Taking risks against passive players

After reading some advice here I've started giving players at my level a little (a lot?) less respect. The question is, have I gone too far?

Because of the number of times they call it's hard to tell if they're slow-playing a monster or just fishing for that elusive card.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 =#A500AF(Villain)/ ($4.70)
MP1 ($5.41)
MP2 ($14.37)
MP3 ($10.44)
CO ($3.89)
Button ($6.29)
Hero ($3.37)
BB ($5.24)
UTG ($5.02)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J. Hero posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls $0.04, UTG+1 =#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $0.04, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.04, MP3 calls $0.04, CO calls $0.04, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $0.28, 1 fold, UTG folds, UTG+1 =#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $0.26, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.26.

At this level it seems that callers can having anything from AA-Qxs at this point.

Flop: ($1.06) T, K, J (3 players)

Okay, scarey flop, so I make a moderate bet for information.

Hero bets $0.5, Villain calls $0.50, CO folds.

It's possible he's got a hand and is trying to trick me into staying in. More likely he's not got a K and is waiting. I'd guess he's got clubs, or a straight draw.

Turn: ($2.06) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.9, Villain calls $0.90.

I can't seem to get rid of them by giving bad odds, so I give another half-pot-ish bet. He follows along.

River: ($3.86) J (2 players)
Villain calls $1.67.

Great. If he's got the king I don't care any more. It's not a club and the straight is not possible. So, the only possibility is the flush. If he has the flush that means he called my flop bet with three cards to his flush. Unlikely, so I go all-in (the converter seems to have missed my bet) and he calls.

What do you think?

Final Pot: $5.53

Have you looked at he may possibly be holding Q9, QA, JT, or KJ?

I put him on maybe KJ at best. He maybe also on a QA offsuit as well. Even if he was on a flush draw, you should push a 2/3 pot bet on the flop as it won't be worth it for him to call if (like in this case he would'nt of hit it).

Also your bets are not even half pot bets.

Originally Posted by Anosmic

After reading some advice here I've started giving players at my level a little (a lot?) less respect. The question is, have I gone too far?

After just reading this line, I would say: very likely. The reason is that I have seen it in myself that when I make a "new discovery", I tend to take it to too much of an extreme.

Because of the number of times they call it's hard to tell if they're slow-playing a monster or just fishing for that elusive card.

I used to have problems with that too in the past, but I don't anymore now. If I see a guy put his money on TPLK with a lot of scare cards on the board that could beat him, then I simply know that in my future calculations with this guy in the hand, I need to add a bigger range of cards to what he might likely be holding. When playing vs a player who knows how to value his hands properly, I can narrow this range down. That's the only difference.
(this "how highly a player values his hand" property is in my experience the main thing you need to know about a guy, and has a lot less to do than you might think with how tight/loose a player is)

Okay, scarey flop, so I make a moderate bet for information.

I think $0.50 is not a good idea here. When you are first up, either you have to make a raise that will put the flush-hunters (quite possible with 2 people in the pot) at bad odds, or you simply have to check. A moderate bet here really tells you very little if it gets called. I'd bet $0.70 or $0.8O here. If someone calls that, either they have something, or they are chasing their flush/straight with bad odds.

It's possible he's got a hand and is trying to trick me into staying in. More likely he's not got a K and is waiting. I'd guess he's got clubs, or a straight draw.

A higher raise on the flop would have given you more definite information when this guy calls. For one you could worry less about them chasing a draw and a crap low pair hand.

I can't seem to get rid of them by giving bad odds, so I give another half-pot-ish bet. He follows along.

Not easy to know where you're at now.

Great. If he's got the king I don't care any more. It's not a club and the straight is not possible. So, the only possibility is the flush. If he has the flush that means he called my flop bet with three cards to his flush. Unlikely, so I go all-in (the converter seems to have missed my bet) and he calls.

I don't understand why you would go all-in here. You don't know where you stand.. he'll only call with a hand that has you beat most likely. So it's better to just 'check' here. Atleast you'll get some info on what he has. If he was gonna fold to your all-in, you probably win too if he checks after your check. If he raises you below your stack amount, I think you have to call due to the odds here. If you lose, you have something left. If however he pushes you all-in.. not sure how much your stack % is towards the total pot, but then you'd have to do some calculations to decide between fold or call.

Sorry, don't feel much like doing the calculations for this particular hand at this point, just played 2 hours and I'm a little tired (up $15 single table 10NL, so it was good).. so it's more general comments I made.

At this level theres really no need to be putting so much money in on 2nd pair. I'm assuming you won with trip jacks.

10NL an below in my opinion is essentially all about nut camping. Make the nuts and bet it. That's really all there is to it. These levels are really only useful learning the basics, discipline and building your bankroll. Just know that once you get to 25NL and above play is significantly different. There won't be 6 people seeing a flop every hand.

Originally Posted by Stagemn

Have you looked at he may possibly be holding Q9, QA, JT, or KJ?

I put him on maybe KJ at best. He maybe also on a QA offsuit as well. Even if he was on a flush draw, you should push a 2/3 pot bet on the flop as it won't be worth it for him to call if (like in this case he would'nt of hit it).

Also your bets are not even half pot bets.

I forgot one key hand..... KK.

All in all, I think you have only 3 hands that trully beat you.... KK, KJ, or AQ. I think you may of gotten him to fold everything except maybe AQ or KK, with a pre-flop raise to $0.36. If you bet 3/4 pot on flop, this would give you a clear indication whether he trully has a hand or not. If he calls, it's a check-fold at the turn and onto a new game.

Originally Posted by jackvance

I don't understand why you would go all-in here.

Because the pot is almost $4 and we both have around $1.60 left total.

Originally Posted by Murd0c

At this level theres really no need to be putting so much money in on 2nd pair. I'm assuming you won with trip jacks.

Actually no. He had A4s, which didn't surprise me. They were spades, which did.
He actually called the first bet with just an overcard and three cards to a flush. Basically from that flop he needed two running spades or two fours to beat me.

I accept that I didn't give him as bad odds as I should have with my bet (although his odds were just awful, as it happens). Perhaps I should have taken it easier with such a band hand, but after he just called my bet on the flop I was fairly confident I had a better hand.

I felt I only had to worry about a flush or straight hitting; but unfortunately I was worried about clubs, not spades!