beyond this, checking down the hand becomes better.

who cares WHY we bet if betting is a win win situation?

why are you making up these unrealistic situations, narrowing villains range to 3 hands, 1 hand etc, shouldn't you be focusing on fixing your real leaks instead of trying to be a poker philosopher?

show me a guy who folds his draw to a 1/4 psb and if he is, it is so easy to beat him you dont need to calculate the EV outcome or we, just bet, shut down when he calls and get it in w the nuts. (obv. it is never that simple, cos they start playing back)

just seems like a waste of time.

Originally Posted by middleburn

who cares WHY we bet if betting is a win win situation?

why are you making up these unrealistic situations, narrowing villains range to 3 hands, 1 hand etc, shouldn't you be focusing on fixing your real leaks instead of trying to be a poker philosopher?

show me a guy who folds his draw to a 1/4 psb and if he is, it is so easy to beat him you dont need to calculate the EV outcome or we, just bet, shut down when he calls and get it in w the nuts. (obv. it is never that simple, cos they start playing back)

just seems like a waste of time.

Knowing why you're taking the action you are is one of the most important things you can do to get better at poker. Just because betting is a win-win situation does not mean that checking is worse.

It's not unrealistic to narrow a Villain's range to just a few hands. Additionally, the use of specific examples makes it easier to illustrate how poker works, and understanding how poker works in these specific examples makes it easier to understand how poker works when you're dealing with more complicated situations.

There are people who fold their draws to small bets, just like there are people who call with their draws facing huge bets. Also, you aren't able to decide how to play against a person who folds their draws to small bets without evaluating the EV, so it's ridiculous to say that thinking about the EV is unnecessary to know how to play against any opponent.